Ranged mobs make me want to quit D3

General Discussion
02/10/2019 08:43 PMPosted by Sarnen
thats the build I'm using, and I'm debating going back to impale. I honestly don't understand why people love this build so much, it's made of paper.


Use wraps of clarity instead of nems if you are doing anything meaningful. Those
2-4 extra elites aren't worth dieing 25 times in the grift. For farming nems is fine, and I use the elusive ring because damage isn't a problem on T13. For your jewelry, use focus/restraint. Compass Rose/Travelers Pledge requires you to stand still for the damage boost and UE dh is not a stand still build. Convention of elements can go in your cube, or if you are dieing too much use an elusive ring. UE is a fun build, but is very glass cannon and you need to vault around a lot.
The day I started playing the Impale build was yet another instance when the axiom I coined for this game was reinforced yet again:

"Blizzard giveth and Blizzard taketh away, usually at the same time."

After the improvement to the Holy Point Shot quiver, the Shadow's Mantle build became one of the most powerful in the game; an astounding single-target build. But every time I play that set, I am completely overwhelmed with "white trash" enemies that make it literally impossible to play that build us a single target set, because usually you have to clear the entire area around your target in order to get a clear shot at it.

I have the feeling that the OP is experiencing what I have described here while he is playing that set, because neither the Multishot or Sentry builds suffer (as badly) from the same problem, at least that's been my experience.

The D3 developers are a conundrum in this respect; they will create an outstanding high mobility, single-target set, but then to counterbalance its power, completely overwhelm it with worthless, annoyance mobs so that it's impossible to get a clear shot on your target.

A moment to digress…

Ancient items suffer from this same backwards, self-defeating philosophy. Since some properties on Ancient items can roll so much higher than normal Legendary items, the "weighting" - the chance to be selected - of damage dealing properties is much lower, and the midpoint selection range of damage dealing properties and Legendary powers is further down the scale. For example, the Legendary glove Magefist can roll 15-20% Fire Damage, and you'll get normal Legendary ones at 18-20% all day long. But Ancient examples of that Legendary item will show 15-18% normally, with that 19-20% being the super-desirable outlier.

Pretty much all Ancient items have this characteristic.

Why Blizzard feels they have to do anything to counteract the power of powerful items, powerful sets, powerful builds... I'll never know.
02/10/2019 09:19 PMPosted by Slamboney
After the improvement to the Holy Point Shot quiver, the Shadow's Mantle build became one of the most powerful in the game; an astounding single-target build. But every time I play that set, I am completely overwhelmed with "white trash" enemies that make it literally impossible to play that build us a single target set, because usually you have to clear the entire area around your target in order to get a clear shot at it.

That's why you use all your free vaults (from the belt) to position yourself right up in front of the elites (after vaulting through them) no matter how thick the density is. Admittedly, finding small champions and other small elites can be difficult at times.
As a PS; your hardcore seasonal UE DH farming build would benefit much more from using Bane of the Powerful instead of Stricken. Stricken stacks only work on one monster at a time. Powerful gives 20% more damage to all monsters - plus the elite buff/debuff.
They have ignored overtuned trash for years, my monk gets trashed by thoes infernal demon crawlers that shoot fire under your feet meanwhile i can stand in orbiter frozen and mortar from elites all day. Im not a fan of trash having stronger inate abilities than elites in quantities in the dozens at once.
02/09/2019 04:43 PMPosted by Wyrmheart
At least the succubi can be dodged, the goat men spears are so small that they are almost impossible to dodge.


You need to start dodging the spears before you can see them. If you wait until the spear is thrown, then it's likely already too late. See the attack's trajectory before it comes.

Ranged mobs are both the most challenging and most fun mob types for me. It's what makes DH gameplay so rewarding.
02/10/2019 08:44 PMPosted by Sarnen
02/10/2019 07:08 PMPosted by Varadia
A quick peek at your seasonal DH kinda shows why you are getting killed so easily.


You saw me in my multishot farm set with no gems? Profound insight.


Neither your UE or your Hybrid are properly geared. Maybe instead of just posting a complaint about the game, you might ask for ideas on how to improve gear and strategy.
Well my barbarian gets annihilated by the same enemy types. I’m not geared super well right now, as drops have just not been kind to me this season. However, I’m stuck at 67 or 68, and even 65 and up has be being destryoed by ranged mobs I can’t avoid all the time.

Maybe when I get better gear to drop, haha. I’m not on farming status just yet...
02/11/2019 10:36 AMPosted by Avenge
Maybe when I get better gear to drop, haha. I’m not on farming status just yet...

Like Band of Might in cube. Could also put diamonds in chest and pants and use War Cry/ Veterans Warning.
I have the feeling that the OP is experiencing what I have described here while he is playing that set, because neither the Multishot or Sentry builds suffer (as badly) from the same problem, at least that's been my experience..

You are forgetting the M6 build using Cluster Bombs, which some play. With EW its practically a melee build and after RORG season it will be very fishy to play in 110+. I cross my fingers for a fix to that but since its not a popular build I suspect it will be forgotten.
02/11/2019 10:00 AMPosted by RedCell
You need to start dodging the spears before you can see them. If you wait until the spear is thrown, then it's likely already too late.


Normally I would completely agree with you. But this doesn't work when there can be as many as 75 of them around you at any given moment. It just doesn't. You can't dodge them fast enough, eventually you get pinned. I would endless vault, just to get closer to the exit, once out of vault juice, no amount of moving was going to save you. And if you chose to try to murder your way through, that mean you had to stop moving to fire and bam. Dead.
From what I have found , the rifts seem to run in cycles where you will get floors that are full of elemental throwers and ranged attacks . Then after a while better floors will go for a while that are fair play .

But we are talking greater rifts here . Greater rifts are designed to be a challenge , to test how good we can use our skills . If you can't do the floors presented then quit the rift and start over until you get something you can manage .

When you get started pushing high levels of play you are going to need plenty of keys . So farm a lot of them . And don't expect more out of yourself and your playing skill , because if you do , it will become frustration .

Play the game , and have fun . If you need help from forums to better your play , then ask . If you try to go it alone without learning you will get tired of it and you will probably quit . Me , I am not a quitter . And you shouldn't quit either OP . Just learn your limits and play best you can .

There are many factors involved as to how well you can play the game and survive the challenges . And like I said . If you get floors that are impossible for you to play , start a new game until you get what you can handle .

GL & HF
02/10/2019 09:00 PMPosted by Alexismad
02/10/2019 08:43 PMPosted by Sarnen
thats the build I'm using, and I'm debating going back to impale. I honestly don't understand why people love this build so much, it's made of paper.


Use wraps of clarity instead of nems if you are doing anything meaningful. Those
2-4 extra elites aren't worth dieing 25 times in the grift. For farming nems is fine, and I use the elusive ring because damage isn't a problem on T13. For your jewelry, use focus/restraint. Compass Rose/Travelers Pledge requires you to stand still for the damage boost and UE dh is not a stand still build. Convention of elements can go in your cube, or if you are dieing too much use an elusive ring. UE is a fun build, but is very glass cannon and you need to vault around a lot.

I don't push in nems, I just toss it on for various reasons and people look at my profile and think I'm using that for pushing. I wonder waht they'd say looking at my monk's hybrid set
Not going to suggest the OP should "git gud" but.....

I'm running a UE Multishot DH in Hardcore mode and i dont have this problem with mobs, despite not being a melee class. The trick is to learn how to play to the class's strengths not attempt to ignore mechanics or faceroll a fight coz you're too lazy to use defensive skills.
02/10/2019 08:43 PMPosted by Sarnen
02/10/2019 02:02 PMPosted by Blashyrkh
Idk how it is for wizards, but for DHs, vault pretty much trivializes ranged attacks unless you expect to remain rooted spamming your biggest attacks. Have you tried a N6M4 setup? It really offers a metric ton of control that renders these things into little kittens, and is in my experience, far sturdier than any other DH build I've used eve in post GR100 difficulty.

I agree spearmen in particular are disproportionally stronger than other monsters, but even in large amounts remain fairly manageable for a decent DH.

thats the build I'm using, and I'm debating going back to impale. I honestly don't understand why people love this build so much, it's made of paper.


You are suppose to play at far range with this build. I've done GR100 with just a normal Nat slayer with this build. You should be using frostburn in cube as the chance of freezing normal mobs is quite good and diamonds for more resistance in elite fights. Vault and regroup if you get overwhelmed with elites and normal mobs. Also why are you using diamond in helm when you should be using topaz gem? Spamming more CA will kill faster and reduce cooldown further than a diamond in helm.

But I agree for some builds, those 20 or so normal range mobs can kill any semi- tanky character in solo play. Problem with GR is that the type of mobs for each rift is limited and so they spam the number of those limited type of mobs. Hence the large number of same type of mob.
I'd rather face them on my DH than any melee class. Even the tankiest melee class have to get in kill range to do damage while I can clear them from a far as ranged. Scubbi is a little better since they scream while firing and their fire ball moves slow, but goat spearman hits like a truck and their projectiles moves fast, almost impossible to dodge. What you can do as DH is out ranging or out maneuvering them.
02/10/2019 08:43 PMPosted by Sarnen
02/10/2019 02:02 PMPosted by Blashyrkh
Idk how it is for wizards, but for DHs, vault pretty much trivializes ranged attacks unless you expect to remain rooted spamming your biggest attacks. Have you tried a N6M4 setup? It really offers a metric ton of control that renders these things into little kittens, and is in my experience, far sturdier than any other DH build I've used eve in post GR100 difficulty.

I agree spearmen in particular are disproportionally stronger than other monsters, but even in large amounts remain fairly manageable for a decent DH.

thats the build I'm using, and I'm debating going back to impale. I honestly don't understand why people love this build so much, it's made of paper.

You aren't supposed to tank anything with this build. It thrives on control to keep a distance for both you and your sentries in order to maximize your Zei's potential damage output. Freezing stuff with RoV and the slow component of the polar station rune for your sentries offers a massive amount of control, plus using Frostburn gauntlets if you happen to use the maelstorm rune for sentries adds yet another source of CC to keep things in check, and unlike Shadow, it doesn't have to seek for windows to poke the elite in the midst of a metric ton of mobs, because the AoE potential is just massive with the build.

Made of paper? Not sure what you mean there, because I usually have a relatively decent amount of toughness that allows me to take a couple hits. It usually floats between 400m and 650m, depending on how much I move thanks to the Endless Walk set, and I haven't even started augmenting my gear yet. Perhaps if you stopped focusing on artificial toughness via %health and replaced those emeralds for Diamonds alongside a decent amount of base resists you'd have a lot less trouble soaking damage. A lot of health is useless when anything cuts through it like butter.
Lol these responses. I'm not sure you're aware, but literally the entire thing I'm complaining about in the OP is mobs that are able totally negate defensive skills through vortex, teleporting, or just spamming the screen with arrows/succubi bolts that cannot be avoided. I'm not saying I should or want to facetank, I'm saying the mechanics of mobs and tiny maps like the caves etc forces the issue.

Try reading, then try again.
02/12/2019 02:16 PMPosted by Sarnen
Try reading, then try again.

Follow your own advice. And maybe find some guides on how to set up different builds. You started by having a poor UE DH. Now your N6M4 is also a mess.
02/12/2019 03:34 PMPosted by Jazz
02/12/2019 02:16 PMPosted by Sarnen
Try reading, then try again.

Follow your own advice. And maybe find some guides on how to set up different builds. You started by having a poor UE DH. Now your N6M4 is also a mess.

Do you not understand that I'm using builds for things other than pushing? that my UE DH is purely for speedfarming t13 rifts for keys? LIke of course I wouldn't go into a GR past 80 or so with that.
02/12/2019 05:01 PMPosted by Sarnen
02/12/2019 03:34 PMPosted by Jazz
...
Follow your own advice. And maybe find some guides on how to set up different builds. You started by having a poor UE DH. Now your N6M4 is also a mess.

Do you not understand that I'm using builds for things other than pushing? that my UE DH is purely for speedfarming t13 rifts for keys? LIke of course I wouldn't go into a GR past 80 or so with that.

I wrote that it was poor and lacking for both t13 and GRs (even GRs lower than 80). Nevermind that. On your N6M4 you should have rerolled the Rain of Vengeance affix, your bracers have the wrong element (fire when you use a cold skill) and you should use diamonds in chest and pants.

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