Should GR keys be removed?

General Discussion
First nephelam rifts required 5 keystones,then 1 and then the requirement was removed.Now you guys want to remove the simple requirement for the greater rifts,excuse me but the game is simple enough to want even that thing. What's next full geard character with 8000 paragon insta?!?
i never liked that economies fed into each other. I would like to see them remove some.

standardize on gold and blood shards... remove all other economies (rift keys, uber boss keys and loot)

want to fight an uber boss? pay blood shards. get blood shards as a reward.
want to open a greater rift? play blood shards. want to empower it? pay gold.

the difference would be GRs should always drop the exact same loot table. it should not scale up with difficulty. (the rich should not get richer)

however to offset the lower total loot drops, i would offer higher rank GRs an ability to spend blood shards to upgrade existing gear within its random range.

IE you finish a GR 86, and you can add 8.6% more points to an item... so you have a basic max 650 item and you are currently at 450, you add 8.6% to your chosen stat, now its at 489. for percent stats, it would have a chance to increase 1 or 2 points (depending on if its 1-10 or higher than 10 cap) so a GR 86 would be an 86% chance to raise a specific percent skill by 1 point up to its cap. (nice way to fix that 5.5% crit rating item you have that you had to reroll something else on instead)
12/22/2018 01:00 PMPosted by Demonmonger
12/22/2018 11:54 AMPosted by Dash
How about exponentially increasing the amount of GR stones that drop depending on your Paragon level?

eg:

0-100 : 1x
100-200 : 2x
200-300 : 3x
and so on.

So someone who had 500 paragon levels would get a 5x multiplier to the GR stones that drop (T13 would drop between 10 and 15 GR stones for that player)?

Simple fix to a simple problem.


Nope, more time leading to more rewards is bad.

We need a system where more talent leads to more. My proposal is to make GR's standard where they take no keys, but then as you add keys to the Riftstone, challenges are added to the rift, but with these challenges comes more reward.


Since when are GR Stones "rewards"? lol
Dont go half assed - finish the job:

1. Remove Rifts. Rifts are another tedious chore with minimal reward. The goal of the rift is to quickly finish and obtain stone for Greater Rift. Bonus: removing rifts will remove many bots as some only bot to have butt load of Greater Rift stones so they never have to play a rift. Greater rifts should not require a tedious chore of a rift just to run a greater rift.

2. Remove bounties. These tedious step-and-fetch it chores are blizzards way of forcing us to go to areas in the world we would never go without reward. The worst are when you actually find the area of the bounty, you have to go to the second level and clear the dungeon. Bounties suck so bad, most people do split bounties so they can do the minimum amount of bounties, get the crafting mats, and get the hell out. Then there is always the leecher that sits in town and collects bounties by doing nothing. Removing bounties further makes bots useless, many people bot because bounties are so horrible.

3. Remove Adventure Mode. The story is cobbled together and horrible, a butterfly kills Cain, "Diablo" is now a female demon with boobs. There is minimal reward for story mode. Most new players play it once (or get rushed), then go to adventure mode never to return. 1-70 level rush is 5 minutes.

4. Remove Uber Keywardens. Minimal reward for time expended. Most amulets are garbage and can not be used due to the required set bonuses.

5. Remove Set Dungeons. Nerfing your character and fighting an a way you would never play in a Greater rift is not fun. Gimmicky little mini games that add nothing to game play. Set dungeons are the answer to the request that no player ever asked.

6. Removing 99% of this game that most people dont even play should free us room for more stash space. Dammit give me more stash space, make materials stack to 50,000 not 5000, its a zero blizzard it costs you nothing. With zero build diversity, the space is required for all the sets, then a backup set for when people are enjoying one set too much and it gets nerfed into dirt. Then if you play hardcore also... This game quickly turns into stash Tetris and no room to even pick up items.

7. Change the Name of D3 to "Greater Rift", tell us it was just a joke, because this is not a Diablo game.
12/22/2018 03:19 PMPosted by Dash

Since when are GR Stones "rewards"? lol


i agree;
-also, why are stash tabs 'rewards' from season challenges?!
-everybody needs those, except a few, that will post that very soon :p
12/21/2018 12:38 PMPosted by Mugsy
The OP felt that the opportunity cost of doing lower GRs with lower tier builds relative to their highest performing build is too high. I tend to agree with this. There's still a time cost for doing lower GRs but removing the GR key cost for just these lower GRs will at least mean they're not punished with having to farm more keys for doing lower level GRs with underperforming yet fun builds.


Low is relative and ever changing. The time it takes for you to clear a 70 could be identical to what it takes another person to clear 100. Where is the GR cutoff that determines if there should be a GR key cost? This would be getting needlessly convoluted and so far the only argument I've seen for most players is they do not want keys removed because it would also benefit higher end players running Rats and speed 120+.

Removing keys benefits all players across the board, the fact that some players want it tuned specifically for silly circumstances as to not benefit all types of players is ridiculous.
12/23/2018 10:41 AMPosted by Vdizzle
Low is relative and ever changing.


You didn't read my recommendation properly. I stated that a player's top 10 unlocked GR levels and for any GR from 85+ will require a GR key. A few situations to show what requires keys and what doesn't; the first GR number is the highest unlocked:

- GR60, GR50 and below is free and GR51-60 requires a key
- GR90, GR80 and below is free and GR81-90 requires a key
- GR120, GR84 and below is free and GR85 and up requires a key

The first rule will keep the key requirement relative to how the player is performing so if someone has only unlocked up to GR75, they will need a key for GR66-75. GR65 and below will be free to open. Yes, low is subjective but this will scale to the player's performance and 10 GR levels from the max unlocked level should be flexible enough for anyone's definition of low.

The second rule will ensure that keys are still the gating mechanism for limiting ratruns and fishing when pushing which are typically done at GR90+. Gating GRs with keys from GR85 onwards will ensure that ratrunners don't just lower by a few levels so they take little bit of an xp hit but don't need to farm keys. It will also mean that server stress from endless fishing for the perfect GR map will not get out of hand.

12/23/2018 10:41 AMPosted by Vdizzle
the fact that some players want it tuned specifically for silly circumstances as to not benefit all types of players is ridiculous.


How does this not benefit all players? A high end player can now run really fast GR60s or 70s at a lower empowering cost to level up their fresh gems for augmenting without wasting keys which they can leave for high GR pushing and rat runs.

In fact, if they do GR84 solely which grants 100% gem upgrade chance up to rank 75 gems, and assuming they empower every GR and also don't die for a full 5 upgrade chances, that's 15 keys per gem that they can save in order to get up those gems up to rank 75. For 13 augment gems, that's almost 200 keys a player won't need to farm.
The second rule will ensure that keys are still the gating mechanism for limiting ratruns and fishing when pushing which are typically done at GR90+. Gating GRs with keys from GR85 onwards will ensure that ratrunners don't just lower by a few levels so they take little bit of an xp hit but don't need to farm keys. It will also mean that server stress from endless fishing for the perfect GR map will not get out of hand.

I am not sure what the solution to ratruns is (but it must either involve nerfing the rathma mage build or making other builds more competitive for speed leveling or both), but the solution for rift fishing is actually to make density more even at all maps.
No it would kill T13, No one would play it.

Otherwise they might as well just bring out D4 with a room like Challenge rift, with Kadala, the book, the armory, the chest and the GR portal. "That's it fans! That's all you get! It's all you wanted in D3! You said you didn't want GR keys. So you must have hated NRs. We removed them for you. Just like you wanted. A game that is purely GR runs."

I like Gobs and Gob packs. I like vaults. I'm pissed that they are over so fast and how they are no challenge because of power creep. I think I will play this season because of LoN allowing a sacrifice build to be T13 viable. Or maybe the Bash or Cleave build. But then I'll just be trailing cleaning up because everything else 1 shots. I don't want to just speed run clean up as a game.

Sad really. Power creep destroyed the game and now we can't go back. Everyone would leave if it took 2 weeks to get to end game in a season. "What I have to play and RPG style for more than 6 hours? This sucks!!! I want to GRIND ALREADY!!!! Please make it 2 hours to get to end game. Better yet, just give us end game gear and start us at lvl 70 so we can instantly start grinding."
If the devs removed the need for gr keys that would be one less reason to do regular rifts.

These basic core mechanics will always be here such as the need for a gr key to run a greater rift.

Bounties are there mainly for the use of cube reforge and to craft blacksmith gear that come from plans.

People that don't want gr keys anymore are usually NS type players that are bored to death with the game and are afraid of change.
You realize how boring the game would be with ONLY grfits...

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