GR level vs torment level

General Discussion
I don't understand why these are so vastly off. GR60 is not equivalent to t13, GR55 is not equivalent to t12, etc.

These really should be changed to match the correct difficulties in the GR selection list. Neither damage nor enemy health match between torment levels and the "equivalent" GR level.
GRs compensate the weaker enemies with greater density. More to kill and more to hit you.
01/23/2019 10:07 AMPosted by Kirottu
GRs compensate the weaker enemies with greater density. More to kill and more to hit you.


A good thought, but pretty much every player knows that a GR60 is much easier than a t13 rift, even with increased density. Although in my experience, regular rifts and GR have the same density. There are a handful of normal rift tile sets that have kind of low density, but most are on par with GR.
They added a rough estimate of where GRs compare to regular rifts because it used to not have that info and people complained about not knowing. This was a thing way back when GRs first got implemented and you had to do the trial area with 5x bounty keys and your GR key was based on the waves killed.
If you look into how GRs scale they're different than rifts and have scaling brackets. You're basically saying you don't like the rough equivalent comparison they've provided because it's not 100% accurate, despite them being different modes that scale differently and there is not perfectly equal T13 Grift level due to this.
If you compare the actual health values though the scaling is the same.
Every 5 levels is a 119.24% multiplier to enemy health. (17% per GR level)
T10 HP - 200,082%
T11 HP - 438,669% (+119.24%)
T12 HP - 961,759% (+119.24%)
T13 HP - 2,108,607% (+119.24%)

However I believe that the T13 actual level is 62 or 63 (note that you unlock 62 when you complete a T13 Rift for the first time, not 60).
01/23/2019 11:32 AMPosted by Dragonmaster
If you compare the actual health values though the scaling is the same.
Every 5 levels is a 119.24% multiplier to enemy health. (17% per GR level)
T10 HP - 200,082%
T11 HP - 438,669% (+119.24%)
T12 HP - 961,759% (+119.24%)
T13 HP - 2,108,607% (+119.24%)

However I believe that the T13 actual level is 62 or 63 (note that you unlock 62 when you complete a T13 Rift for the first time, not 60).


It unlocks a 62 because completing a Torment or GR of a certain level always unlocks 2 GRs above it. So if you complete a GR 80, your new high GR will be an 82.
01/23/2019 11:49 AMPosted by Orrion
01/23/2019 11:32 AMPosted by Dragonmaster
If you compare the actual health values though the scaling is the same.
Every 5 levels is a 119.24% multiplier to enemy health. (17% per GR level)
T10 HP - 200,082%
T11 HP - 438,669% (+119.24%)
T12 HP - 961,759% (+119.24%)
T13 HP - 2,108,607% (+119.24%)

However I believe that the T13 actual level is 62 or 63 (note that you unlock 62 when you complete a T13 Rift for the first time, not 60).


It unlocks a 62 because completing a Torment or GR of a certain level always unlocks 2 GRs above it. So if you complete a GR 80, your new high GR will be an 82.

Incorrect. Completing a GR from with <5min left only unlocks the next level. 5-10mins left unlocks the next 2 GRs and >10mins unlocks the next 3.

And I'll have to check the monster health when you compare the same monster to GR60 to T13.
The whole thing needs to be rebalanced! T13 should not even be anywhere near GR60, more like 80 with 4 guaranteed DBs, GRkeys and a 50% chance for a 5th.
Some patches ago, Blizzard reduced the amount of monster HP in GRifts for solo games and 2-3-player groups compared to 4-player parties. That was done to balance solo play and group play (we all know how well this worked, but that's what they did).

The monster HP in campaign, bounties and normal rifts was not changed.

The result of this change is

a.) for every player joining a game, the monster HP is effectively increased by 100% in GRifts.

b.) the GRift vs. Torment scale is a "little" bit off in solo games and groups of less than 4 players.
01/23/2019 12:22 PMPosted by Hebalon
Some patches ago, Blizzard reduced the amount of monster HP in GRifts for solo games and 2-3-player groups compared to 4-player parties. That was done to balance solo play and group play (we all know how well this worked, but that's what they did).

The monster HP in campaign, bounties and normal rifts was not changed.

The result of this change is

a.) for every player joining a game, the monster HP is effectively increased by 100% in GRifts.

b.) the GRift vs. Torment scale is a "little" bit off in solo games and groups of less than 4 players.


Makes sense and now that I think about it, I vaguely remember something along these lines.
The following equation does not accurately reflect the equation they used to scale health in greater rifts, but serves to illustrate how health could be scaled, where x equals the greater rift level: 0.005x³ - 0.05x² + 0.5x + 1.

Even though this equation could potentially be used to scale health in greater rifts, the equation could not be used to describe how health scales outside of greater rifts (Normal to Torment 13) because they appear to have used a table to define said difficulties.

The reason I hypothesize this, is because if you try to generate a polynomial from the percentage values given between Normal to Torment 1, then Normal to Torment 2, you'll end up with two completely different polynomials.

Why would they use a table to define difficulties (outside of greater rifts)? I don't know, but I'm sure they have their reasons for it. Item combination strength would be my first guess.

"Vastly off" seem to me like an exaggeration. I have no issues with this slight variation in difficulties.
01/23/2019 01:04 PMPosted by Regnant
Why would they use a table to define difficulties (outside of greater rifts)? I don't know, but I'm sure they have their reasons for it. Item combination strength would be my first guess.

Because you're trying to find logic by looking at it today and applying what we have now to what the game was built on. Base D3 had a table style scaling in normal, nightmare, hell, and inferno (infernal? can't remember). Once enough complaints about being 1-shot by ranged attacks from off screen that didn't display in time for reactions they scaled this down some, and then it became "casual" friendly by not forcing you to play a couple specific builds just to kill Diablo.
Once RoS came out they added regular rifts and the T1-6 difficulties. They continued with the same logic of clear bumps that were easy to express in a small chart/table. Once GRs came out (first or second major patch in RoS) they wanted it to scale more aggressively. This has been tweaked slightly over the years but in general GRs are based on a completely different scaling concept than base rifts and difficulties.
You're right. Rare equipment used to be better than legendary, and Torment difficulties weren't implemented back then. Thanks for reminding me.
01/23/2019 12:11 PMPosted by Dragonmaster
01/23/2019 11:49 AMPosted by Orrion
...

It unlocks a 62 because completing a Torment or GR of a certain level always unlocks 2 GRs above it. So if you complete a GR 80, your new high GR will be an 82.

Incorrect. Completing a GR from with <5min left only unlocks the next level. 5-10mins left unlocks the next 2 GRs and >10mins unlocks the next 3.

And I'll have to check the monster health when you compare the same monster to GR60 to T13.


Whatever. I keep finishing in the 5-10 range, I supposed, because they keep opening by 2.

Point still stands - it’s not opening 62 because Torment 13 is 62. It’s opening 62 because it always opens a higher level than what was completed.
01/23/2019 02:32 PMPosted by Orrion
01/23/2019 12:11 PMPosted by Dragonmaster
...
Incorrect. Completing a GR from with <5min left only unlocks the next level. 5-10mins left unlocks the next 2 GRs and >10mins unlocks the next 3.

And I'll have to check the monster health when you compare the same monster to GR60 to T13.


Whatever. I keep finishing in the 5-10 range, I supposed, because they keep opening by 2.

Point still stands - it’s not opening 62 because Torment 13 is 62. It’s opening 62 because it always opens a higher level than what was completed.


I think you might have misunderstood them. Completing a regular rift in any amount of time will unlock the same GR level as they have displayed +2. So in this instance you complete a T13 rift in 4 HOURS, you will be able to open up a GR62. You complete it in 90 seconds, you will be able to open a GR62. GR completion time is what matters for unlocking additional levels. This means if you do your T13 rift, then do a GR62 in 3 minutes you will unlock GR65. Complete GR65 in 3 minutes? That'll be a GR68 unlock. GR68 took you 14 minutes, you will only unlock a GR69.
01/23/2019 05:13 PMPosted by Alteration
01/23/2019 02:32 PMPosted by Orrion
...

Whatever. I keep finishing in the 5-10 range, I supposed, because they keep opening by 2.

Point still stands - it’s not opening 62 because Torment 13 is 62. It’s opening 62 because it always opens a higher level than what was completed.


I think you might have misunderstood them. Completing a regular rift in any amount of time will unlock the same GR level as they have displayed +2. So in this instance you complete a T13 rift in 4 HOURS, you will be able to open up a GR62. You complete it in 90 seconds, you will be able to open a GR62. GR completion time is what matters for unlocking additional levels. This means if you do your T13 rift, then do a GR62 in 3 minutes you will unlock GR65. Complete GR65 in 3 minutes? That'll be a GR68 unlock. GR68 took you 14 minutes, you will only unlock a GR69.


That’s what I understood, so what are you saying I’m wrong about?

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