No such thing as a right to get what you want

General Discussion
02/22/2019 01:38 PMPosted by Imperius
There are very few companies out there who valued their customers quite as much as Blizzard Entertainment. From events to in game freebies, Blizzard always does a little something to thank their loyal customers.

Some may say they did it a bit too much.

There is this wide spread notion that Blizzard must give people exactly what they want and when they want it. A bit like children asking their parent for a chocolate bar at the store. Sadly for them, there’s no such thing as a right to get what you want.

While it is always good for business to give the customer what they want, no company is bond by contract to do so. A gaming company could go from developing games to selling burgers if they wanted.

Content creators are expected to make something interesting, but they are not obligated to make the content you want to see.

Whether it is Diablo Immortal being a mobile game or Diablo 4 being still in the works and not ready for a reveal, Blizzard has the absolute right to do whatever it wants with their brand.

Blizzard’s way of always making events to celebrate the passion of their fan base is now hurting them, because that loyal fan base is now expecting to be at the center of every decision Blizzard makes. The content cannot move forward, since the fan base is looking backward, always expecting what they once got.

A content creator has absolute power over what content they create and the consumer has absolute power over what they consume. None of them is forced to play by any set of predefined rules.

Buy or don’t buy, this is the extent of your power.


You aren’t wrong but none of this is relevant.

Blizzard is entitled to do what they want. Agreed.

Fans are entitled to feel, expect and say what they want.

You can’t tell a fan they are wrong for what they want, or how they feel about Blizzards decisions unless they have misunderstood the measureable reality of the situation.

Fans want X and they are complaining that they aren’t getting it. That might convince Blizzard to pull their head out of their !@# and they the complaining was effective. It might not convince Blizzard and so the fans eventually move on.

What don’t you understand or like about this process?
02/22/2019 06:50 PMPosted by Celestrious
02/22/2019 01:38 PMPosted by Imperius
There are very few companies out there who valued their customers quite as much as Blizzard Entertainment. From events to in game freebies, Blizzard always does a little something to thank their loyal customers.

Some may say they did it a bit too much.

There is this wide spread notion that Blizzard must give people exactly what they want and when they want it. A bit like children asking their parent for a chocolate bar at the store. Sadly for them, there’s no such thing as a right to get what you want.

While it is always good for business to give the customer what they want, no company is bond by contract to do so. A gaming company could go from developing games to selling burgers if they wanted.

Content creators are expected to make something interesting, but they are not obligated to make the content you want to see.

Whether it is Diablo Immortal being a mobile game or Diablo 4 being still in the works and not ready for a reveal, Blizzard has the absolute right to do whatever it wants with their brand.

Blizzard’s way of always making events to celebrate the passion of their fan base is now hurting them, because that loyal fan base is now expecting to be at the center of every decision Blizzard makes. The content cannot move forward, since the fan base is looking backward, always expecting what they once got.

A content creator has absolute power over what content they create and the consumer has absolute power over what they consume. None of them is forced to play by any set of predefined rules.

Buy or don’t buy, this is the extent of your power.


You aren’t wrong but none of this is relevant.

Blizzard is entitled to do what they want. Agreed.

Fans are entitled to feel, expect and say what they want.

You can’t tell a fan they are wrong for what they want, or how they feel about Blizzards decisions unless they have misunderstood the measureable reality of the situation.

Fans want X and they are complaining that they aren’t getting it. That might convince Blizzard to pull their head out of their !@# and they the complaining was effective. It might not convince Blizzard and so the fans eventually move on.

What don’t you understand or like about this process?


I don't like how Blizzard is expected to do exactly what the fans want... They aren't allowed to explore other genres and other platforms than the one the PC "master race" likes.

There are so many companies out there who make 5 bad games for every good game they make and people are fine with that company, but Blizzard makes one game for mobile, which isn't even out yet and people lose their mind... They call for complete boycott of the company... It's childish at best.
02/22/2019 05:57 PMPosted by Imperius
And yet those changes revived D3...


Revived for the few who appreciated it for what it was. A dumbed down action arcade and an absolutely pathetic RPG. This game was made tolerable for those that didn’t quit in disgust. They catered to a group of people that were incapable of respecting and appreciating the intricacies of a real rpg. Now it’s just a dictated, hyperinflated clone circus, and most left to go play real RPG’s that have depth, freedom, integrity, and diversity.
I haven't been on here in over a month and the first thread I see is from you complaining about people complaining about the state of Blizzard and their games. Give it up. Lmfao
02/22/2019 02:13 PMPosted by Oblivion
02/22/2019 02:12 PMPosted by Imperius
Well the controversy of the last Blizzcon was largely based on the fans expectations and Blizzard failing to give them exactly what they were hoping for.


It's actually more with blizzard being out of touch with its community than anything.


This is true blizzard has always been out of touch of their player community when it comes to diablo, Starcraft, Starcraft 2, Diablo 3 rots, and etc. The ones who keep showing up are the MVPs and Cummitany managers. It's not just video game companies other companies who has forums this has happen too. I'm ignoring those who have more connect. I haven't been around warcraft so I can't speak about it.
02/22/2019 07:09 PMPosted by Imperius
I don't like how Blizzard is expected to do exactly what the fans want... They aren't allowed to explore other genres and other platforms than the one the PC "master race" likes.

Explore? They're literally doing this Immortal thing because there's massive profits to be made within the largely unregulated mobile platform without raising too many eyebrows. Blizzard, and pretty much every other big publisher relying heavily on microtransactions and other PROFITEERING methods are all waking up to the reality traditional gamers are no longer as easily abused as they would like. Blizzard themselves had a pretty rough wake up call when D3's auction house was met with massive backlash, rightfully so. That's exactly why they're "exploring" mobile gaming, not to innovate or make it a better place, but to keep the obscenely rapid growth expectations their shareholders are expecting after several years of this crap. This has nothing to do with creative exploration. It's pure unmitigated greed.

You know what would actually convince me the motivation behind this "exploration" is a decent one? Making Diablo: Immortal a proper standalone release without any strings attached to it. You know, a first step and a strong precedent towards demonstrating mobile gaming doesn't have to be the greed-driven exploitative cesspool it is thanks to ethically bankrupt developers seeking only to over-monetize the hell out of any subpar piece of garbage they manage to vomit into either appstore. They just did it for the Switch, did they not? Why can't they do this as well with this thing and set a powerful precedent?

And before you rush to knee+jerk react claiming it's all conjecture, I'm perfectly aware it certainly is. It's not an unfunded or far-fetched projection, though. We all know perfectly well this stupid thing is going to be excessively over-monetized even if we don't have the details of it yet based solely on the fact Netease's involvement with the project is bound to result in that sort of heavy-handed over-monetization. We've already seen some of the "gems" they've released, and to be perfectly honest, Diablo: Immortal doesn't look any better than any of them, even if it has Blizzard quality art assets. Netease is notorious for bolting P2W mechanics into their games, yet you somehow want to convey the idea they're somehow going to not do the same with Diablo? Give me a break. But hey, they're exploring!

For me this isn't a matter of keeping Blizzard bound to the PC platform, even though I strongly subscribe to the idea that deep and engaging games are far more feasible within this platform. You'd also have to be a complete moron to actually swallow that "fUlLy FlEdGeD DiAbLo ExPeRiEnCe On MoBiLe!" nonsense. A cute spin-off, maybe, but a proper Diablo game?

02/22/2019 03:19 PMPosted by Imperius
Well Blizzcon costs a lot. Blizzard loses money on that event, every year.

It's called fan service. If a company raking in billions of dollars can't spare the relatively smaller costs of organizing community-driven events without expecting massive profits from that as well, they may as well stop organizing the damn thing and be honest about it. This may sound entitled to you, but it's something many companies have leveraged to strengthen the bond with their respective communities.

Ever heard of Warframe's Tennocon? Awesome stuff! Seriously rivaling Blizzard's former Blizzcon deliveries, at a relatively smaller scale, but the spirit behind that thing is just so damn pure. That used to be Blizzard, and see how low they've fallen last year with each and every single one of their IPs taking massive PR blows due to the lackluster nature behind all presentations. Diablo fans simply happen to have received the worst blow of them all, but they were all affected in one way or another. I'm curious about what they'll do for this year, because it's going to take one hell of a effort to undo the damage they caused last year.
I have yet to try a Netease game that is as "heavy-handed over-monetized" as you say... Honestly, I've tried many games from many companies and Netease is far from being among the worsts... You can play any of their games without spending money or without having to spend anywhere near the 60$ you'd pay for a physical copy of any game.

This whole "Netease is evil" thing was started by some random Reddit post from someone claiming to be Chinese and claiming that Crusaders of Light was somehow the most P2W game ever.... I finished the game and didn't even need to pay my way through it. How is that P2W?

Just because some fools would spend hundreds of dollars to git guud as fast as possible doesn't mean a game is pay to win.
02/22/2019 01:38 PMPosted by Imperius
There is this wide spread notion that Blizzard must give people exactly what they want and when they want it.

Nope. There is a widespread notion that if a company doesn't give their customers what they want, they stop being that company's customers and they spend their money somewhere else. It feels like Blizzard are actively trying to get people to move on.
02/22/2019 11:25 PMPosted by Meteorblade
02/22/2019 01:38 PMPosted by Imperius
There is this wide spread notion that Blizzard must give people exactly what they want and when they want it.

Nope. There is a widespread notion that if a company doesn't give their customers what they want, they stop being that company's customers and they spend their money somewhere else. It feels like Blizzard are actively trying to get people to move on.


And yet there's plenty of evidence they are working on a new Diablo game that will eventually be announced... But for some reason people just lost it with Diablo Immortal and refuse to see past the fact that there will be a Diablo game on mobile......

People will get what they want, but they still freak out for some side project that wasn't even developed by the Diablo team...
02/22/2019 07:09 PMPosted by Imperius
but Blizzard makes one game for mobile, which isn't even out yet and people lose their mind... They call for complete boycott of the company... It's childish at best.

lol That's not true at all !

The DI fiasco was just the tip of the iceberg. Blizzard hyped up a Diablo announcement for blizzcon which turned out to be a mobile game...

People are fed up with incompetence and corporate bull!@#$ (we hear you). They %^-*ed up their IPs over and over in the last years, all their games are in decline and you think the customers are getting what they want.

Now let's see what's on the horizon:
  • Wacraft Reforged: warcraft 3 remake.
  • World of Warcraft Classic: The last expansions failed so hard that classic looks more interesting than a new expansion for many players.
  • Diablo Immortal: D3 lite for phones. The same characters, monsters, locations, and abilities you've seen for years in D3, with some gimmicks added to the gameplay. + cash shop and phone limitations. (brought to you by Netease)
  • Diablo 4 speculation


hmm...
02/22/2019 05:57 PMPosted by Imperius
And yet those changes revived D3... People used to think gearing up was too hard, getting to max level was too hard, reaching inferno was too hard and blablabla. Blizzard makes it easier... People complain that Paragon levels are too hard to get.... Blizzard makes it easier...

Really Blizzard just tried to make the game the way people wanted it...


D3 vanilla was even worse than RoS......but you don't make it better by dumbing everything down, and putting endgame items in everyone's mailbox.....lol....

It was not a widely established complaint that it was to hard to get paragon levels.....when the system was unveiled it was to erase the demand for magic find items because morons were running into corners to switch all of their items during boss fights; stacking MF was the standard practice. Paragon points gave everyone free MF so that when they leveled up some more they did not have to do this.

It also gave people at least SOMETHING after level 60.....before it, there was nothing.

You are defending a crew of losers who cried over "the difficulty" and "gaining levels" and then seeing the opposition of your unfortunate argument, as defending the bland trash that was D3 vanilla....the devs yielding to their wishes does not give any credibility to them or the players...

The changes you speak of revived nothing because they are lipstick on a pig, and how D3 vanilla interlocks with RoS, as far as all the dumb decisions is concerned is a very very multi faceted idea....
02/22/2019 11:00 PMPosted by Imperius
This whole "Netease is evil" thing was started by some random Reddit post from someone claiming to be Chinese and claiming that Crusaders of Light was somehow the most P2W game ever.... I finished the game and didn't even need to pay my way through it. How is that P2W?

Reddit? There are several reports on Steam, Google's and Apple's app stores about Netease games being P2W. This isn't something randomly popping up after Immortal's botched announcement either. It goes far before that, so you may want to keep your bandwagoning strawman to yourself and stop pretending mistrusting Netease is unfunded on principle.

To be fair, this isn't exclusive to Netease. It's a fundamental cultural discrepancy between mobile and traditional game development. Mobile since it's inception has relied on a metric ton of over-monetization tactics translating in obscene amounts of profit at the expense of games' integrity. Even if the games themselves are alright from a technical standpoint, whatever merit they may have from that perspective is sadly overshadowed by the sort of monetization we see in these games. That's an undeniable reality.

This is why I simply can't take Wyatt's statement about how mobile shouldn't be a dirty word seriously. The ecosystem within which this particular branch of gaming has developed is inherently and needlessly dirty, and it's without a doubt the main reason why so many big companies are trying to sell us on this idea about mobile being the future. Again, from a technical standpoint, it's perfectly viable, but at an ethical level, the platform is rightfully rejected by traditional gamers, and I honestly doubt Blizzard is even attempting to change that perception with this game. Thus far it seems they're just seeking to ride that profit wave hinging on dubious business practices. It doesn't need to be that way, as the Switch's version of D3 demonstrates.

If Blizzard actually wanted mobile to not be regarded as a dirty place, they'd already have a strong stance on monetization, and wouldn't tapdance around the subject like they've done thus far. They tapdance precisely because they know how dirty it is. Do you honestly believe these games somehow get developed and get their monetization sorted out afterwards? It would be a stupid thought to entertain, considering how deeply rooted most of these monetization systems are within the core gameplay mechanics. Just look at what the auction house did to D3 back at launch. The game never fully recovered from that nonsense, although they did manage to address a good amount of the problems that thing caused.

02/22/2019 11:00 PMPosted by Imperius
Just because some fools would spend hundreds of dollars to git guud as fast as possible doesn't mean a game is pay to win.

True, but it speaks rather loudly about the way their games follow a template explicitly designed to push players into their respective cash shops. The prospect of uncapped monetization sadly leads many developers to compromising a game's integrity and the shameless trivialization of the players' time for the sake of profit, and there's nothing you can do to defend that. It's perfectly reasonable to expect Immortal to follow that exact same template, because this MO has been working thus far for Netease. In fact, I'd consider it completely unreasonable to expect otherwise. If they manage to prove this fears wrong, I'll gladly eat my words and celebrate it, but for the time being, I'll just go with what we know about this company and assume it's just going to try to shamelessly pry players' wallets open whenever the hell they want to pick into them.
02/22/2019 01:38 PMPosted by Imperius
Buy or don’t buy, this is the extent of your power.


I've seen Thorns of the Invoker and the Armor of Akkhan sets elevated to top tier options for would be Crusader LB pushers as well as becoming farming options or bounty running options. I was one of the only people advocating for the former via the official forums and I was inclusive in the large group of Sader players advocating for the latter. I doubt that either set would be where it is now without the positive and constructive feedback provided by players.

One thing I take great pride in is seeing people ranking and having fun with Thorns of the Invoker. Years of hard work breaking down the sets mechanics,writing posts, dealing with trolls, collaborating with other community members paying off; and it's so much more rewarding because lots of people are enjoying it and playing it rather than something that only myself and a small group of people could enjoy.

Buy or don't is not the extent of our power. it's too bad that there are people who are so beaten down like you that they don't think that they can influence product or have a right to do that as a customer or potential customer.

0/10 troll on your OP.
Some people actually care about what is put in front of them, and some will shovel in crap and thank the source without demanding better. I guess we all know the OP is a plant but I'm not going to sit around eating what they produce just because it's there. I'm blessed with legs and choice. Good luck to the OP with his future of laying around dining on predigested 'leftovers'.
02/22/2019 11:31 PMPosted by Imperius
And yet there's plenty of evidence they are working on a new Diablo game that will eventually be announced...


One guy writing an article based on anonymous sources that at one time Blizz had 2 games under production (one assumed to be DI), is hardly plenty of evidence. There is also zero evidence that if they still have another game under production that it is a new PC title.

Any game under potential production could be:
2nd mobile trash game
D1/D2 remaster
D4
Diablo Kart or Super Diablo Bros. for the Switch.
Diablo MMO
Diablo FPS

If you have some concrete evidence other than "some guy in an article said so", then let's see it.
How in the world did Imperius survive the Blizzard firings?
02/22/2019 01:38 PMPosted by Imperius
There is this wide spread notion that Blizzard must give people exactly what they want and when they want it.


I personally never got what I wanted from Diablo 2 or 3 devs.

But that is not the real deal.

I accept whatever comes and try to make the best of it.

This leaves me basically happy with the game because I know nothing I do will change the devs mind.

I choose happy.
02/24/2019 07:24 AMPosted by Howdypardner
How in the world did Imperius survive the Blizzard firings?


He does it for free LMAO
02/24/2019 10:13 AMPosted by Dan
He does it for free LMAO

There is that old saying, "You get what you pay for".
'No such thing as a right to get what you want'

depends per country
depends per lvl of darknet you dig

internet has an unsure future:
-China version stays
-Freedom version starts

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