IK: Crown of Thorns (GR95)

Barbarian
Points of Interest

*Zero CDR*
* WotB 100% Up Time*
*Aquilas*
*Gear is Not Very Demanding*
*Vitaliy Centered*

Note: Best IAS Break Point for the build will be at 7 frames (2.17 APS) or 8.57 APS ( IAS: 7% on Weps & 7% anywhere else by whatever means).

https://www.d3planner.com/910782677

WEPS

Oathkeeper & Hack Str/7% IAS/LoH/Vit or +% Elite Damage

GEAR

Helm: IK- Str/LoH or AD/Vit/Socket Thorns - Socketed with Amethyst
Chest: IK - Str/Vit/All Res/-Thorns -Socketed with Amethyst
Belt: IK - Str/Vit/LpFS/All Res Thorns
Pants: IK - Str/Vit/All Res - Thorns -Socketed with Amethyst
Boots: IK - Str/Vit/Res/Armor - Thorns
Gloves: IK - Str/Vit/AR/LoH - Thorns
Bracers: Sanguinary - Phys%/Str/Vit/Loh Thorns
Shoulders: Fury - Str/Vit/All Res/ -Thorns
Amulet: Traveler's Pledge Phys%/ Vit/AR or LoH/Str Thorns
Rings: Compose Rose & BoM Str/LoH or AR/Vit/- Thorns
Weapons: Hack and Oathkeeper Str/8% Elite Damage/LoH/Vit - Socketed with topaz.

CUBE: Bastion's, Aquilas, COE or BoM

SKILLS

Frenzy - Maniac
BT - Fury Dump (sustain)
CotA - TAO
Warcry - Impunity
Wrath of the Berserker - Insanity
FC - MA

PASSIVES

Tough As Nails
Rampage
Relentless
Ruthless

GEMS

Boyarsky
Stricken
Trapped

The game play will be no different from any other Thorns build.
I don't understand why this build is getting so many down votes.

One huge pro with this build is that your raw Thorns damage is not "land locked" so to speak because it can afford Heart of Iron. Not to mention that when Main Stat hits the diminishing returns wall, you can again turn to Vit to continuous increased damage.

One draw back is that this won't achieve the ASP that Thornzy can, but this build easily compensates with perma WotB.
One - Nobody can take you seriously because of your previous "LOL GOLD XP WW BUILD!!!!1111oneoneone" thread you made.

Two - Heart of Iron, even for Barbarian Thorns builds, is a very small contributor to your overall amount of thorns - You pretty much get 100k from just two Topaz+Chip. Another 60k from Thorns on gear. Thus, Strength is a FAR better contributer to Thorn's damage compared to Vitality (This remains true even in extreme cases that you find at high Paragon/Augment levels. Vitality is so you aren't instantly one shot by an unavoidable attack, for ALL builds in the game, nothing else)

Three - For Barbarian, non-LoN Frenzy builds lack a SIGNIFICANT amount of toughness. You don't have Pride of Casius (Which means you can't get 100% uptime on Ignore Pain). You don't have Aquila Cuirass (Theres another 50% gone right there). You don't have the SEVERAL other highly defensive options that are only available to only LoN builds. Crusader has a LOT of defensive options for Invokers set, IK... not so much.

Four - Finally, damage. It's not about the attack speed - It's about that multiplier. IK has 100% uptime on WotB, yes - However, they only have a mere 4000% or so multiplier, compared to LoN's 9750%. LoN builds, while they don't have 100% uptime on WotB, has high uptime on it all the same - What's more, Thorns build, both Barbarian AND Crusader, is an extremely ST focused build - You run around looking for elites while gathering density, and then let the density kill itself on your thorns while you chop at the elite pack. You don't need WotB up all the time, only when you are actually killing, and the CDR needed JUST for 100% uptime on Ignore Pain is enough to ensure that WotB is up every time when you get to killing.

But yea, I'm 99% certain that the downvotes are because you, DieHard, are.. NOT a credible poster on the forums, at all. You lack understanding of hidden game mechanics, and have shown that you aren't capable of simple arithmetic.

Side Note - IK itself is perfectly fine if you are just starting out, got the 3 weapons needed for Frenzy Thorns (Oathkeeper, Hack, and Bastions), and are working on getting ancients for a fun Frenzy-Thorns build. But IK-Thorns is significantly inferior to just about every other IK build (LoN Thorns is... debatable at best, and is mainly for the feels while remaining somewhat viable for solo GR imo)
"I don't understand why this build is getting so many down votes."

Because you are the biggest troll this forum have ever seen? Either Legendary Troll or MemeLord, can't decide which trophy you deserve.
02/18/2019 09:40 AMPosted by Frogspoison
One - Nobody can take you seriously because of your previous "LOL GOLD XP WW BUILD!!!!1111oneoneone" thread you made.

Two - Heart of Iron, even for Barbarian Thorns builds, is a very small contributor to your overall amount of thorns - You pretty much get 100k from just two Topaz+Chip. Another 60k from Thorns on gear. Thus, Strength is a FAR better contributer to Thorn's damage compared to Vitality (This remains true even in extreme cases that you find at high Paragon/Augment levels. Vitality is so you aren't instantly one shot by an unavoidable attack, for ALL builds in the game, nothing else)

Three - For Barbarian, non-LoN Frenzy builds lack a SIGNIFICANT amount of toughness. You don't have Pride of Casius (Which means you can't get 100% uptime on Ignore Pain). You don't have Aquila Cuirass (Theres another 50% gone right there). You don't have the SEVERAL other highly defensive options that are only available to only LoN builds. Crusader has a LOT of defensive options for Invokers set, IK... not so much.

Four - Finally, damage. It's not about the attack speed - It's about that multiplier. IK has 100% uptime on WotB, yes - However, they only have a mere 4000% or so multiplier, compared to LoN's 9750%. LoN builds, while they don't have 100% uptime on WotB, has high uptime on it all the same - What's more, Thorns build, both Barbarian AND Crusader, is an extremely ST focused build - You run around looking for elites while gathering density, and then let the density kill itself on your thorns while you chop at the elite pack. You don't need WotB up all the time, only when you are actually killing, and the CDR needed JUST for 100% uptime on Ignore Pain is enough to ensure that WotB is up every time when you get to killing.

But yea, I'm 99% certain that the downvotes are because you, DieHard, are.. NOT a credible poster on the forums, at all. You lack understanding of hidden game mechanics, and have shown that you aren't capable of simple arithmetic.

Side Note - IK itself is perfectly fine if you are just starting out, got the 3 weapons needed for Frenzy Thorns (Oathkeeper, Hack, and Bastions), and are working on getting ancients for a fun Frenzy-Thorns build. But IK-Thorns is significantly inferior to just about every other IK build (LoN Thorns is... debatable at best, and is mainly for the feels while remaining somewhat viable for solo GR imo)


Not sure if my math is right here:

IK 4,000% x Endless Walk 100% =

8,000%?

As far as Damage Reduction:

I'm hoping that BoM 80%, CotA 50%, Relentless 50% (back end of life pool),
and increased Vitality might give me enough toughness.

Heart of Iron: It may not be much, but 1000 Vitality on a Wep is 3000 Thorns, the near equivalent of Thorns you'd find boots, that one wouldn't otherwise have had, has to amount to something.

You're probably right on all counts, but I have to give it a try.
02/18/2019 12:53 PMPosted by DieHarder


You're probably right on all counts, but I have to give it a try.


Perhaps you should try it first, before posting a build guide that reads like an attempt by someone with no understanding of thorns.

i would be suprised if this build could get thru a gr85 without dying at least 5 times.
85-11 min., 2 deaths my fault.

Best I could throw together, definitely not worth anything, imo..
02/18/2019 03:47 PMPosted by Blackarrows
85-11 min., 2 deaths my fault.

Best I could throw together, definitely not worth anything, imo..


You can expect the same if you just throw together your "best" Thornzy.

I will test this after the Season ends for sure.

By rolling Vitality instead of CDR on gear will give you 17,50 Thorns damage, that's nothing to sneeze at.

Sockets Amethyst instead of Diamonds gives you 4,200 Thorns damage.

That a total of 22,050 Thorns damage. That quite a bit of extra Thorns.
A correction needs to be made to the above total Thorns damage:

Above I have the total as 22,050, but I forgot to account for helm, torso, belt, pants, boots, and bracers which would give an additional 12,750 Thorns damage. This brings the total to the to 34,800. This is nearly having the equivalent of socketing another Topaz, being only 3,200 Thorns shy of it.

I've looked at all my current gear and I'm lacking an optimal ring, helm, torso, amy. Everything else is spot on.

I do have an optimal Hack Stength, Vitality, LoH, 7% IAS, and 97% to Thorns, but it's not Ancient :(

My Oath is Ancient and optimal :)
02/20/2019 08:37 AMPosted by DieHarder
A correction needs to be made to the above total Thorns damage:

Above I have the total as 22,050, but I forgot to account for helm, torso, belt, pants, boots, and bracers which would give an additional 12,750 Thorns damage. This brings the total to the to 34,800. This is nearly having the equivalent of socketing another Topaz, being only 3,200 Thorns shy of it.

I've looked at all my current gear and I'm lacking an optimal ring, helm, torso, amy. Everything else is spot on.

I do have an optimal Hack Stength, Vitality, LoH, 7% IAS, and 97% to Thorns, but it's not Ancient :(

My Oath is Ancient and optimal :)


Again - You aren't credible. You don't do the math at all.

CDR is needed so you don't DIE. Damage itself is not too much an issue as long as you have all ancient pieces - With Frenzy Thorns (Not Thornzy), toughness is an issue LONG before damage is.

You will also have nearly 200k thorns from JUST baseline thorns alone, providing you get Thorns on every possible piece. Again, the Thorns from vit is so insignificant that strength is the better choice for damage, ALWAYS. 5 vitality gems gives 3k thorns, and on a proper, geared LoN thorns build, that's only a 1.5% damage increase. In order for 5 Vitality gems to be better for damage than 5 Rubies, you will need almost 150k strength, which just isn't obtainable in game.

This isn't feels Diehard. This is math - Cold, hard math. Math has proven that LoN Frenzy Thorns is, by FAR, the best thorns build for Barbarian. Math has proven that Vitality is, by FAR, a worst stat for ANY Thorns build in the game compared to Strength. Math has proven that, by FAR, CDR is a needed, crucial stat for any Thorns build, to the point that it can overtake Thorns based on how much Thorns you have available FOR Thorns build.

Your build is suboptimal. Nonviable. It's GR cap will be well over 15 GRs behind conventional LoN Frenzy Thorns due to lack of damage reduction.

Still, at least this isn't as bad as your "LOL GOLD WW XP BUILD!!!!1111one) in which you only got 22 billion XP from it over several months.
Frog,

You're arguing an argument that isn't being argued. Strength is better than Vitality, agreed.

I'm arguing that Vitality be used to increase damage when possible, but not over Strength. The Thornzy guides says to use all Diamonds. I'm saying Vitality for toughness and damage with IK in place of Diamonds and CDR. You're saying to use Rubies and that is a disservice to players since Rubies won't promote the toughness that you're arguing for, at least not better than Amethyst or Diamonds.

Another point that's going over your head is IK has 50% (CotA)+ 80% (BoM)+ 50% (Relentless). When Relentless becomes active it has 30% more DR than Thornzy and a much larger pool of life. Secondly, IK can achieve the equal amount of LoH and LpFS, these two combined make a greater source of sustain.
Cleared GR 95

I dropped Heart of Iron for Aquila's ( super tough).

I did about 5 to 6 runs. This was my first time playing a Thorns builds and I kept feeling like I was leaving so much on the table.

I'm sure an experience would have better results.
Meh. It’s the season of Lon (barb) excluded
some guy on ptr season did a 92 in 9 mins as hota/thorns hybrid, with 600 paragon and average gear, nothing for the end build tough
04/25/2019 05:15 AMPosted by acxell
some guy on ptr season did a 92 in 9 mins as hota/thorns hybrid, with 600 paragon and average gear, nothing for the end build tough


Thorns dont have any sense with LoN HoTA, attack speed is far away from from IK HoTA version, I'm not sure if thorns apply in with Bloodshee rune from Battle Rage (probably not) but if even if Would be apply, is not enought damage with HoTA, It much better have another legendary gem that increase total damage instead of Thorns gem, topaz in weapons....

I test by my self LoN HoTA in season before reset, i clear 95 with 600 Paragon, It feels good, but It still worst than IK, because it has worse scale.

Barbarians since season 12-13, dont have any new build, all things is already tested, we Will keep being ignored untill Blizzard want, dont try to find more builds, because there aren't new ones. We need new legendary powers.
04/25/2019 04:27 AMPosted by Dmoney
Meh. It’s the season of Lon (barb) excluded


Well, 95 is pretty good (and it was tough), given that I've never played Thorns Barb before. If I'm not mistaking, Thornzy is doing GR 98 and as Conan put it, " it pretty darn hard to gear for"(paraphrasing). I chose to drop Heart of Iron for Aquila's, but I bet you a skilled player could do well with Heart of Iron. I said in another post that it felt like a poor man's HOTA and it was not fun for me, to say the least.

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