Tempest Rush.

Monk
Tempest Rush need some love blizzard, this is long over due.

-First of all please give back the 25% base runspeed that was remove way back.

-Second spirit cost is just insane. If you try and add anny +attack speed items spirit cost shoot through the roof, and damage is still bad.

-Third you have to choose between survivarbility or damage and Even if you go all inn on damage it is still poore. And survivarbility is very bad then.

-Four The bracer cesar momento. It is fine that you have to effect mobs with an effect to get the damage bonus, but at least give us a item proc for blind or something.

Please this skill has had no love sinse vanilla d3
there is a belt giving chaos field. it works, used for lvl up
01/25/2019 05:35 AMPosted by Helten
Tempest Rush need some love blizzard, this is long over due.

-First of all please give back the 25% base runspeed that was remove way back.

-Second spirit cost is just insane. If you try and add anny +attack speed items spirit cost shoot through the roof, and damage is still bad.

-Third you have to choose between survivarbility or damage and Even if you go all inn on damage it is still poore. And survivarbility is very bad then.

-Four The bracer cesar momento. It is fine that you have to effect mobs with an effect to get the damage bonus, but at least give us a item proc for blind or something.

Please this skill has had no love sinse vanilla d3


1) Agreed or even increase the movement speed of TR.

2) I've never had problems maintaining TR, even dual wielding, but I usually limit Attack Speed rolls on gear for TR builds. With Inner Storm, dual Air Ally, Epiphany and Hexing Pants, Spirit is rarely an issue.

3) Not sure what can be done except adjusting Mantle of Channeling or Hexing Pants (Hexing would probably be better since Wizard Channeling builds would be even stronger if you change Mantle of Channeling.

4) Agreed with adding a proc chance to the item but personally I wish the bracers procced on targets "hit" with a blind, stun or freeze effect (even if at a reduced level); not a target who is blind, stunned or frozen. Juggernauts and goblins are very difficult for TR builds to kill and are sometimes auto skipped.
The reason i mentioned the spirit cost is because, i am currently playing a TR build where i have flying dragon in box. And i am able to maintain spirit all the time, but it requiers rcr, spirit regen on item pluss 4 skill/passives too maintain.

And the end result is slow movement, bad defance, and Even with all that attack speed it is not Even close to the damage of high teir builds

(I compaird damage in d3planner)
(And i have tested those builds before, alot)
Khord,

I remember you some months back giving me pointers on a LoN TR build and actually wanted to run something by you to see what you thought. At the moment, I am putting together an Inna variant of the build that may have some promise but it is hinged entirely on something I haven't seen anyone else use.

Do you think the cubed effect of Wyrdward can give enough stun chance for consistent Cesar's Memento uptime? I recall you recommending using electric field as the TR rune and figured, if using that rune, why not use wyrdward? The only reason not to is if it isn't reliable enough or some other nerfed element to it that I am not aware of.

Here is a look at what I have put together.

https://www.diablofans.com/builds/103522-s16-inna-tempest-rush

Also, any other issues/items of note you can point out, I'll be all ears. I am currently out of town and won't even be able to start up a seasonal character until half way through February, so everything I have is complete theorycrafting.

Thanks.
Hey, have a Quick look on my TR build using innas. Only seasonal i have. Im on EU server. I run through Gr 70 on around 4-5 minutes.

I have issues with survivarbility, but now i max die once per run.

I have epiphany up 100% no need for wyrdward.

I dont have aincent weapon yet either. But this is the best lightning based TR build i tried.( note! I am not saying that it is the best. Only the best i have tried)
01/27/2019 10:27 PMPosted by Helten
Hey, have a Quick look on my TR build using innas. Only seasonal i have. Im on EU server. I run through Gr 70 on around 4-5 minutes.

I have issues with survivarbility, but now i max die once per run.

I have epiphany up 100% no need for wyrdward.

I dont have aincent weapon yet either. But this is the best lightning based TR build i tried.( note! I am not saying that it is the best. Only the best i have tried)


So, I was going to be replacing the Ascendance rune with Desert Shroud altogether for the survivability issue you mentioned (doing this because it frees up the need for unity if playing in groups and you can use unity on top of that in solo if struggling to survive still). If there is no Ascendance rune, the stuns need to come from somewhere - hence me putting Wyrdward in the jewelry slot. You don't have to do this - I just wanted to explain myself and why I was mentioning Wyrdward.

An extra tip on survivability, the Harmony passive does wonders in keeping monks alive. Try to get gear that have those all-important second resist stats. You want every piece that can roll the secondary resist on it to have it. Also, if you don't have any issues with keeping up your spirit, try mantra of salvation with the agility rune instead of mantra of healing/circular breathing.

Building on that, you will need to optimize your gear more in general. For example, your boots have life regen and movement speed when it could be better overall if you replaced those with Added Tempest Rush Damage and Armor. Also, area damage will be your friend for these channeling AoE builds. Rolling area damage on your gear should help a lot.

I am personally going to play around with the Transcendence passive. Tempest Rush costs a lot of spirit so this should provide a ton of healing and would allow you to roll damage stats on your gear instead of LoH. I would also recommend using either Relentless Assault or Momentum passives (not sure which is better but I am leaning towards relentless assault).

I think I ultimately agree with Khord in that the use of two one-handers will be better overall. I am liking the Inna variant of tempest rush because you can fit in Little Rogue and Slanderer where Sunwuko forces you to use Vengeful Wind. So, for yours, I would recommend replacing flying dragon in your cube for balance and using two one-handers such as Won Khim Lau, Sun Keeper and Sledge Fist until you can get your hands on a well rolled pair of istvan set weapons.

Overall, there is a lot of room for improvement for your gear stat optimization. As far as the pieces, skills and passives to run, this is something I am personally going to try to tinker with as the season goes on. I really believe that the buff to Inna can do a lot for Tempest Rush builds. I don't think they will be on the level as WoL, but I certainly think they can be brought to a level of respectability.
01/28/2019 11:05 AMPosted by Averic
I don't think they will be on the level as WoL, but I certainly think they can be brought to a level of respectability.


You forgot to add "fun" after respectability. Tempest Rush is one skill that always makes me smile. Back in the day when SWK and Inna were both 4 piece sets (and Inna affected Sweepind Wind back then!) I used to love running around with TR spawning SWL clones and using SSS with Madstone to apply EP and blow stuff up (SWK back then buffed EP in addition to TR, LTK and WoL).
As far as Wyrdward proccing Cesar's reliability, I'm not sure. The ring gives a 25% chance to stun and even though Istvan buffed TR has a LOT of damage ticks, it is still only 1 in 4 that will proc a stun. That is the power of the Ascendance rune, everything you TR through gets stunned as long as they don't have CC immunity built up or are immune to stuns. I do like the Transcendence idea though, it's like a permanent healing potion with no cooldown. If I get a chance I'll jump onto a non season monk where my Istvan's are and test it out.
01/28/2019 12:18 PMPosted by Khord
As far as Wyrdward proccing Cesar's reliability, I'm not sure. The ring gives a 25% chance to stun and even though Istvan buffed TR has a LOT of damage ticks, it is still only 1 in 4 that will proc a stun. That is the power of the Ascendance rune, everything you TR through gets stunned as long as they don't have CC immunity built up or are immune to stuns. I do like the Transcendence idea though, it's like a permanent healing potion with no cooldown. If I get a chance I'll jump onto a non season monk where my Istvan's are and test it out.


I would greatly appreciate that! Unfortunately, I am out of town on business and won't be able to test it out myself until at least a week from now (probably two). If you can provide feedback on the results with your thoughts and any recommended adjustments, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Being unable to test this all out since the buffs has been a bit of a bummer tbh.

About Wyrdward - Is it 1/4? I could have sworn it was a bit higher (think 1/3?) Regardless, as you suggested, any element of chance to enable your DPS makes me wary but I think it could be quite a boon if it allows you to use desert shroud instead of ascendance if it turns out to be reliable. I thought maybe if supplemented with blinding flash, it could work out but who knows. I have no idea if there is some type of internal CD in Wyrdward that is relatively unknown or some other shenanigans behind the scenes not explained in the item description. The only way to find out is if it were experimented with and I am infuriatingly unable to do that.
01/28/2019 12:54 PMPosted by Averic

About Wyrdward - Is it 1/4? I could have sworn it was a bit higher (think 1/3?) Regardless, as you suggested, any element of chance to enable your DPS makes me wary but I think it could be quite a boon if it allows you to use desert shroud instead of ascendance if it turns out to be reliable. I thought maybe if supplemented with blinding flash, it could work out but who knows. I have no idea if there is some type of internal CD in Wyrdward that is relatively unknown or some other shenanigans behind the scenes not explained in the item description. The only way to find out is if it were experimented with and I am infuriatingly unable to do that.


I double checked and Wyrdward rolls 25% to 35% chance to stun on lightning damage (so 35% in the cube). It's a bit better at just over a third, but I'm not sure how viable it is.
01/28/2019 11:22 AMPosted by Khord
Tempest Rush is one skill that always makes me smile.


So miss 1.08 tr/bell spam :)

Revert the spirit cost increase!

Restore movement speed!

Fix the TR specific weapons, at the very least, both effects should be on one staff.
So i tried istvan, and changes a few skills, i have ways to go itemvise, but survivarbility is not a problem any more, downed a GR 80,(can't go mutch higher due to lack of dmg) i think i would have done alot better if those bracers would just be a flat damage increese, insted of needing the wyrdward to proc...
01/29/2019 11:55 AMPosted by Helten
So i tried istvan, and changes a few skills, i have ways to go itemvise, but survivarbility is not a problem any more, downed a GR 80,(can't go mutch higher due to lack of dmg) i think i would have done alot better if those bracers would just be a flat damage increese, insted of needing the wyrdward to proc...


Well, if you're doing this solo, stick with Ascendance rune on Epiphany for now and use Unity/CoE/ORotZ trio instead of Wyrdward. I am toying with the idea of using that ring mostly due to my desire of putting a build together that is not reliant on unity. Wyrdward may or may not work well at all but we know for sure that Epiphany - Ascendance does.

Thank you for trying it though! Happy to hear the survivability issue has been resolved (for now at least). One question for you; how often did you see wyrdward proc when you were running rifts? Was it consistent or were you finding Cesar's buff (or debuff? /shrug) not up enough?
Its consistant, but a bit to spread out at times. And the diminishing return on stun is not helping. There realy are alot of conditions that needs too be meet in ordet for TR to work.

I realy hope blizzard can make this TR å bit more viable. With out the season buff......

https://www.d3planner.com/100231999
Well, i tested some more, if i drop wyrdward & go for Acendence And COE, i do better damage, clears a bit faster, but it its alot worse survivarbility wise. Any way i feel dualweild build is better then 2 hander, i will play like this this season, but seriusly they need to change the condition based damage on the bracers, and reduse spirit cost by a mile, so its possible to consentrate on defance, damage & cdr. And up the run speed of TR again, i mean it's called Tempest "RUSH".....
An easy fix for TR builds would be to add "Epiphany gains the Ascendance rune" to the legendary affix on Balance (or some other unused fist weapon). That would basically only be useful in a TR build but add toughness since you could use Desert Shroud while having the stun from Ascendance.
Out of curiosity, does anyone know if the stuns by your follower enable Cesar's? If not, I think I may remove any CC capability on my follower because I wouldn't want them to build up CC immunity on the enemies right? Would just be better to have them passively increase your damage (however minuscule that might be) or something and be a unity mule.

01/31/2019 04:32 AMPosted by Khord
An easy fix for TR builds would be to add "Epiphany gains the Ascendance rune" to the legendary affix on Balance (or some other unused fist weapon). That would basically only be useful in a TR build but add toughness since you could use Desert Shroud while having the stun from Ascendance.


Yeah, TR needs something. I personally am not a fan of the damage revolving around stuns at all. But, if that's the mechanic they want, they need to make it far less onerous on the players to get that CC potential up in a way to guarantee the stun without having to lose too much DPS and DR. I don't mind it not being top tier but it certainly needs the core mechanics around it looked at.

Edit: Added last paragraph
01/31/2019 04:32 AMPosted by Khord
An easy fix for TR builds would be to add "Epiphany gains the Ascendance rune" to the legendary affix on Balance (or some other unused fist weapon). That would basically only be useful in a TR build but add toughness since you could use Desert Shroud while having the stun from Ascendance.


Love that idea!

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