LON DH?

Demon Hunter
With Legacy of Nightmare buffed - are there LON builds that are viable now? I know there is a strafe build... any creative new ones?
There are not many options, as the new (and old) set bonuses are much bigger than LoN, even with 750%.

I know that just comparing a few numbers is not very accurate, as you can use a lot of useful legendaries with LoN. But most of these legs don't buff the skills used in one of the "set builds" that much. So, if the "set numbers" are much bigger than the "LoN numbers", there is a good chance that LoN is just weaker.

As a rough overview
13x 750% = 9750% more damage with LoN.

UE:
86x 350% = 30,100% >> 9750%
+ UE 4
+ F+R / EW
Therefore there is probably no competetive LoN build based on generators or Multishot.

M6:
5x 12,000% = 60,000% >>> 9750%
Therefore there is probably no competetive LoN build based on CA, EA, Chakram, Impale, Multishot.

N6
2x 14,000% = 28,000% (N4 * N6) >> 9750%
Therefore there is probably no competetive LoN build based on RoV.

With this, we can reduce the possible LoN builds to the following skills:
  • Rapide Fire
  • Spike Trap
  • Fan of Knives
  • Strafe


And unless we find some good legendaries for RF and Spike Traps, there are only two skills left: Strafe and FoK, which leads to "the Strafe build", which then has to be compared more detailed with a N6 based Strafe build (main damage multiplier 14,000% vs. 9750%). But this has to be done by someone else. Tares, maybe? ;-)

Again: This is only a very rough calculation here. Maybe I'm missing something. But I for one wouldn't bet on the discovery of a new hidden powerful LoN build in S16. ;-)
I'm no mathematician but I believe there is no LoN build in the game that can compete with the sets in their on paper damage modifiers. The bit with LoN builds has always been the idea of taking advantage of several items that buff the damage of skills in addition to the set items as well as not being restricted to locking down 5 or 6 gear slots with said set items.
The other thing to address here is the OP's definition of 'Viable'. Are we talking viable as in competitive with other builds in GR pushing or does viable mean something different? If we are addressing LoN builds for T13 rifts or bounties, absolutely there are several builds that could be considered viable.
hey you guys, im actually quite new to thies forums, but i was wondering, if anyone had any input on a LON rapid fire build, using the Bombardment rune, and the hellcat belt, it seems to be doing alot of dmg! since all of the grenades are poppin like popCorn!.

im rather sure theres no insane multiplier for the Rapid fire spell, but still!
12/20/2018 10:54 AMPosted by featuring
hey you guys, im actually quite new to thies forums, but i was wondering, if anyone had any input on a LON rapid fire build, using the Bombardment rune, and the hellcat belt, it seems to be doing alot of dmg! since all of the grenades are poppin like popCorn!.

im rather sure theres no insane multiplier for the Rapid fire spell, but still!
There just aren't enough support legendary pieces for a rapid fire build to be viable. You really need more than 1 item that can help.
12/20/2018 10:54 AMPosted by featuring
i was wondering, if anyone had any input on a LON rapid fire build
The spec works on T13 right now (pre-patch), but doesn't go to much higher. I know wudijo pulled off a GR80 with it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4VrRsLZtSI

I'd use Sin Seekers over fortress ballista though.

I have this LoN RF DH, but its more of a nostalgic spec from D2. Uses Rapid Fire (d2's strafe) and Multishot:
https://us.diablo3.com/en/profile/TastySouP-1157/hero/73466308
I can barely do t13 with it atm, but it will work much better next patch. It will still pale in comparison to UE MS though.
LoN Blackfeather + Death Watch mantle + Death's Bargain + Firewalkers + Andariels + Taskers

Any weapon goes!
12/20/2018 03:06 PMPosted by dmkt
LoN Blackfeather + Death Watch mantle + Death's Bargain + Firewalkers + Andariels + Taskers

Any weapon goes!
dont forget to use ballistics to double blackfeathers damage
12/20/2018 03:56 PMPosted by TastySouP
12/20/2018 03:06 PMPosted by dmkt
LoN Blackfeather + Death Watch mantle + Death's Bargain + Firewalkers + Andariels + Taskers

Any weapon goes!
dont forget to use ballistics to double blackfeathers damage


But of course, bracer and amulet with physical dmg.
Didn't they nerf the Blackfeather proc rate after the Brawling fiasco?
12/20/2018 10:54 AMPosted by featuring
any input on a LON rapid fire build, using the Bombardment rune

I was thinking this as well since the belt and that rune seems like it will be highest FR dps. Although I despise the way the skill looks and channels. Never liked bouncy grenades on any spec.

12/20/2018 11:07 AMPosted by Raziel187
just aren't enough support legendary pieces for a rapid fire build

Tell me about it...it makes me quite sad after 6 years of this game being out they cannot address RF some more, or Ele Arrow.

Found a primal Burizza a while ago and had no idea wtf to do with it; but it's not on my cold RF build I am slowly working on to see how it goes when patch drops. Using the RF weapon in cube of course.

With 44% CDR and Zodiac ring I can keep up perma Vengeance. I lose CoE ring of course. Just not sure how much, if anything RF builds can do; cold or fire versions which have most support items.

12/20/2018 11:30 AMPosted by TastySouP
I have this LoN RF DH, but its more of a nostalgic spec from D2. Uses Rapid Fire (d2's strafe) and Multishot:
https://us.diablo3.com/en/profile/TastySouP-1157/hero/73466308


Took a look at this. Interesting trying to play it the way a D2 bowazon would play. D3 is so centered around 1 nuke skill tho so I'd feel weird alternating between RF and MS.
12/20/2018 06:04 PMPosted by cknopp
Didn't they nerf the Blackfeather proc rate after the Brawling fiasco?
Yeah, that was my bad lol.
12/20/2018 10:54 AMPosted by featuring
any input on a LON rapid fire build, using the Bombardment rune

I was thinking this as well since the belt and that rune seems like it will be highest FR dps. Although I despise the way the skill looks and channels. Never liked bouncy grenades on any spec.

12/20/2018 11:07 AMPosted by Raziel187
just aren't enough support legendary pieces for a rapid fire build

Tell me about it...it makes me quite sad after 6 years of this game being out they cannot address RF some more, or Ele Arrow.
Nah. They can't possibly buff everything. I use Rapid Fire when leveling to 70. It's pretty useful then.

Found a primal Burizza a while ago and had no idea wtf to do with it; but it's not on my cold RF build I am slowly working on to see how it goes when patch drops. Using the RF weapon in cube of course.
The only thing it's really good for is cubing for the UE Grenades build.
12/21/2018 11:12 AMPosted by Raziel187
Nah. They can't possibly buff everything. I use Rapid Fire when leveling to 70. It's pretty useful then.

I think this is a really poor excuse. There is no reason why after 6 years they could not have taken a look at other skills and runes.
Not sure if you're familiar with D2's synergy patch where other skills got more powerful the further you pumped into a skill that otherwise one might not use. I wish they'd finally do something for fun but under-powered skills, especially now that LoN is getting a decent buff. It's nothing without support for poor skills and/or skills that have 0 to no support items.

I'm glad you like RF to level, but leveling in D3 is a complete joke compared to other Diablo games. It's not a factor in this game at all.
12/21/2018 11:12 AMPosted by Raziel187
The only thing it's really good for is cubing for the UE Grenades build.

Oh ya, I'm aware of grenade builds and how some people have cubed this, but I wanted to make use of my primal. Also, as I hate grenade builds and the only piercing rune for RF is lightning (no lightning support items like Frosties/Magefist/Cindercoat) I like that the Burriza can now make fire/frost runes pierce.

Anyways, I know that without more RF support items or a serious buff to the skill it's going to be mediocre still, esp a non-grenade build.

I love RF and it was the first skill I took when I made my DH back when I got beta access for D3. I'm just disheartened after all this time it's still under-powered.
For T13 LoN RF will be decent I guess, if that.
12/21/2018 11:12 AMPosted by Raziel187
Nah. They can't possibly buff everything. I use Rapid Fire when leveling to 70. It's pretty useful then.

I think this is a really poor excuse. There is no reason why after 6 years they could not have taken a look at other skills and runes.
Not sure if you're familiar with D2's synergy patch where other skills got more powerful the further you pumped into a skill that otherwise one might not use. I wish they'd finally do something for fun but under-powered skills, especially now that LoN is getting a decent buff. It's nothing without support for poor skills and/or skills that have 0 to no support items.
Yes I'm aware of D2 patches and that's apples & oranges. D2 is skill driven and skill synergy driven. D3 is item driven. I'm not expecting any changes to skills for D3. This is a different gaming time and a completely different gaming audience than when D2 came out. The consumer as a whole has a lot less patience when it comes to patches, balances, buffs, etc. Would I like to see it, sure, but realistically, probably not going to happen. TBH, all I expected when I heard a new patch was coming was QoL changes. Set buffs were a pleasant surprise and will diversify a lot of top GR clears. Not sure if it's going to shake up the Meta, but we will see.

I'm glad you like RF to level, but leveling in D3 is a complete joke compared to other Diablo games. It's not a factor in this game at all.
preaching to the converted.
Oh ya, I'm aware of grenade builds and how some people have cubed this, but I wanted to make use of my primal. Also, as I hate grenade builds and the only piercing rune for RF is lightning (no lightning support items like Frosties/Magefist/Cindercoat) I like that the Burriza can now make fire/frost runes pierce.
I love grenades. It's my favorite UE build hands down. I like it will be a little more viable with the UE buffs, but we all know MS is going to be the UE build of choice as it always has been.

I love RF and it was the first skill I took when I made my DH back when I got beta access for D3. I'm just disheartened after all this time it's still under-powered.
I was also part of the closed beta for D3. Rapid fire was one of my favorite things to use, but alas, that's not the state of the game now. I get the nostalgia. One of the reasons I love Seeker of the Light for Crusader. It brings me back to the D2 Hammerdin days, although a lot less tanky in D3 vs D2.
I also tried LoN Rapid Fire Hellcats (since I had a primal quiver) on PTR. Sucked.
12/21/2018 02:48 PMPosted by Raziel187
but we all know MS is going to be the UE build of choice as it always has been.

Sigh. Don't get me started on this. I worked on my UE6 set a lot years ago and spent so many mats re-rolling a decent Kridershot b/c I love Ele Arrow, but it doesn't feel nearly as strong as MS.
Again, MS has better support items than EE so I really wish they'd add in a dmg multiplier on Krider bow.

My current cold UE6 build has Frosties in cube, room for MfD talent and a SoJ but I don't think it would keep up with MS in new patch.
12/21/2018 02:48 PMPosted by Raziel187
One of the reasons I love Seeker of the Light for Crusader. It brings me back to the D2 Hammerdin days, although a lot less tanky in D3 vs D2

I might actually try this. D3's hammer animations are cool, but tbh I'm prob going to finish off my LoN Blessed Shield crusader if anything.
12/21/2018 04:22 PMPosted by StoleOwnCar
I also tried LoN Rapid Fire Hellcats (since I had a primal quiver) on PTR. Sucked

Disheartening; but expected...if bouncy grenades are subpar then that means every other RF rune is bad.
I have a primal Sin Seekers are well. Cold arrows + sidecannons look aesthetically pleasing. I might go ahead and augment my Burriza and quiver just so I can at least enjoy RF while doing bounties or something :/
Tested LoN Strafe: Fire/Cold/Piercing. Nothing as good as MS.
Time to bump this with the PTR up... any great LON Builds for the next season?
Imma reach over 115. Cuz im kinda skilled via haori LoN FoK. 118 is max. Crusader can beat over 20 tiers higher. Class balance totaly ruine. Well done Blizz.

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