Question about Time of need vs Agility

Monk
Regarding zdps monk, I have gave an honest attempt at trying to find an explanation as to why time of need is better than agility. Indirectly, I've been able to guess that in Grs over 120 active healing is better than passive mitigation, but still no real explanation.

I've noticed there are actually quite of few builds for zmonks to accommodate different classes in different GR levels. I do understand that very high GRs seem to require Time of Need over agility, just my thick head is not getting it.

If anyone has a link that addresses my main question, thanks for providing it. Or, if anyone can explain how the time of need bubble is better than what the agility damage mitigation buff provides, again thanks.

EDIT: I appoligize for not being clear: I am talking about a support monk in a 4 man group using the active mantra of healing (rune: time of need)over the active mantra of salvation (rune: agility). I know there is a lot more to these mantras and runes and I want to know what is that makes the mantra of healing/time of need better. Am i going for the bubble ( at 226k HGB = about 62k protection) or do i have to stack life regen to increase the party life regen? It seems it is essential that spamming the mantra to gain the active 30% dmg reduction when party members are below 50% health..which seems odd because that rarely happens. which is why I am asking is there a GR limit that when u go above, you need to switch to this. It seems agility is better in a group in GR 120 and below. When doing a 120, no one ever dropped below 90% health that was in range of the monks effects. So if they never dropped to 50% health they never get the 30% dmg reduction. So, that would mean the bubble is the main line of defense...which is on my monk about 62k dmg. The effects of mantra salvation/agility block a lot more than that.
reading your first part i was really thinking you talk about a monk / solo build but further reading made clear that you mean a healer which is absolutely different. with the inna 4p boost you get all mantras so its just a 35% dodge vs dmg reduction when low on health. usually when you get big packs you wanna go for dodge but the thing is that a healer presses its mantra on high frequence such that the shield absorbes inc dmg. its just that simple. try to play solo monk on your limit and you'll see that agility is better choice.
02/13/2019 12:39 PMPosted by Atomfurz
reading your first part i was really thinking you talk about a monk / solo build but further reading made clear that you mean a healer which is absolutely different. with the inna 4p boost you get all mantras so its just a 35% dodge vs dmg reduction when low on health. usually when you get big packs you wanna go for dodge but the thing is that a healer presses its mantra on high frequence such that the shield absorbes inc dmg. its just that simple. try to play solo monk on your limit and you'll see that agility is better choice.


I wasn't very clear so I''v added an edited comment that should clarify my question.
Agility provides dodge, it only really suits wiz taking occulus shots when it is outside inner sanc. Last meta, FB wiz using teleport favours agility over ToN. Agility mantra at lower levels can use normal zmk setups. Higher GR, needed soothing breeze, as well as laws of seph for consistent healing. Agility + SB offers higher healing than ToN when correct BP is reached. This was teleport FB SP wiz.

Moving on to today. LON is much squishier. Wiz needs large amount of HP (1.2 mil or more) to effectively taking occy shot outside sanc. It is not really suitable for low paragon (sub 5k), as the deaths/proc are significantly more common oppose to higher para wiz (6-8k), whether ToN or Agility + SB. I have tried Agility in standard setup but replacing lebvr shoulder with Raiment 2pc. Wiz can tank molten and minor grotesque explosion better but zmk is a lot squishier, needed high level optimization to survive stable w/o 50% DR from lebvr shoulder.

Agility in today's NS LON SP meta is less viable oppose to FB meta. I have no idea how seasonal Tal SP performs with agility. Even with karini, significantly low paragon wiz should be using time of need.

These are experiences coming from 130+ GR, with 120 GR you can just trial and error. I suspect the outcome is same as wiz para is lower for 120 GR and the para:GR ratio is similar, but it also depends on play style.

tl:dr ToN should be your go to mantra.

EDIT: With ToN, you should take regen over zmk mitigation when highly optimized. As long as you reach 3k all res, some all res can be sacrificed on regen slots. When paragon permits, you should trade vit / life% in favor of regen. Especially on helm, chest, belt, pants , boots, bracer.
Celtic, thanks for the information. it is really very helpful. I can reroll some stats to gain more life regen and i should be good to go for the use of ToN. Getting 3k all res seems like a difficult goal but ill work on it, thanks again. This was exactly the kind of information I was looking for.
When it comes to grotesque explosions (5 or more going off simultaneously), how exactly do I protect the wiz from dying? Or is that something unavoidable regardless if you're using ToN or Agility? Been playing with a 3K+ wiz and every time we encounter exploding grotesques he usually die and I don't. We were running 115-120s.

For RG fights where there's no RGK around, the most problematic for me on 2-man runs is Perendi. Is this one of those situations where Agility is better than ToN?

Any help / tips on how to improve my zmonk would be very much appreciated:
https://us.diablo3.com/en/profile/StridentLad-1207/hero/101334382
03/05/2019 03:35 AMPosted by StridentLad
https://us.diablo3.com/en/profile/StridentLad-1207/hero/101334382


Nothing wrong with gearing / the gearing direction you are heading, that is max GH/att spd/cdr/rcr on pcs you can as well as All res. When you are decently optimized, pick regen over self toughness can be handy for the wiz from time to time.

03/05/2019 03:35 AMPosted by StridentLad
When it comes to grotesque explosions (5 or more going off simultaneously), how exactly do I protect the wiz from dying?


You can time the explosion with a delayed blind, but unless the wizard moves out of radius, nothing can the supports do at the currently meta to prevent grotesque explosions from killing the wiz. The wiz should gear for max armor and has substantial amount of HP (1.1-1.2 mil basic, 1.5+ mil for wiz loves their pools). Obviously taking large amount of vit at lower paragon affects dps, so the weighing is personal preference.

Same goes with molten explosions. With molten, zmk should stand at the epic center (middle where it goes off) and should stand between explosion and dps player. It does reduce the damage significantly. Multiple molten explosions are more tricky, you just have to make better calculated positioning. Fire immune are NOT there just for blazing guardians. When it first injected in zmk builds, one of its original purpose was tanking molten for the then twister wiz who cant move off at that time. While blazing guardian fire DoT sky rocketed, molten mechanics / tactics should still be same.

03/05/2019 03:35 AMPosted by StridentLad
2-man runs is Perendi. Is this one of those situations where Agility is better than ToN?


Agility is not suitable for 2/3 man. ToN is a lot better overall.

Positioning is key when tackling boss high damage skills (all RG). Most of these are one directional which supports can aggro the attack. Some of these skills are interruptible by blind/charge. For this instance, perendi hammer. You (zmk) stands at opposite sides away from wiz while keep him/her in sanc. You aggro the hammer to hit you, not your dps. If he still goes for your dps, blind before the hammer lands. Manage your cc skills correctly, dont let him be CC immune or blind wont work. For circumstances you feel you lost control of him, signal your dps to move away. Perendi is very easy to manage but should not be a 2 man RG due to bad hit box for SP. Some RG like Hamelin, you just have to tank the rat balls, it can proc the wiz, particularly higher tier / low para wiz.
Thanks a lot man. Really awesome feedback / tips! I'll keep these in mind.

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