PTR NOTES UP: Patch 2.6.5

Demon Hunter
Check it out guys, nothing new for us DHs but lots of QoL changes (T14-16 w00t!!) and s17 LoN:

https://us.diablo3.com/en/blog/22933131/patch-265-ptr-preview-3-29-2019

Plus if you liked Capt America Sader, you're gonna be happy lol

And that Sage buff... :o
I read through the notes but I don't think the LoN buff will help DH that much. Assuming 13 ancients are equipped, the multiplier is 98.5x to all damage. Compare this to the UE6 bonus of 302x (assuming 86 discipline) which isn't even including the 4 piece 1.6 bonus! Even the N6 bonus (141x) is higher than the LoN 13 ancient bonus.

Of course, while using LoN you can use more ancients with legendary powers to offset the loss of the set bonuses but there don't seem to be too many really strong options. For example, comparing LoN multishot and UE multishot:

LoN damage multiplier = 98.5x
LoN toughness multiplier = 2.083x
Focus/Restraint and Compass/Pledge prohibited!
Extras: Cindercoat 20% fire/30% fire rcr, Magefist 20% fire, Hexing Pants 25% damage/25% hatred generation, Visage of Gunes 50% damage reduction (nothing really interesting for shoulders/boots)

UE4+6 damage multiplier = 483.2x
UE4 toughness multiplier = 2.5x
Focus/Restraint or Compass/Pledge allowed!

Since you can just cube the Visage of Gunes, the toughness comparison is largely in favor of UE and the damage is way in favor of UE (40% fire, 30% fire rcr, 25% moving damage, 25% moving resource generation is no where near enough). I didn't even include the Endless Walk or Bastions of Will set bonuses with UE!

Thus, to even consider LoN, we need to only consider skills which do NOT have synergy with another set (e.g. not multishot, not cluster arrow, etc.) which leaves us with stuff like Spike Trap, Rapid Fire, and Strafe (all of which were NOT buffed in any way like Blessed Shield was).

Therefore, as the situation stands (which it will likely change), the LoN buff is next to worthless for us!
Heh... I had saved up over 40 ancient Puzzles then burned them all. Still have 2 primals though.
03/29/2019 12:04 PMPosted by Varadia
Heh... I had saved up over 40 ancient Puzzles then burned them all. Still have 2 primals though.


I'm calling shotgun on those primals for when you put them in the Cube, Var! :D
LoN is useless for DHs. Natalya already adds 14k% and buffs everything. And it works only because of LGF nuke. Even S2 has more damage if you have a ring set.
03/29/2019 01:02 PMPosted by Kindergarten
LoN is useless for DHs.
For now yes, but I was hoping for some crazy Rapid Fire overhaul. While Rapid Fire is still stronger with Natalya's, if they made the Wojhanni Assaulter stack to say 20+ and with a higher multiplier, then LoN might be better(you need to stop channeling to use RoV every 8 seconds if using Natalya's).
03/29/2019 01:06 PMPosted by Iria
For now yes,


Well item updates are mostly for WD, Necro and Sader (one wizzard item). Which does make some sense, as these 3 classes are probably the least played in S16.
Necro is still top tier in groups and a great support - but they got nothing with the last patch so not many wanted to play it.

I doubt that there is something coming for RF. And the skill doesn't really work in the current game. You need to hit multiple enemies to scale. Single target is already dealt with S6. And even S6 needs to vault a lot - with RF you have to stand.

If we !@#$% and moan enough in the PTR forum they maybe through a "Elemental Arrow does [300-400] more damage" for Krider at us.

However - maybe it's time to play another class next season. The LoN Bomb Sader did always looked like it is fun. Also never really played WD.
I wrote this on the general forum:

Very cool QoL changes. When it comes time to playing DH in S17, there is little incentive.

DH's set damage modifiers are way past the benefit of LoN w/ extra rings.

There's only one skill that has a modern legendary power, Lord Greenstone's Fan -- and playing LoN FoK is an acquired taste.

Here's what I suggest:

1. Make Lord Greenstone's Fan's buff sync with the CoE cycle and up the power. 15 sec @ 1000%. Allow the buff to last 2 seconds after triggering FoK, this way the other runes could be considered (ie. knives expert).

2. Please buff Chakram and Elemental Arrow legendary items, so there is another good reason play S17 as DH (with traditional sets). Either increase the power of Augustine Panacea/Sword of Ill Will or make them compatible with primary skill buffs (hunters wrath, depth diggers, simplicity strength).

3. Re-enable S2M4, so we can have another competitive hybrid. (Requires #2)
Really cool QoL changes.

I'm hoping this is just "round one" of changes because as everyone has mentioned already, LoN is practically useless for DH. I'm sad that with the Devs knowing this that we also did not get any buffs to our existing legendary's either.

Unfortunate.
interested to see how the reward/xp structure changes with the new Torments.

How many more bounty mats/legs/etc in the new levels and what's the scaling?

I wish they'd scale up the XP in normal rifts to make them more rewarding for doing key/mat runs...

5 new stash tabs?? hoarders unite! - Actually I think this is great especially with the added armory slots. No more mules.

Mav/Var - I've got a dozen ancient Puzzles waiting!
The sages change is pretty big, I guess. If we now get 2-3 DBs at T13 it might be 4 at T15/16. Double that with sages buff.

So everybody will run a farm build with Sages in publics which should make T16 not trivial anymore (at least for DHs with N6 MS variant).
03/30/2019 01:43 PMPosted by Kindergarten
The sages change is pretty big, I guess. If we now get 2-3 DBs at T13 it might be 4 at T15/16. Double that with sages buff.

So everybody will run a farm build with Sages in publics which should make T16 not trivial anymore (at least for DHs with N6 MS variant).


Yeah man, my Sunwuko Sage Monk is gonna get a LOT of work after this patch. Assuming extra bounty mats at T16 as well, farming won't be as much of a horrible chore as it is now at least.

Akkhan Sage Sader will also work very well too.
What do you think about this solution for LoN?

Theory craft any flagship DH LoN build and it will be stronger if you build it on N6.

I want all of those recommendations put into effect (was talking about Idolis'), one thing though, there is no clean path to play LoN competitively, within and outside of the DH class.

LoN: 98.5 * Hellfire Amulet * SoJ * Andariel
N6(Endless Walk): 141 * 2
N6(F&R): 141 * 2.25 * Hellfire

We need a weapon that cannot easily fit into the N6 schematic.

It should be a 1h melee weapon, restricted to skills: Rapid Fire, Strafe, FoK and Spike Traps. Reproducing the N6 equivalent should require a damage sacrifice, you won't be able to wear it because RoV requires a bow, you can only cube it. Which means no FoK buff for N6, or no dawn for pure Strafe/Rapid Fire. The item needs to do 150% damage to bridge the gap between N6 and LoN. (sorry no double dagger channeling bonuses, this is a cubed item only, thx Volatility).

This all should be done in combination with desired weapon dmg upgrades(wojanni, sin seekers, kmar, vallas, lgf), this way the player can choose either N6 or LoN. I think this will solve all problems, even allowing Non-Seasonal S2M2 FoK to be semi competitive as well.
03/31/2019 05:32 PMPosted by dmkt
Theory craft any flagship DH LoN build and it will be stronger if you build it on N6.
I would disagree with this in regards to Rapid Fire, N6 makes you cast RoV which cancels Taeguk and Wujanni's bonus. RF is best used with LoN atm IMO, or at least plays smoothest with LoN. If RF was added to a different set, or if they made it so RoV could be cast while channelling RF, then it'd be fine. To my knowledge you can't squeeze RoV in between RF ticks like you can with Strafe.

The best solution IMO would be to make each class get there own dmg bonus corresponding to their needs. Like you said N6 gives 14,000 right away and can also add in EW or FnR, so that means our LoN value would probably have to be about 2250→2500% per ancient item.

Also, if I'm reading the patch notes correctly, we are going to get the LoN bonus without even wearing the rings. That means we can easily slot:
Oculus
CoE
OROTZ (best cubed cause of weird stats)
Elusive ring
etc

So we can definitely squeeze out a bit more damage than usual with LoN.

Maybe they could add an extra bonus to LoN:
"if wearing 13 ancient items, LoN bonuses are doubled"
but even that still wouldn't help us at the current values

and on a total side note, that you didnt even talk about:
I am vehemently against the idea of Primal Ancients getting a bigger bonus than regular ancients. It's a terrible idea.
Hey Tasty, thanks for sharing the knowledge on Rapid Fire. This got me curious so i tested it:

The drop in damage on Wojahnni is real, but isn't dramatic, it takes roughly 2 seconds to bring it back to 4 stacks. If you space out that RoV around the CoE cycle, it's not so bad. But you're right, it's damage loss. On LoN, you're gonna hold down the trigger, but if you vault or attempt to walk, the Wojahnni buff is gone -- you're F-ed either way.

Taeguk does survive Rain of Vengenace, you won't lose that buff.

I agree with your solution for LoN, class specific buff values is cleanest.
It's nice to see people still fighting the good fight. Meanwhile I'm over here thinking of pulling a Lebron James to the Capt America build :P
Would have been nice if they reviewed and tweaked The Demon's Demise crossbow (former seasonal-only drop) as a LoN weapon.

It feels like this weapon was unfulfilled potential when it came out.
Also, why are people excited for t14-t16?

We're finally able to see some variety in speed farming specs, and power creep in torment levels just means we need to pump more damage in sacrifice of speed again, just like greater rifts. Like my LoN spec could finally do t13 ezpz, and now it's fuhked again. Seems pretty pointless to add these, does nothing but make things even more cookie cutter.

Maybe someone can make counter arguments for why it's good, but I don't see it at all.
Also, why are people excited for t14-t16?

We're finally able to see some variety in speed farming specs, and power creep in torment levels just means we need to pump more damage in sacrifice of speed again, just like greater rifts. Like my LoN spec could finally do t13 ezpz, and now it's fuhked afain. Seems pretty pointless to add these, does nothing but make things even more cookie cutter.

Maybe someone can make counter arguments for why it's good, but I don't see it at all.


I don't know if "excited" is the word I'd use for higher torments, TS. But I am "encouraged" simply because it means more loot/rewards per farming hour. Assuming T16 = GR75, I don't see any of my speed builds being affected all that much, if at all. They're all still ridiculously overpowered and should be able to handle that level of difficulty no problem. So if it means more bounties/shards/legs/gold per hour then I'm happy with it.

I'm also marginally hopeful that this could indicate a continued effort from Blizz to maintain the game beyond just life support maintenance until D4 arrives. I'd be absolutely shocked if there's no tuning during PTR on DH specific items for S17 LoN. Barbs too. I mean, is Blizz seriously going to to an ENTIRE season where multiple classes will be completely abandoned??? Makes no sense at all to me.

I realize we're in the late late stages of this game. I just hope we can see occasional tweaks here and there to keep us active and interested.
Lots of players will be happy about t14 to 16. T13 becomes too easy but on the other hand they aren't interested in pushing or speed running GRs day after day. Doing the campaign over again could even be tempting if you're not too strong.

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