Pain Enhancer Lag?

General Discussion
02/05/2019 03:57 PMPosted by Nevalistis
Thanks so much for your patience and understanding while we work to improve your gameplay experience!
Wow. A rare, useful, and much appreciated post... Thanks, N.
02/05/2019 10:37 PMPosted by Slamboney
02/05/2019 03:31 PMPosted by Fanatic
dot over time
Damage over Time over time?

I bet you're one of the guys that says, "ATM (Automatic Teller Machine) machine."


RPG game.
Reminds me of when last we saw a huge bump in power creep.... Pain Enhancer and Area Damage with high density causes server lag.
On the subject of density, It's not really much fun to herd mobs all the time. Maybe they can fix this issue while they fix the lag issue. :)
Don't forget about blue gob lag. For some reason in 4p those things lag the living stuff out of the game, even if they're the only thing on-screen. I'm not concerned about game play surrounding these gobs, but wonder if there may be some connection between the 2 sets of lag.
02/05/2019 08:10 PMPosted by Alexismad
02/05/2019 06:15 PMPosted by strawbrrygrl
Not sure how this silly mob density we got now ever became a thing since the game engine wasn't meant for it in the first place. And also more mobs doesn't really improve much in the end experience. Killing a pack of ten mobs can feel just as rewarding as killing a pack of 100.


Slaughtering scores of monsters is fun.
Playing hide and go seek with monsters is not.
I would rather see lower density and harder mobs with better AI and interesting mechanics that must be learned through practice. But won't be like that in d3, hopefully D4.
02/05/2019 08:12 AMPosted by Twoeagles
I had not heard of this before today, but while in a public 100+ gr, I was told it was the cause of the game lag. Please devs, if this is so could you kindly post something about it, like if it's actually true (I read a few posts of it happening to others) and if there is a timeline or plan even to fix this issue.

In the meantime, my DH uses gogok, pain enhancer and bane of the trapped. So, I'm seeking opinions about a good replacement stone, considering bane of stricken or taeguk... comments or suggestions are welcome, thx. I have a custom build based on the popular shadow build, with attack speed and dmg being primary.

Edit note: I don't see lag from this in solo, just multiplayer.

:}{:


my best friends sisters boyfriend heard from this guy, who knows this kid, who said it on the internet so it must be true
Dot and area damage is know to create a lot of lag in high end rifts where the damage and mob density becomes high in order to make solid times for speed farming or pushing.

Pe is one of the gems where it needs a make over and take away the damage it does and simply turn it into a damage increase for each mob hit in the last 20 seconds in a 20 yard radius. Or something of that kind.

Skills were revamped for this exact reason. And the same reason why people don’t like witch doctors running fire bats in high grifts. Causing way too much lag to make it playable / enjoyable
At least change the GEM name to Lag Enhancer.
02/06/2019 12:42 PMPosted by Prology
At least change the GEM name to Lag Enhancer.


Unnecessary, the lag is the cause of pain.
02/05/2019 06:15 PMPosted by strawbrrygrl
This lag has been in the game since vanilla. And the community managers and developers has been avoiding the topic since then. The server lag has been improved somewhat since you removed a lot calculations from the game but it's still here.

Give servers more processing power you won't do because it costs money and D3 is in hibernation mode. Might also not even help with more processing power.

Make the calculations (server side) more efficient you won't do because it costs money and D3 is in hibernation mode. Might also not help with problem anyway.

An easy fix that wouldn't cost much at all would be to just remove a lot of the mobs in the game. Look at early gameplay in the D3 engine and you see that the guys who built the game never intended mob desnity to be even close to these extreme levels it is now.

In vanilla you could get the server lag if you really tried. For example use a wd to train every mob in fields of misery. But apart from cheesy plays like that it pretty much never occured. Now once we got rifts etc that same server lag started to occur in every four man game. And even when pushing for solo as a barb pain enhancer or too big packs was a niche nicht. And it took freaking years before anything was done to fix it.

Not sure how this silly mob density we got now ever became a thing since the game engine wasn't meant for it in the first place. And also more mobs doesn't really improve much in the end experience. Killing a pack of ten mobs can feel just as rewarding as killing a pack of 100.

So just nerf density hard and it's fixed. It's such an easy fix. But power creep we must have, yes. Cannot have game without power creep. With no power creep we might lose people from the player base (one guy of the five still playing).

[/quote]

This nephalem is 100% right in every sentence he wrote in this post.

D3 is slowly moving to maintenance mode no matter what players are hoping for. Let's be real. You may accept this and enjoy what's left or you can move on and enjoy something else.

There will be no major updates, engine overhauls or any other significant changes. Only small changes which classic games team can do working at the same time on D3, WC3 and SC/Remaster and later WC3 Reforged.

However after all these patches and changes D3 engine is incapable to handle high mob density (usually in higher GRs where you cannot kill them fast enough) and at some point we get a bottleneck (and lags and freezes) when game engine gets overwhelmed with number of calculations it has to do for every single mob in pulled group (oversimplified but close enough to the reality).

So if D3 team wants to resolve this issue with lags and freezes - they have actually 3 options:
- significant game engine changes to improve performance but I highly doubt they have resources and approval for it;
- try to optimize calculations if there are still places left in the code where they can cut some corners - but it might be time consuming too and the result is not guaranteed;
- make some tuning to mobs and density to get rid of situations where engine is close to bottleneck with number of calculations.

The last option is actually low hanging fruit and is very easy to implement without any heavy development. All you need to do (and D3 devs already did it a few times in the past) is to adjust mobs health and number of mobs and experience per mob kill to find a sweet spot where engine is still running smooth and there are still some mobs to kill in the rift (but without extremes like kill the only 5 fat mobs whole 15 minutes in one GR).

Basically if there will be like only 100 mobs in whole rift but every last of them will have like 10x more health and will give you 10x exp comparing to now - you actually will not feel the difference in completing the rift. But game engine will be running smooth no matter what. You can still pull all 100 of them in one pile and kill all of them without lags with your favorite build - exactly in the same time as you do right now with 1000 mobs and lags.
02/05/2019 04:46 PMPosted by KeenDzaDza
02/05/2019 04:35 PMPosted by Prology
most maps with walls and good mob density. not open maps oddly enough no matter how packed.

With walls you mean like Keep Depths from Act 3, Ruin of Corvus from Act 5 or Caverns and Sewers from Act 2?
I'll try them specifically when I get home this evening. It's interesting if map's environment itself plays some role in producing lags.

I ran various GR105-109 solo in season within 3 hours yesterday in the evening. I got all type of maps in GRs including open maps with high density and some with walls and high density - as you mentioned. I had no lags and freezes using Pain Enhancer and Shadow Impale build - no lags at all.

Unexpectedly I managed to complete GR109 at paragon 880, no caldesans, leg gems BoT 106, Gogok 100, PE 71, and only 5 ancient items (weapon, ring, boots, shoulders and gloves) at 14:59.450
It was a blast :D - I did a happy dance right after that
02/06/2019 03:26 PMPosted by KeenDzaDza
I ran various GR105-109 solo

So what? This is the subject:
02/05/2019 03:57 PMPosted by Nevalistis
we have identified an issue with lag that arises primarily at high Greater Rift levels (100+) in 4-man groups
02/06/2019 03:48 PMPosted by Jazz
02/06/2019 03:26 PMPosted by KeenDzaDza
I ran various GR105-109 solo

So what? This is the subject:
02/05/2019 03:57 PMPosted by Nevalistis
we have identified an issue with lag that arises primarily at high Greater Rift levels (100+) in 4-man groups


Prology said that he has lags and freezes when he is using PE with S6 solo on GR80+ when maps are with walls and high density. I do not have lags on such maps and I did additional runs to make sure that on such maps I do not see the lags.

Did you read the whole blue post or only sentence you quoted? How about that:
02/05/2019 03:57 PMPosted by Nevalistis

I want to clarify that Pain Enhancer, specifically, isn't necessarily the culprit here. However, we have identified an issue with lag that arises primarily at high Greater Rift levels (100+) in 4-man groups. While we sometimes see issues arise in other cases, these high-intensity areas are where the issue appears most reliably.

[/quote]
How about "primarly", "other cases", "PE isn't necessarily the culprit here" and most importantly "where the issue appears most reliably"? 4-man group GR100+ is just the most reliable and easy way for them to repeat the issue.
You're still off the subject Keen.
02/06/2019 04:26 PMPosted by Jazz
You're still off the subject Keen.

Am I? But whatever. I will be more than happy if they fix the lags and freezes one way or another. And do not break anything else in the process.
02/06/2019 04:26 PMPosted by Jazz
You're still off the subject Keen.

No, he's not. The blue post says the issue is primarily apparent in high level 4-man GRs. That word, primarily, is important as it indicates it's not the only place the issue can occur. Just because it's mainly 4-mans that are affected doesn't preclude solo runs also being affected to a lesser extent.
Sure, and Keen just tries to prove that there is no lag in solo GR 105 to 109 GRs.

The lag players complain about is multiplayer high GRs with high density.
02/07/2019 02:13 AMPosted by Jazz
Sure, and Keen just tries to prove that there is no lag in solo GR 105 to 109 GRs.

The lag players complain about is multiplayer high GRs with high density.

I've been running solo GR115s on my non-season DH to improve her Caldesann's and I've occasionally experienced lag in high density, whilst my latency remained in the 40-60ms range. She's not using Pain Enhancer and has no bleed effects. So, as I said, whilst the issue may primarily be in 4-mans, it's not just in 4-mans.
So therefore it would help if someone came up and said. I've been running 115 grifts for three hours without any lag at all.

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