Point by point : Why D:I isn't a reskin

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02/13/2019 10:39 AMPosted by Linkdead
02/13/2019 10:25 AMPosted by Exuri
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This is so, but the PC world is what shaped them into who they were, and who they were was great.


I don't deny that at all. Just stating their roots. I grew up with stuff like the Lost Vikings. That was my era. I played Warcraft Orcs vs Humans on a computer that met the specs for playing it - barely. I still remember putting my 5 and a quarter into a commodore just to play qbert. ;)

All the people that say they were a PC dev first drive me a bit batty. Haha. It's my OCD nature kicking in, I guess? :)


First Blizzard game I played was Diablo on PS1, wasn't supposed to be playing it because rated "M" and my parents would have probably threw it out so I hid it.

I still have it in my little collection of nostalgia, definitely one of my favorites.
It's right by the PS1 in the pic :)

http://oi64.tinypic.com/nxmbll.jpg
02/13/2019 10:46 AMPosted by Exuri
02/13/2019 10:39 AMPosted by Linkdead
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I don't deny that at all. Just stating their roots. I grew up with stuff like the Lost Vikings. That was my era. I played Warcraft Orcs vs Humans on a computer that met the specs for playing it - barely. I still remember putting my 5 and a quarter into a commodore just to play qbert. ;)

All the people that say they were a PC dev first drive me a bit batty. Haha. It's my OCD nature kicking in, I guess? :)


First Blizzard game I played was Diablo on PS1, wasn't supposed to be playing it because rated "M" and my parents would have probably threw it out so I hid it.

I still have it in my little collection of nostalgia, definitely one of my favorites.
It's right by the PS1 in the pic :)

http://oi64.tinypic.com/nxmbll.jpg


I'm pretty sure my first was The Lost Vikings. I did play D1 on my brothers computer when he'd let me (not very often), and loved it way back when. It's when I fell in love with ARPG games in general. Not because of the dark gritty world, or the art or story, even. Just because it's a fun type of game. (Unpopular opinion - I like D3. I still play it with my wife on the Switch when we have time for games (which is not often)).

I wouldn't call it my favorite, but it has some of my favorite memories attached (rose tinted glasses don't work on me lol). I've tried playing it and D2 more recently and...they're just painful to me, now. So I keep my fond memories, and don't stress over new ones with them. :)
02/13/2019 10:45 AMPosted by Imperius
If anything Messiah is among the very best Engines on mobile and offers a vast array of possibilities for developers...

The Messiah engine is used more and more for various mobile games, not only is it versatile, but it is superior in many areas like lighting, rendering and mapping.

You can find articles about it and how the West was absolutely stunned by how good the engine is.


Yes i read some of them. then again... what's your point? that proves nothing. That papers are not technical nor API specifications to use them in a software project. They are more for marketing. Sorry, i correct. it DOES prove something: You don't have enough knowledge to to argue on this matter.
02/13/2019 10:45 AMPosted by Imperius
If anything Messiah is among the very best Engines on mobile and offers a vast array of possibilities for developers...

The Messiah engine is used more and more for various mobile games, not only is it versatile, but it is superior in many areas like lighting, rendering and mapping.

You can find articles about it and how the West was absolutely stunned by how good the engine is.


Yes i read some of them. then again... what's your point? that proves nothing. That papers are not technical nor API specifications to use it in a software project. They are more for marketing. Sorry, i correct. it DOES prove something: You don't have enough knowlege to to argue on this matter.


Actually, you're the one who believes using the same engine proves your point... If Blizzard wanted to make a game about cute penguins swimming they could use the Messiah engine. Would you call it a reskin then?
02/13/2019 11:18 AMPosted by Imperius
Actually, you're the one who believes using the same engine proves your point... If Blizzard wanted to make a game about cute penguins swimming they could use the Messiah engine. Would you call it a reskin then?


You have not yet shown any proof that it is not a reskinned game nor that there are public documentation of how to use Messiah engine nor you have enough technical knowledge to argue of how D:I and EoG game are completely different from each other.

You should answer the following first:

02/13/2019 10:41 AMPosted by naksiloth
02/13/2019 10:12 AMPosted by Imperius
In games made with Unreal Engine 3 mist looked unrealistic on purpose.


"Unrealistic mist in Unreal Engine 3". Who would've think?

02/13/2019 10:12 AMPosted by Imperius
Again.. what does it prove? Look at some footage on how an engine is used...


You're nagging the subject really, I'll cut to the chase;
NetEase used the same engine with their other games which is okay in the book. Yet that caused people to just find similarities to other NetEase games which they did. From doing many other diablo and WoW clones also being a Blizzard partner NetEase just had the right tool and premade code for the job. That's why Blizzard outsourcing it at the first place. They used premade code for interaction here and there, and it sticks out.
Doesn't matter if development claims it has been made from scratch; all Diablo-clones followed a similar formula for years; they can not break their own design.

People just frustrated about it being a mobile game and given their fame, mobile games are not really user interface savvy. When people looked at the other games they saw very similar features and being aware it's an oversaturated market that doesn't give space for innovation, they started a backlash. It doesn't matter if they intended to do a reskin of another game or not, mobile market is so filled with games something somewhere will overlap with one another and will catch attention. They don't even have to try, nor they had to lie.

D:I doesn't really bring innovative stuff to the mobile besides tweaked with HD graphics for PC emulation; yet it doesn't matter if it did also. It doesn't matter if it's a reskin or not. Biggest concerns are; microtransactions, compatibility (emulated on Nintendo Switch?) and data trade on advertisements. Until those three questions are answered this kinda outcries will linger and will leave the more important questions at the shade.
Curious to know your opinion on this game then

https://youtu.be/TXVJOOcV1Ms

I mean.......... Diablo 3 reskin? Nah, just using the same kind of skill animations. That shield bash, though.
This thread is getting way too technical for no reason.

Calling Diablo:Immortal a "reskin" was never meant to be taken literally. Nobody cares if it actually fits the criteria to be classified by definition as a "reskin".

It's close enough and that's all that matters.
it could be the best mobile game in the world ; it'd still be a mobile game.
there's no smoothing out the stoopid mistake they decided to indulge in.
02/13/2019 01:32 AMPosted by KushiSensei
And therefore they should never try to expand their fan base?

Besides, most of their earlier titles were for consoles. hell, even Diablo 1 was launched on the PS1 (I think it was at the same time as the PC launch or afterwards. I don't remember).

The way I see it is that what happened the past few months is just general disdain for 2 major reasons: Disappointment over the fact that Diablo Immortal is not a PC title and sheer hatred for mobile phones as a gaming platform.

Personally, I have no problem with Diablo Immortal because it's not the only project they are working on. if it was - all those hiring posts over the past 18 months would have a cruel practical joke on everyone. People are impatient and want the next thing asap - which is understandable but also unrealistic.

I get why people feel abandoned by Blizzard for making Diablo Immortal but I don't mind that. if it brings more people to the fan base, more money for Blizzard and subsequently Activision and that means more funding to make more content - i'm okay with that. And, as always - it's a game like any other game and you can choose to play it or not. Just don't act like Blizzard is beholden to a "one platform fan base".


They can expand all they want. But the way it looks to a lot of players right now, even though they may be wrong. It looks like mobile gaming is their priority. If that is the case and in time they will be a mobile game company then you will see their PC and console fans abandon them like Blizz abandoned us.

We PC/console gamers have chosen either PC of console as our platform to play games on. We won't touch a mobile game because we have chosen to use our phones as phones instead of to play games. For tablets we use them for other things than gaming.

02/13/2019 02:43 AMPosted by KushiSensei
If we're honest - making a AAA pc game takes a long long time. D3 was announced at 2008 and released in 2012 after going through multiple iterations. RoS came out in 2014 and supposedly, they started working on the next title afterwards. during that time, a lot of the Diablo team were put on the next project. So, making a mobile game to pass the time until they'll announce the next PC game doesn't seem that bad to me. is it disappointing considering most people expected a pc title? absolutely. Business wise? it makes sense. Blizzard is no longer a PC only game company. They're a multi-platform company and that's just the way it is because they're a business and trying to reach as many people on as many platforms as possible is a strategic move, regardless of what you, me and others here might think. that's why i'm not as scornful or disappointed as most because it's a business decision and it's out of my hands. seeing as it's their first mobile title, it might be the only one if it's poorly received or one in a line of many if it's a success. we'll have to wait and see.


They announced D:I at Blizzcon in front of a PC and Console gaming crowd. To rub salt in the wounds they said they were making it for us. They should know what platforms we choose to play games on. They shouldn't have assumed that we are like Wyatt and others in the office that don't care what platform a game is on. Where they don't eve care if the games they are playing are nothing more than cash grabs. We are different than that and they should've known that. It showed how much out of touch they are with us. They actually rubbed salt in it at least twice with that famous meme about "What don't you guys have phones". That is saying accept this game because this is what we have for. Kind of like saying you must play it.

Now if they had something else that was PC or D:I would have a PC version in the future that would be darker, returning to the core Diablo roots. Or even a DLC character pack for D3 like the Druid (strength class) it might not have been nearly as bad.

Finally you have the danger of greed. Where Blizz sees it is cheaper to make a good cash grab game with less time. That means that they can keep more of the profits. Milk the you know what out of the players. Then make the next new game, repeating the process many times over. All because of greed and profits. Instead of caring about their core audience, where they actually do make games for the PC and console crowd.
02/13/2019 06:24 AMPosted by Orrion
No, Diablo 1 was ported to the PS1, and badly. And Starcraft was ported to the N64, at least. Ports are different in that they weren’t originally intended to be on that system. Overwatch on the Xbox One, for example, is not a port because it was intended to be on both consoles and PC.


D1 on the PS wasn't as bad as you think. That game got me playing games at home on the PS. Then when we got the first family computer that could play games I played D2 and was hooked on Diablo ever since. I had many hours of fun playing different builds with different classes. Some I beat Diablo with others I just was having playing a for fun build. My build that I had the most fun with was a Flame Swordsman Warrior. I used the gear needed to be able to raise Fireball to a good enough level. What I did was hit the enemies with Fireball to weaken them. Then finish the job with the sword. I even beat Diablo with that build.

02/13/2019 07:29 AMPosted by Howdypardner
So this thread proves what?

That Imperius and Shadowagis both survived the Blizzard firings?


Join us (Venom quote for joining the hive mind) or don't post at all. Those ones don't care about the truth. Or even logic and reasoning. You either say I agree or leave it is that simple with them. If you don't agree and express it, which goes against the unwritten rule on these forums you are called all kinds of names till either you tire out and join them or leave. That is the way it has been for the entire time this game has existed. It is just that it took me this long to notice it.

Unreal engine is different to Messiah engine you know? Messiah is specific to mobile games. Also, considering the time frame, they hadn't enogh of it to build a game from scratch so they used an already made one.


Unless you are a programmer and have tried using both engines to make games then you might be able to tell us how much hard it is to make mobile games on a mobile game engine compared to a PC game engine. For some reason you think that the devs made that demo in about a month or less through reskinning. There is no way of knowing how long they have been working on the game. For all we know they could've been working on it with NetEase for at most 2 years. This is since we know that one of the founders that have returned (forgot his name) said that he is the one that had to idea to start Blizz down the path of making mobile games. So D:I is his brainchild of sorts. He has been back for about 2 years according to him.

02/13/2019 10:41 AMPosted by naksiloth
You're nagging the subject really, I'll cut to the chase;
NetEase used the same engine with their other games which is okay in the book. Yet that caused people to just find similarities to other NetEase games which they did. From doing many other diablo and WoW clones also being a Blizzard partner NetEase just had the right tool and premade code for the job. That's why Blizzard outsourcing it at the first place. They used premade code for interaction here and there, and it sticks out.


They are using NetEase so their game can sell in China. I wish that people would seriously look up the Chinese strict gaming laws. Because I found that it is true. If I were a video game develop in the likes of a David Brevik. I wanted to get a game that is similar to It Lurks Below in China. I would have to get the help of a Chinese Game Developer to help me get a license for my game before it could be legally sold in China.
02/13/2019 02:46 AMPosted by Meteorblade
Not if it costs them their existing fan base.
They have never had a problem with that.
Unless you are a programmer


Yes, it happens that i am one of those. I might not use Messiah game engines as i'm not a professional game developer and only Netease and blizzard employees can use their APIs, but as a professional software developer i know how an API works and how to integrate it to a large software project. Also y have some knowlege of how Unreal engine works. I can give you a rough estimation of the time they used to make their prototype. Of course, The more variables are known (number of programmers, experience, expertise, project architecture, etc.)the more precise it can be.

Are you one of those? Can you give us a more precise answer? Do you have any proof that they made D:I prototype in two years?
Reskin or not, I honestly don't give a damn about that thing. Nobody asked for it, but they just went ahead and took a dump on the entire playerbase because China only has phones and loves paying for microtransactions.

To be perfectly honest, this game looks like a reskin in the same way TES games and Fallout feel similar for using the same engine. Probably a lot of shared code, but different assets put together to shape up the game. I wouldn't be surprised if the Diablo game featured some of the quirks other Netease games may happen to have.
This is one of the most successful trolling threads I've ever seen on this forum. Almost a hundred down votes for the OP. Congratulations Imperius! This is Sevenshadow worthy …
02/13/2019 02:25 PMPosted by Chipoodle
Unless you are a programmer


Yes, it happens that i am one of those. I might not use Messiah game engines as i'm not a professional game developer and only Netease and blizzard employees can use their APIs, but as a professional software developer i know how an API works and how to integrate it to a large software project. Also y have some knowlege of how Unreal engine works. I can give you a rough estimation of the time they used to make their prototype. Of course, The more variables are known (number of programmers, experience, expertise, project architecture, etc.)the more precise it can be.

Are you one of those? Can you give us a more precise answer? Do you have any proof that they made D:I prototype in two years?


What I was trying to say is that only video game programmers would know how hard it is to use game engines to write programs. Heck even some engines that have been used to make video games can no doubt be used for normal business and non business software. You just need to use different tools to make those types of software. That is why I have no exact idea of how long it took the make the demo. But I do know that it wasn't slapped together in a month or less. I also know that it couldn't have been worked on for more than 2 years because Allen Adham basically said that he was convinced that it is a good idea to start making mobile games. So D:I is sort of his brainchild. He probably is the one that sold Activision Blizzard on the idea.

I know that Blizzard couldn't have been working on D:I prior to 2016 because Allen Adham wasn't with them at the time. So it has to be within a given window between when Allen Adham returned in 2016 and Blizzcon 2018. How much time is unknown. I don't know how long it would take a professional video game developer to make a video game using a new engine. Also according to Brandy the game is further along than what we have seen. We only seen enough that is suppose to whet or appetite. Well for the greater majority it has made us mad instead of excited, including me. That is what some don't understand. I am upset as well.

It is just that I try to use logic and reasoning to figure out who to put the blame on. Just as MC said the real blame has to be on the higher ups the suits. The leaders of the company. Yes that could very well include the new president for Blizzard. Mike might've decided to step down and eventually leave because he knew what would happen when D:I was announced. He could've even warned them that it wasn't a good idea. Of course not having anything new to announce would've been even worse.

The real disaster was how they handled the whole thing after the announcement. If it was done right where they could give proof that they are indeed working on multiple PC games for the Diablo franchise then the problem with D:I wouldn't be as bad.

Only time will tell what they are indeed working on as far as Diablo games goes. Although I will have to admit that I don't expect much as far as big announcements goes for the Diablo franchise as this years Blizzcon. But that doesn't stop them from showing us some things like they said that they would do during this year. Now the clock is ticking and if we only get more seasons without much new stuff and radio silence till this time next year then we will know that they really didn't have anything ready to tell us or show us. The only thing they have at that point is D:I which will make matters even worse.

I hate saying this but if we don't hear of anything as far as the future of the Diablo franchise on PC goes before this time next year. Then the sales for D4 will probably be around 1.5 million in its first week, and I am being generous at that. I don't even think that those that would normally pre-order would have to pre-order to get a copy. I don't think that if that does happen that D4 will fly off of the shelves. Unless something happens that is big, no not necessarily about the Diablo franchise (but still could be), that estimation would probably be correct.

I say the above is probably gonna be true due to the fact that you might not have nearly as many people attending or watching this year's Blizzcon. I don't think that the players will allow themselves to get that hyped for the event unless they have a better idea of what they will be getting by attending. I highly doubt that any special cosmetic stuff will get people to attend. Nor any special promotion would drive people to attend. This is saying that the D:I fiasco will truly bite the sales of tickets for this year's Blizzcon big time. I highly doubt that they will sell out anywhere near as fast as they did last year.

When the suits see how bad the fiasco of D:I last year impacts the sales of tickets then they might actually see that they have to admit that they were wrong and apologize for the fiasco.
@ShasowAegis, they might apologize if that happens, but they just can’t cancel D:I.

I’m not excited about the prospect of having a Diablo game on mobile, but it’s just too important for the future of Blizzard in a way. The mobile games market made almost 70 billions in revenues, while the PC market made a bit more than half that in 2018, crazy.

The investors were unhappy and Activision Blizzard had a great year, a record year... it’s just crazy how high the expectations are from ActiBlizz investors. If Blizzard can show growth and get on the good side of Bobby Kotick, then it’s good for us.

As for the future on PC, nothing prevents them from doing both mobile games and PC/console games. Just because mobile is more lucrative doesn’t mean they need to put all their eggs in the same basket. They certainly seemed to be motivated to offer games on all platforms in the last couple of years.
02/13/2019 10:06 PMPosted by Imperius

As for the future on PC, nothing prevents them from doing both mobile games and PC/console games. Just because mobile is more lucrative doesn’t mean they need to put all their eggs in the same basket. They certainly seemed to be motivated to offer games on all platforms in the last couple of years.


What some fail to see is, its this trying to make Diablo accessible to multiple platforms which have made D3 so lacklustre compared to its predecessors. Limited number of skills accessible via UI, max 4 person in a game, dumb down mechanics all spell out consolitis. The result is PC suffered.

One can only be thankful that they do not intend to port DI to PC.
02/13/2019 10:15 PMPosted by jtcdgroup
02/13/2019 10:06 PMPosted by Imperius

As for the future on PC, nothing prevents them from doing both mobile games and PC/console games. Just because mobile is more lucrative doesn’t mean they need to put all their eggs in the same basket. They certainly seemed to be motivated to offer games on all platforms in the last couple of years.


What some fail to see is, its this trying to make Diablo accessible to multiple platforms which have made D3 so lacklustre compared to its predecessors. Limited number of skills accessible via UI, max 4 person in a game, dumb down mechanics all spell out consolitis. The result is PC suffered.

One can only be thankful that they do not intend to port DI to PC.


It may be true, what works well on PC would feel like a mess on console, so they need to strike a balance between the two, which means PC gamers will inevitably feel like the game is not elaborate enough to their liking.
02/13/2019 03:00 AMPosted by KushiSensei
02/13/2019 02:46 AMPosted by Meteorblade
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Not if it costs them their existing fan base.


Everything usually comes at the cost of something else.
People act like Blizzard is going mobile only and that's just not true.

This is what they are working on and have to show "at this moment in time".

if you think that they are not actively working on the next PC title, you should take another look at the open positions on their Career page that people don't seem to take into account.

People are just mad they didn't get what they were expecting when they wanted it.


I think people are upset because Blizzard told their fanbase to get excited for Diablo news on August 8, 2018 that then only delivered the mobile game at Blizzcon. If Blizzard didn't have anything to show the Diablo fanbase, why did they tell us to get excited 6 months ago? Why has it been 5 years since Reaper of Souls launched and Blizzard still has nothing to show for Diablo 4?

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