@ Nevalistis GR 150+ Cap needing Raise

General Discussion
https://i.imgur.com/JtI5ueG.png < just think if that could be never ending how far could you really go

its an image showing GR150 is the cap can't go beyond it so we get the question what do we do now wait for it to be rasied or uninstall the game since its complete

you hear people on PoE that delve down to 6000 so why can't we have D3 to goto the players highest thats the whole idea of the leaderboard right? is how far can you go or how fast
04/15/2019 10:57 AMPosted by Fathead
04/15/2019 06:03 AMPosted by Give
I also really do not understand why so many people seem to be so averse to changing something that does not affect them at all, but it really does affect the "elite" players.


In a nutshell.... when someone in the meta with loads of 150 clears and tons of 150 gems builds a WD and in 5 hours of playtime, gets a rank 1 on the WD LB --that will tend to piss off the rest of us WDs that soldier on knowing that we will never get in a meta group, or solo a 150.

Do you get it now?


Well that was with the PTR buff of getting a ton of free loot and a huge Paragon lead on PTR...

Anyways you are most likely never going to be a top clearing player if you refuse to play anything but WD or playing in a group, unless you put in some ludicrous time to compensate for your inefficiency or you just are an incredibly good player to compensate the lack of paragon.

All in all the competition in this game is in group play and honestly that is much much better than the time in vanilla where grouping you was actually hurting your progression.

I could see having some sort of solo only league though for people like you, but even then you would mostly be farming some sort of solo DH or solo Crusader or maybe next sesason Necro speeds and not playing your WD. The gap in efficiency would just not be as big.
04/15/2019 01:21 PMPosted by ENIAC
What is a leaderboard for you?
I think some here are forgetting that this is exactly numbers .... If you do not like it okay, but many like it and do not think it useless .. And yes for these players would "solve". Surely Blizzard will not implement anything new to this game, so your suggestion is that it does absolutely nothing because unlocking the cap is "useless" to YOU?

I am ranked very high in both 2 and 3 man. I consider I know what the leaderboard is all about. All my DPS gems are 150 and some to spare. However some of these were done by multiple clears at lower level before bazooka wiz became a thing by doing 1% gem ups. Now a paragon 2k players can jump on board and have the same 150 gems in a 1/10th of the time. Whatever. Yes I do help players at that level

Say they do raise the cap. Do you really think it will change the game? Personally I don't really care if they do I just don't believe it will solve anything. I would prefer as others have said that other characters need to be adjusted to play in the same high content.

One of the most ridiculous things is a thorns necro with absolutely no damage can kill a RG at 150 in less than a minute with a power pylon and right boss.

04/15/2019 11:25 AMPosted by Phatty
I'm not really sure why people think someone needs to clear 150 to render an opinion on this. Clear appeal to authority logical fallacy there.

Its not that someone needs to have cleared 150 but a few responses here act like they have. They use others as their benchmark so believe their authority is more valid than someone who opposes it.

@Phatty I have known you a long time back from the communities you used to run. So i do respect your input. Whether I agree or disagree
When every set can do 150 solo then it is time to increase it.
04/15/2019 04:35 PMPosted by Exalted
When every set can do 150 solo then it is time to increase it.

Yeah I'm sure people will have a blast this season when GR 150 turns into T13 speeds.
4 hours ago

04/15/2019 10:57 AMPosted by Fathead
04/15/2019 06:03 AMPosted by Give
I also really do not understand why so many people seem to be so averse to changing something that does not affect them at all, but it really does affect the "elite" players.

In a nutshell.... when someone in the meta with loads of 150 clears and tons of 150 gems builds a WD and in 5 hours of playtime, gets a rank 1 on the WD LB --that will tend to piss off the rest of us WDs that soldier on knowing that we will never get in a meta group, or solo a 150.

Do you get it now?

Well that was with the PTR buff of getting a ton of free loot and a huge Paragon lead on PTR...


That happens every regular season as well , another int dps ( like wiz) will use gems and gear to finish in the top 20 WD LB.... the PTR would speed that up, yes.

04/15/2019 03:25 PMPosted by Give
Anyways you are most likely never going to be a top clearing player if you refuse to play anything but WD or playing in a group


I don't want to have to roll another class to get para points and gemmed up for my WD. ...and I have no problem playing in groups, except that my class hasn't been in the meta since wiz starpact . Why should I have to spend time playing monk or wiz to boost my wd? That needs to be fixed first before anything like raising the GR cap, otherwise you'll have the same problem at the next limit.

04/15/2019 03:25 PMPosted by Give
I could see having some sort of solo only league though for people like you


How about just fixing the imbalance among classes? That needs to be the first order of business IMO, then you wont have folks like me complaining about raising a GR cap that I and others can't reach.
Forget infinite gr levels, we need some new content, end game content. Take notes from grim dawn and PoE.
GR cap can be increased in the future because after seeing T16 following Set buffs, I say why not. But please understand we're still a good 1-2 years away from it.

04/16/2019 01:39 AMPosted by Micah
Forget infinite gr levels, we need some new content, end game content. Take notes from grim dawn and PoE.


I doubt they have incentives, nor staff to do it. If they can not monetize it, they leave it for expiration date. It's that simple actually.
04/15/2019 08:12 PMPosted by Fathead
4 hours ago

04/15/2019 10:57 AMPosted by Fathead
04/15/2019 06:03 AMPosted by Give
I also really do not understand why so many people seem to be so averse to changing something that does not affect them at all, but it really does affect the "elite" players.

In a nutshell.... when someone in the meta with loads of 150 clears and tons of 150 gems builds a WD and in 5 hours of playtime, gets a rank 1 on the WD LB --that will tend to piss off the rest of us WDs that soldier on knowing that we will never get in a meta group, or solo a 150.

Do you get it now?

Well that was with the PTR buff of getting a ton of free loot and a huge Paragon lead on PTR...


That happens every regular season as well , another int dps ( like wiz) will use gems and gear to finish in the top 20 WD LB.... the PTR would speed that up, yes.

04/15/2019 03:25 PMPosted by Give
Anyways you are most likely never going to be a top clearing player if you refuse to play anything but WD or playing in a group


I don't want to have to roll another class to get para points and gemmed up for my WD. ...and I have no problem playing in groups, except that my class hasn't been in the meta since wiz starpact . Why should I have to spend time playing monk or wiz to boost my wd? That needs to be fixed first before anything like raising the GR cap, otherwise you'll have the same problem at the next limit.

04/15/2019 03:25 PMPosted by Give
I could see having some sort of solo only league though for people like you


How about just fixing the imbalance among classes? That needs to be the first order of business IMO, then you wont have folks like me complaining about raising a GR cap that I and others can't reach.


So you want every class to be just as good at everything as every other class? That is an absolutely herculean task and probably near impossible. Do you want every class to be able to heal or to generate globes or to dump all its ressources?

This also runs into the issue that consistent DPS in dense pulls (like Firebat) generally causes more lag than spike DPS (like with star pact)

Raising a GR cap should not be that hard and absolutely trivial compared to the task you asked for.

In general an unending difficulty scaling will generally mean there is some sort of best build or best setup for a specific task because even if multiple setups are closeish the very best will still dominate which makes the others seem nonexistant.

For example you could do 150 with a variety of bosskillers yet everyone does it with Thorns because it is just the most powerful in the right circumstances
04/16/2019 03:07 AMPosted by Give
Do you want every class to be able to heal or to generate globes or to dump all its ressources?


Changes to followers would do nicely for that actually.

04/16/2019 03:07 AMPosted by Give
So you want every class to be just as good at everything as every other class?


Actually I believe people just want an alternative to fill the roles in OR another meta. So far 4-man plays at around GR150 consist of two zdps build, one dps and one RGK; and each role dominated by one class only.
People simply says either change this meta for high level clears or find ways to bring some classes to be alternative to another. Now changing meta is hard, as it would cause them to nerf top tier classes by applying more utility for monsters or overhaul systems. So that leaves us with pushing forward more alternatives to Necro RGK, zdps monk/barb or Wiz dps-trash clear.
You guys always asking for alternatives but it just doesn't work that way. Even when you get it you will use the one that is slightly better or the one that more people request. There is always best option.

For example at 16 season start we had rats or dh/barb to choose for paragon farming. How many people played rats? And after dh/barb reached their limit people switched to LoN necro. How many of you still playing dh/barb paragon runs now?
Changes to followers would do nicely for that actually.


Changes to followers do not affect the group meta at all. Of course you could make followers do something other than Oculus Rings and minor buffs, but that is an entirely unrelated matter

04/16/2019 04:12 AMPosted by naksiloth
Actually I believe people just want an alternative to fill the roles in OR another meta. So far 4-man plays at around GR150 consist of two zdps build, one dps and one RGK; and each role dominated by one class only.


Well actually you could play other classes. You can use DH RGK just fine for example, you can use WD trashkiller. They just are not quite as good (well considering Archon Star Pact the gap is huge, but that build is just completely overpowered). For example on half the bosses roughly I would take a DH over the thorns necro on 150, but you won't get that insane time with a DH. You can't win the Bligther lottery and get the 1 minute bosskill.

In general if you have no maximum that is reasonably easy, you will have people play only the most optimal classes because it makes an actual difference.

On T13 on the other hand people are fine with you playing WD or Wizard or Barb something just because it does not matter as much even if it would be optimal for everybody to just play monk.

Another thing I touched on earlier is that the supports are only Monk and Barb because of the heal only Monk provides in this game and the pulling that only barb really provides (yes I know Crusader can do some, but not nearly as quickly or efficiently as barb can).

As for trashkiller another issue, why you see very little experimentation even outside of Star Pact is that pretty much all other trashkilling builds make the game lag out on smaller pulls than Archon Star Pact, which makes the game less enjoyable to play because it lags so much more and also reduces your DPS because you have to make smaller pulls.

Considering alternatives you generally just have to accept that people always gravitate towards what they think the best and then you get some trendsetting. For example starting out we had Barb and Rat Speeds this season, but by now pretty much everyone I know at least only does Rats anymore if they still do speeds, just because it is considered a little better.
04/16/2019 05:19 AMPosted by Stan
You guys always asking for alternatives but it just doesn't work that way. Even when you get it you will use the one that is slightly better or the one that more people request. There is always best option.

For example at 16 season start we had rats or dh/barb to choose for paragon farming. How many people played rats? And after dh/barb reached their limit people switched to LoN necro. How many of you still playing dh/barb paragon runs now?


Yes, you wrote the key word: “slightly better”. If there is a build, or a couple of builds, or a couple of classes “slightly better” than other ones, I think almost every player can accept this, and enjoy the game without complaining about every day. But nowadays there is NOT a build slightly better than other ones, there is simply a huge overpowered build that allow groups to clear very high GR in ridiculous time.

“OK” says Blizzard, “we aknowledge this fact, but we can’t/don’t nerf these mechanics”. Which path remain to pass through? That of create new builds for other classes supposed to stay at the same level of Star Pact. And I think the recently patch notes are supposed to be in this direction (think about BS Crusader, we’ll see if could be a reasonable trash killer). For instance, about Crusader there are tons of possibilities, Phalanx, Fist of the Heavens, which aren’t explored yet.

So the question must be: is for Blizzard economically worth do such work without monetize? Personally I would be ready to spend another 20-30€ for a new, good and balancing content. It’s true, D3 is becoming older every year, otherwise I believe it has enough potential for the next 3-4 years, at least.
04/16/2019 06:37 AMPosted by Give
(well considering Archon Star Pact the gap is huge, but that build is just completely overpowered)


Problem is exactly that actually.

04/16/2019 06:37 AMPosted by Give
For example on half the bosses roughly I would take a DH over the thorns necro on 150,


I doubt I saw any example at leaderboards about DH RGK either.
04/16/2019 06:57 AMPosted by Christyandos
I would be ready to spend another 20-30€ for a new


Well lots of us players were like in "shut up and take my money!" mode when they made Necro, I don't know why Bliss doesn't use the opportunity and make something new again. I personally don't care about balance because I understand that it's unreachable and unnecessary, but something like swing between class/build powers every season would be just fine (they actually trying that in last patches, but without much success).
'GR 150+ Cap needing Raise'

see? no Torment tweaking needed, because that won't solve anything posted in this thread.
-it's just boredom, coming from a PvP gaming preference...in an aRPG.
04/16/2019 07:29 AMPosted by naksiloth
I doubt I saw any example at leaderboards about DH RGK either.


Because in the ideal scenario Necro is just better so everyone runs wiht Necro. DH is just a little bit weaker than Necro and that is enough that nobody plays it at the highest tiers.
EU season, 4 players : GR150 in 7'05sec ...
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04/17/2019 05:57 AMPosted by SuperFrog
EU season, 4 players : GR150 in 7'05sec ...
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thats what where trying to say its a joke they need to raise it
I don't think we should have any caps in difficulty progression outside of a cap to catch bugs I. E. Safety cap of 200.

I still think there's a power creep issue that won't go away so, I still advocate changing the relative difficulty increase from 1.17 to something more graduated after grift 150.

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