Wastes: Rend - Blue Requested

Barbarian
I understand the reasoning behind putting Rend on the Wrath of the Wastes set. You don't want the players literally just holding one button the entire game while maybe clicking the occasional buff.

However... Rend is SO WEAK that no one uses it. The end result of the Wastes set is that players only hold down one button the entire game while clicking their buffs.

(yes, some do use Ancient Spear to reposition Elites, but that doesn't exactly change the gameplay much, dragging Elites is tedious and every class does it)

So if the logic behind putting Rend on the Wrath of the Wastes set was to break up the monotony of using just Whirlwind and to semi-quote: "make the player feel vulnerable" at certain moments, why is Rend rendered so weak and unusable?

I'm really confused why Rend doesn't have a huge bonus incorporated into the BK set or the WW6 bonus.
Agree with everything you're saying and it is sad how neglected the skill is especially with all of their talk about 'philosophical belief' that it belongs as part of the set. I'd love to see them drop rend from the set bonus and instead of the added damage for the 4 piece maybe something like 'Battle Rage now gains the effect of every rune'.
All they had to do was add it to 6 piece bonus damage, if needed lower the 2 piece bonus afterwards. Rend fits thematically into Wastes (you deal a lot of small, fast cuts, you should leave enemies bleeding, from pure fantasy point of view), but it is completely useless as is. We finally got the mitigation fix last patch, to retain some damage deduction for brief moment after stopping WW, let’s fix rend please.

Please.

Pretty please.

We are asking for that simple fix for years now.
A Rend bonus to BK sword would be the best fit.
12/20/2018 07:31 AMPosted by DieHarder
A Rend bonus to BK sword would be the best fit.


No. With waste set rend needs to be viable damage or simply force us to use it to do even more damage with bleeding mobs. Outside of the skill runes it has.

About the only okay rune to use right now is the healing rune or the increase damage.

They already took 1 set forward with making the dr last 3 seconds vs when you stop to whirlwind it went away.

Every build needs to play fluid. With how the set forces you to play it.
12/20/2018 08:11 AMPosted by Dmoney
12/20/2018 07:31 AMPosted by DieHarder
A Rend bonus to BK sword would be the best fit.


No. With waste set rend needs to be viable damage or simply force us to use it to do even more damage with bleeding mobs. Outside of the skill runes it has.

About the only okay rune to use right now is the healing rune or the increase damage.

They already took 1 set forward with making the dr last 3 seconds vs when you stop to whirlwind it went away.

Every build needs to play fluid. With how the set forces you to play it.


Well, let's ask Jako how he would incorporate it into BK's, since he suggested it (and agree with it).

Jako?
Looking at some other items and skills in the game, and then looking specifically at what Bul Kathos gives you (Fury Regen), something interesting could be

- Expend all remaining Fury when casting Rend, but increase the damage by 100% for each point of Fury spent.

This would cause you to have to stop Whirlwind momentarily when using Rend, which fits the original design intent of the set. It would be a huge nuke and DoT attack.

However, seeing as the developers have clearly moved away from that design philosophy, you might as well just make it a simple multiplier such as the following:

- Increase the damage of Rend by 100% for each point of Fury you have
Bottom line is, Rend does not provide any worthwhile utility. It provides next to no damage above like T6. With Whirlwind now getting a 10,000% multiplier, Rend's damage becomes even more inconsequential.

Pain Enhancer basically does more damage than Rend.

Why is Rend on the set if it serves no purpose?

Introduce something that gives it a purpose. Whether it be utility or damage.
We all know Rend currently serves no purpose in the Wastes set. But with a few simple tweaks, it could work really well.

Let's be honest: dumping an extra 10,000% Rend damage in the 6-pc bonus isn't going to make Rend viable. It's a good place to start, but it's not enough. As a DOT skill, Rend is designed to work with two-handed weapons so every damage tick is significant. Used with fast one-handed weapons, Rend struggles to do worthwhile damage.

WW doesn't have a nuke, a scaling damage mechanic, or an efficient means of single-target DPS. Rend needs to do something along those lines. And it needs--needs--to come from a supporting legendary.

IMO, the best way to address this would be to get introduce 2 new legendary items and buff Lamentation, but it could be done simply through a single new legendary. Since we're just riffing here (Blizzard is unlikely to ever address this problem), let me jot down some ideas.

Item 1
    * Weapon to replace Furnace
    * Scales Rend damage with either # of bleeding targets (faster rift clears) or monster HP (better single-target DPS)
    * Scaling Example: Rend deals 80-100% increased damage per second per bleeding enemy in 30 yards.
    * Single-target Example: Rend's damage per second is increased by 9-12% of a monsters maximum HP.


Item 2
    * Ring to replace COE
    * Creates synergy between Rend and WW
    * Example: Whirlwind deals 250-300% increased damage to Rended enemies.


Lamentation buff
    * Further buff the utility of Rend in the build
    * Example: Keep the stacks and add: Each stack of Rend increases its damage per second by 100%.


You get the idea. You could also borrow one of Evil's better ideas and slap 30% DR on Lamentation when there's a bleeding mob nearby, then give us a new bracer to replace Parthans. Or you could let the Rend stacks increase our attack speed, which would allow us to drop PE for another DPS gem (Trapped).
Or, you know, Rend could scale with APS with the set...I mean, the faster you rotate, the deeper the cut.
Rework Madawc's Sorrow as the Rend weapon. I'm pretty sure it's power was supposed to provide survival when stopping to Rend, the problem was the "...first time you hit them" was made useless by dust devils hitting before you even got near.
12/20/2018 10:43 AMPosted by Jako
Looking at some other items and skills in the game, and then looking specifically at what Bul Kathos gives you (Fury Regen), something interesting could be

- Expend all remaining Fury when casting Rend, but increase the damage by 100% for each point of Fury spent.

This would cause you to have to stop Whirlwind momentarily when using Rend, which fits the original design intent of the set. It would be a huge nuke and DoT attack.

However, seeing as the developers have clearly moved away from that design philosophy, you might as well just make it a simple multiplier such as the following:

- Increase the damage of Rend by 100% for each point of Fury you have


I really like the Fury dump, but I feel that it would be even clunkier than just have to cast Rend and would make the play less fluid when having Fury to regenerate. Maybe an 80% dump with an increased value per Fury point to compensate.

12/20/2018 01:55 PMPosted by Nubtro
Or, you know, Rend could scale with APS with the set...I mean, the faster you rotate, the deeper the cut.


This sounds good as well.

Free idea are good too, but less likely to happen.
12/20/2018 01:55 PMPosted by Nubtro
Or, you know, Rend could scale with APS with the set...I mean, the faster you rotate, the deeper the cut.


Wouldn't fix the damage issue. It's still based on weapon damage per tick and one-handed weapons just don't cut it (pun intended) with Rend.
Whatever you think would work with 2-Handed weapons, just double it for 1-Handed weapons. At a certain point, you can make the math work, even for 1-Handed weapons. Whether it's 100x the damage or 1,000x the damage, I think the developers have shown they don't care slapping ridiculous multipliers on items.

We could theory craft for months, even years, oh wait, we already have, on how to come up with cool items and cool ways to make Rend viable. At this point, I would be highly surprised to see such mechanics introduced.

Rend has always made little sense for Wrath of the Wastes. It never did enough damage to go well with Bul Kathos 1-Handed Mighty Weapons. It used to get players killed because stopping Whirlwind could lead to instantaneous death in high GR difficulty.

But now, it just makes absolutely no sense. I mean zero.

Simple solution in my opinion? Make it pack a punch.

Add Rend to the Wastes 6-Piece Bonus. Then after that, add a bonus to the BK Swords to finalize where Rend should be at.

But honestly, I'd just like a Blue to come here and explain Rend's purpose on the Set now that the original design philosophy is so far gone.
This isn't World of Warcraft where the community managers are involved and interactive on the forums daily. Hell not even weekly. Monthly if you're lucky.

So, stop asking for blues, they are busy working on Mobile games. Activision is busy cutting cost. Therefore, they cannot afford the expense of a community manager for Diablo. Move along.
I'm for scaling DR based on enemies affected by Rend and WW dealing increased damage to enemies affected by Rend, but that's just me.

Still not gonna happen though.
I say:

Add Rend to the 6pc bonus and add a affix (cubable or not) to a 2h weapon (Skorn, Blackguard or Zweinhender IDC) that makes Wastes a 3 way to play set:

- you can use BK swords, just ww and ignore Rend (as we play now)

- you can play BK and use both WW and Rend

- you can play a 2h rend focused build (with some fix for fury starvation on that build)

We could use a bracer with legendary affix too.

That would make Wastes much cooler in my opinion. Look how much flexibility we have with MotE. It would be fun if Wastes some flexibility aswell.
I may be wrong , but I don't think they are going to give us anything new in items this time around which sucks . And Rend has been dead for a long time . And that sucks too . Nothing much in store as everything seems to be focused on their new en devour , Immortal . We'll see , but I think it's wishful thinking and we are beating a dead horse like always . I want to see some positive changes . Hell , if they're not going to buff Rend , which no one can use , why do they even keep it ? Either fix it or replace it with something worthwhile to use .
Personally, I think the WW set and BK swords need to be tweaked because as it stands right now, you basically will never not use BK swords, unless you play Istvans that is. Anyway, here is how I would change the WW set.

In my opinion, WW set should have 2 main playstyles to choose from, the first being the one we currently have where ww does all of the damage, the second being a two-handed build where most of the damage comes from rend.

Note: I may be wrong but I seem to remember rends damage can scale with attack speed. If it doesnt, make it scale.

1. Add a beefy rend damage multipier to the 6 piece set bonus.

This is to ensure that IK rend doesnt out DPS WW rend.

2. Remove the Fury generation from the BK swords and put it on the WW set. BK swords can get a bigger movespeed buff to compensate the fury gen loss.

Why? Because currently you are forced into BK swords for the fury gen, or lightning Istvans for fury gen. Giving fury gen to the WW set will allow players to play with other WW runes without being fury starved, as well as free up weapon options, even though there arent any good ones right now. If players used BK swords, then they have the same playstyle as they do now. Yes, Istvans will become the go to for WW pushing but thats ok in my book.

From this point, introduce a two-handed mighty weapon and a bracer that has some sort of rend utility.

1. Give the bracers some kind of rend utility that is based off of bleeding enemies. Maybe a juiced up version of pain enhancer, that would help a two-handed build, and rends damage would scale some as well.

This would force players to choose between parthans, nems, or rend utility. Also, makes the player consider the legendary gem pain enhancer for super juiced up attack speed.

2. Give the weapon a rend damage multiplier, increased damage scaling up with the fewer enemies affected. This allows for good dps on rift guardians and trash will die at an accelerating rate as they begin to die off.

With the juiced up pain enhancer bracers combined with the new weapon, the second rend will feel a lot stronger than the first, kind of like a nuke.

This will also make the players choose between more damage or more defense with the pride of casius belt.

More choice is always better in my opinion. Anyways, this post was just wishful thinking :)
12/21/2018 04:40 AMPosted by KrrSplat
Personally, I think the WW set and BK swords need to be tweaked because as it stands right now, you basically will never not use BK swords, unless you play Istvans that is. Anyway, here is how I would change the WW set.

In my opinion, WW set should have 2 main playstyles to choose from, the first being the one we currently have where ww does all of the damage, the second being a two-handed build where most of the damage comes from rend.

Note: I may be wrong but I seem to remember rends damage can scale with attack speed. If it doesnt, make it scale.

1. Add a beefy rend damage multipier to the 6 piece set bonus.

This is to ensure that IK rend doesnt out DPS WW rend.

2. Remove the Fury generation from the BK swords and put it on the WW set. BK swords can get a bigger movespeed buff to compensate the fury gen loss.

Why? Because currently you are forced into BK swords for the fury gen, or lightning Istvans for fury gen. Giving fury gen to the WW set will allow players to play with other WW runes without being fury starved, as well as free up weapon options, even though there arent any good ones right now. If players used BK swords, then they have the same playstyle as they do now. Yes, Istvans will become the go to for WW pushing but thats ok in my book.

From this point, introduce a two-handed mighty weapon and a bracer that has some sort of rend utility.

1. Give the bracers some kind of rend utility that is based off of bleeding enemies. Maybe a juiced up version of pain enhancer, that would help a two-handed build, and rends damage would scale some as well.

This would force players to choose between parthans, nems, or rend utility. Also, makes the player consider the legendary gem pain enhancer for super juiced up attack speed.

2. Give the weapon a rend damage multiplier, increased damage scaling up with the fewer enemies affected. This allows for good dps on rift guardians and trash will die at an accelerating rate as they begin to die off.

With the juiced up pain enhancer bracers combined with the new weapon, the second rend will feel a lot stronger than the first, kind of like a nuke.

This will also make the players choose between more damage or more defense with the pride of casius belt.

More choice is always better in my opinion. Anyways, this post was just wishful thinking :)


You don’t use Bk weapons for the fury regen. You use it for the movement speed and attack speed. Other wise the weapons would be useless. And for being mighty weapons they don’t even need the fury regen since you can use weapon master.

The fury regen is just the frosting on the cake honestly.

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