Simplest Way to Improve D3? Leaderboard Revision.

General Discussion
04/07/2019 09:30 AMPosted by Rage


Expand the leaderboards! This is a relatively simple change Blizz can make that will essentially generate a huge amount of extra content in the blink of an eye, making things better for players and devs alike.


This doesn't generate jack. Sorry.

There's really no reason for them not to do it.. but no, this isn't extra content by any stretch of the imagination.
04/07/2019 09:36 AMPosted by Orrion
There's really no reason for them not to do it.. but no, this isn't extra content by any stretch of the imagination.


Well, it depends a little on what you mean by "content". In my experience, people basically play the game to get on the leaderboards. But: some sets are way, way better than others, so it means people don't play those "worse" sets very much, or at all. And that's too bad, because some of those sets are very fun to play. Not to mention the fact that competition within that set is perfectly valid, yet we have no way to track it.

So yeah, I think that expanding the leaderboards would significantly increase the number of things that players would enjoy doing within the game. And I do think of that as "content".

In comparison, let's say Blizz released a 6th act to the campaign next week. That would be "content", too. Most of the player base would plough through it in the first couple of days, then probably never touch it again. So if I could choose between those two "content" options, I'd definitely pick leaderboard revision. It's the option that would give us a lot more, for a much longer time.
Makes perfect sense and is a good QoL change for many people
I'd love to say: "Blizzard always implements logical changes like this".
Unfortunately as someone elsewhere mentioned, I doubt they look at most of what is on the forums. :(
LOL yeah improve the game by tweaking a crap feature that doesn't affect the actual game in the slightest.

GG.
As a 98% Solo Demon Hunter player, I am disheartened by the current state of the Leaderboards. When I originally wrote this post, I decided to check the Season 11 Leaderboard to see where I might fit in, and I was astounded to see that the number one spot was a GR102 at a little less than 15 minutes, and the player was at P2941! I was even more astounded that the Season 10 #1 DH was GR104 at 11:11, and the player was P3083! When I checked, that guy had a Primal Cloak, and both his rings, both his weapons, his bracers, and his amulet were all Primal!

Anyway... I would have had to do a GR87 at less than 14:13 just to get on the board at #1000.

Today, at Season 16, the number one Demon Hunter is at GR128 at 14m 29.6s, and the player is at P4799! I would have to do a GR115 at better than 13m 12s just to get on the board at #1000.

The situation brings up two issues: the need for a dedicated Solo only mode, and the need for Leaderboard divisions.

Solo Only Mode
Solo only would require a selection box on character creation, which would limit the character's interaction with other characters in the same way that normal Seasonal characters cannot play with Hardcore non-Seasonal characters, and Seasonal Hardcore characters cannot play with normal Seasonal characters, etc.. The Solo character wouldn't be able to play with anyone else, ever.

If we have a dedicated Solo character, then there must be a Solo Leaderboard where these characters can rank against each other, and not against "Solo" characters who have been developed in a four-man meta-group with Paragon levels in the thousands, and Legendary gem ranks in the hundreds. Solo characters would be compared only to other Solo characters, so players could get an idea of how their characters are actually performing. Non-Solo characters would never be able to place on the Solo Only Leaderboard, even if they play solo and achieve a higher clear than the top Solo Only player.

Leaderboard Divisions
As the game progresses, and more and more players are reaching into the 1000-5000 Paragon range, new and casual players simply have no chance of ever seeing their names in the top 1000.

The solution is the creation of 9 more Leaderboards (for a total of ten), each with 1000 places, and their separation by Paragon level. For example:

0-500
501-750
751-1000
1001-1250
1251-1500
1501-2250
2251-2500
2501-2750
27501-3000
3001 and up

Each player earning a place on the Leaderboard would keep that place, even after moving up to the next Division, until they are bumped off the end of the list by upcoming players.

The beauty of this system is that a player cannot play the game without earning experience points, and thus earning Paragon levels. There is no way any player could artificially dominate a Leaderboard in any Division, because once they moved past the Division, there would be no way they could go back and compete in lower Divisions.

It is conceivable that a single player could appear on all ten Leaderboards, and it is possible that the number one spot would never be replaced if no other player could achieve that level of performance at that particular Paragon level. But everybody playing in that Division would have a chance to.

Conclusion
There is only one way to satisfy the original concept and implementation of Leaderboards; there must be a Solo only mode of play, and there must be Leaderboard Divisions in which players of similar level and power can compete against each other.

Good Hunting!
Since changes like solo-only mode seem to be a hot topic currently, I'm bumping this again. I still think diversified leaderboards would be a good idea that helps many, and hurts nobody.
05/10/2019 11:20 AMPosted by Rage
Since changes like solo-only mode seem to be a hot topic currently, I'm bumping this again. I still think diversified leaderboards would be a good idea that helps many, and hurts nobody.


Rage,
Nice move there, bumping your post after commenting on the solo one. :)

I feel like I see arguments on both side but in the end, I think it would benefit the game and bring a lot more fun to the game with breaking out the leaderboards by sets.

Some people might love a class but hate the top performing solo set/build of that class. If they just play the set/build they love, they might not even have a chance to show up on the leaderboards due to the overpowered set everyone else is using. As faulty as the leaderboards are, the competition is still fun. Hopefully both of our posts can at least get at a response from Blizzard soon, one way or the other. I mean combating all these trolls gets tiring. :)
05/10/2019 11:39 AMPosted by Maximus
Hopefully both of our posts can at least get at a response from Blizzard soon, one way or the other. I mean combating all these trolls gets tiring. :)


Amen to that, brother!
Most people just look for what's best, and then play that. I mostly play MOTE, and it would be interesting to me to have a leaderboard based on that set, so I could actually see how I'm doing compared to other people who may play MOTE, but have overwritten their MOTE clears with other sets.
IMO, this is going to have the opposite of the intended effect. It's going to discourage people from trying new play styles. People like you are going to stick to MOTE instead of trying something different, because you want to stay on that MOTE leaderboard.

People may look at the leaderboard to see what works, but if the want to climb the leaderboard, they need to think of ways to improve upon it or try something different. If they're just doing a 1 for 1 copy of another build, they're always going to be behind.

And frankly, if you want to see more MOTE builds on the leaderboard, it's up to you as a player to find a creative way to make it more viable. What's the point of having a leaderboard for weak builds anyway? Just so you can brag about being the leader of the weaklings? Sounds very self serving.
05/10/2019 04:21 PMPosted by Bloodthroe
IMO, this is going to have the opposite of the intended effect. It's going to discourage people from trying new play styles. People like you are going to stick to MOTE instead of trying something different, because you want to stay on that MOTE leaderboard.

That's very unlikely. I happen to know for a fact that there are plenty of interesting, fun builds (LON Thorns Barb, for instance) that were once popular but are now not played at all because there is a 0% chance of making it onto the leaderboard. Also, being good at one build doesn't somehow make you bad at another build.

05/10/2019 04:21 PMPosted by Bloodthroe
People may look at the leaderboard to see what works, but if the want to climb the leaderboard, they need to think of ways to improve upon it or try something different. If they're just doing a 1 for 1 copy of another build, they're always going to be behind.

This is true maybe... 1-2% of the time, at best. If you don't believe me, take a stroll through the wiz leaderboards and see how many spots AREN'T LON Star Pact.
05/10/2019 04:21 PMPosted by Bloodthroe
And frankly, if you want to see more MOTE builds on the leaderboard, it's up to you as a player to find a creative way to make it more viable.

Lol, you clearly haven't read most of my posts!
12/21/2018 12:49 PMPosted by Rage
The easiest and fastest way I can think of to improve the game at the current moment is to revise the leaderboards for all classes. The overall class leaderboards should stay, but we should also have boards for every class set, LON for each class, no set items, and only yellow/blue/white items.


Wow. This way would make me compete for Leader Board for No legendary item combo. I would feel myself motivated to do it. Best topic i ever seen ever.

So i could play the build i want. Without the sets power creep shi' buff. It would hand player on technique and skill not to rely on set mechanic. Fine alternative. How much Blizz want to do it ? Go on and take all my stuffed wallet.

+ 1
Yeah, you know, I think that the "no set / no legendary" option would really resemble an earlier era of D3 -- pre-ROS. And a LON leaderboard would really harken back to early ROS, when legendaries seemed equal in power to sets, not secondary players.
Or leaderbord splitted by paragon range it would be good too. Paragon 9k can't compete for leaderboard for the social player with paragon 2k.
Even if they just did different sets and LoN it would be enough. No set items is pretty similar to LoN..... just an extra tab for nothing. And.... only rares/blues/whites is pretty petty lmfao. But if they were willing to do it so be it but I think the main tabs needed are sets and LoN. Anything after that is just a bonus.
Here's my solution - I have more use for old fence posts, dandelions and dead flies than I do for leaderboards. That's just me.
Idea for new leaderboards - top 1000 "actual players" instead of cheaters using bots to farm paragons.
Yes, ban waves and solo leaderboard would be top improvements to leaderboards.

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