Torment 20 please

General Discussion
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T13 is just way too easy. I don't mind the gradual power creep the way the gear is continually tweaked, but I feel the game would be better if it was kept a bit more challenging outside of Greater Rifts.

Not that T20 would really be THAT challenging. That would be equivalent to GR95? It's just a really painstaking experience grinding mats at T13 I find. Running bounties 20 times in a row, just to burn all those mats in 40 quick re-rolls of an item you're trying to upgrade.

Or alternatively. Since player segregation might become a bit of an issue. We could redo the torments. Re-number T1-11 to T1-7, then change T13 to T8, GR80 equivalent to T9, and GR100 equivalent to T10.

The new higher difficulty torments would drop more mats across the board of course. But rather than dropping more legendary and set items, they could just adjust the ancient and primal drop rates. In the GR80 torment, make ancients 1 in 15 and primals 1 in 300... then in the GR100, ancients 1 in 10, and primals 1 in 200.

Forgotten souls would come a little bit quicker just because the quality of the items would be a bit better. Additionally it accelerates the rate at which you can continue to gear when you're at that point where every item is augmented and you're just kinda hoping for better rolls on a few certain pieces.
Currently there are 17 difficulty levels in total. That's way too many already and you're asking for more? The number of difficulty levels needs to be cut in half and maybe rescaled a bit.

I'd like to point one thing: due to the gameplay design of D3, anything outside GRs is meant to be for farming, NOT challenge. I know this is a bit dumb design and to an extent I also agree but that's how things are. That's why even the highest difficulty level should one that can still be easily speedfarmed by every class.
You have a couple good points. Although I think most people would like to avoid the pain of clicking each resource better (the forums are filled with "can my pet pick it up" posts)

Here's another idea. Introduce some kind of "resource find." It's a pain that gold is the only resource with a modifier. Well, if you don't count Magic Find on Nagelring. All they gotta do is rework Emerald (Helm), or slap a unique passive on an item (there's still a few without any, maybe Rondel's Locket?).
03/16/2019 10:29 AMPosted by Eirhead
T13 is just way too easy. I don't mind the gradual power creep the way the gear is continually tweaked, but I feel the game would be better if it was kept a bit more challenging outside of Greater Rifts.

Not that T20 would really be THAT challenging. That would be equivalent to GR95? It's just a really painstaking experience grinding mats at T13 I find. Running bounties 20 times in a row, just to burn all those mats in 40 quick re-rolls of an item you're trying to upgrade.

Or alternatively. Since player segregation might become a bit of an issue. We could redo the torments. Re-number T1-11 to T1-7, then change T13 to T8, GR80 equivalent to T9, and GR100 equivalent to T10.

The new higher difficulty torments would drop more mats across the board of course. But rather than dropping more legendary and set items, they could just adjust the ancient and primal drop rates. In the GR80 torment, make ancients 1 in 15 and primals 1 in 300... then in the GR100, ancients 1 in 10, and primals 1 in 200.

Forgotten souls would come a little bit quicker just because the quality of the items would be a bit better. Additionally it accelerates the rate at which you can continue to gear when you're at that point where every item is augmented and you're just kinda hoping for better rolls on a few certain pieces.
Seriously go play the harder gr rifts at some point the gear is supposed to make max torment easy.
03/16/2019 11:00 AMPosted by Kirottu
I'd like to point one thing: due to the gameplay design of D3, anything outside GRs is meant to be for farming, NOT challenge. I know this is a bit dumb design


Yeah, "dumb" doesn't even begin to describe that design.

In all honesty, it's quite a shame that's the current state of the game.

But I do agree that adding more torments won't help in the long run, it'll merely progress towards some people asking for buffs so they can speedfarm the highest torment, and blizzard will inevitably cave and buff a majority of the sets for everyone so they could speedfarm the highest difficulty once again. Then a week after said buffs, you'll see "Need More Torment Difficulties" threads popping up again, just to repeat the cycle.
No.
03/16/2019 11:00 AMPosted by Kirottu
Currently there are 17 difficulty levels in total. That's way too many already and you're asking for more? The number of difficulty levels needs to be cut in half and maybe rescaled a bit.

I'd like to point one thing: due to the gameplay design of D3, anything outside GRs is meant to be for farming, NOT challenge. I know this is a bit dumb design and to an extent I also agree but that's how things are. That's why even the highest difficulty level should one that can still be easily speedfarmed by every class.


I see your point, and it's equally valid. But not everyone likes speed farm builds. It can be a pain to move at light speed, and manage to clear all the resources that drop. Unless, you're inclined to rely solely on the bounty caches. Then you can speed all bounties solo, or risk pub games.

It would be nice to settle into a damage build, and farm with it too. And that's the heart of this discussion.
03/16/2019 11:10 AMPosted by Oblivion
03/16/2019 11:00 AMPosted by Kirottu
I'd like to point one thing: due to the gameplay design of D3, anything outside GRs is meant to be for farming, NOT challenge. I know this is a bit dumb design


Yeah, "dumb" doesn't even begin to describe that design.

In all honesty, it's quite a shame that's the current state of the game.

But I do agree that adding more torments won't help in the long run, it'll merely progress towards some people asking for buffs so they can speedfarm the highest torment, and blizzard will inevitably cave and buff a majority of the sets for everyone so they could speedfarm the highest difficulty once again. Then a week after said buffs, you'll see "Need More Torment Difficulties" threads popping up again, just to repeat the cycle.


The "does more damage" strategy has been a lazy answer. But there aren't many answers out there that are any more settling. Playing other games, it's "create an OP character, then nerf it," or "add a similar boss that takes a 70 person raid to kill, instead of 60," or "you're not likely to beat this new level without this new item." Or, "more, and different, shiny micro-transactions", or "crappy quests to get things that are already in the store" or "exclusive quest loot." Limited time crap is the worst, because it's either useless things like skins (character, weapon, effects), or ruins balance patches for anyone that doesn't already have it somehow.
03/16/2019 11:16 AMPosted by Notsure1337
It can be a pain to move at light speed


Do you have a condition where wind hurts your skin?

Also gratz. Not only this is another troll roll thread by "pliz add 20 more Torment levels so every farming session slows down to a snail's pace and pushes fanbase to complain for another Set damage boost"; also I see a "I can not click once more to pickup loot in a loot based game, let my pet pick it up so I can idle" suggestion. That deserves a golf clap. You ask to diminish only thing you wrestle away from game's hands, that is your cooldown cycle and make it equal to GR pace.
This doesn't really fly when game had to stand for an integrity to divert between casual and dedicated playerbase. Oh well... Not like you aren't aware...

I'll add a golden addition to the thread though, listen up; "Increase 100 more GR tiers so casuals can catch hardcore players". Now that players hit GR150 and I didn't, it's my rightful right to ask for it.
Legit suggestion Blizzard, pliz add this or we start a riot at Reddit like always. Better if I can start from GR150 without having to reach there first.

What? Why game supposed to be about progress? I don't have to even click to grab loot anymore and we gonna have T20 which is equal to GR110 already. Only this will make me feel superior.
03/16/2019 11:16 AMPosted by Notsure1337
03/16/2019 11:00 AMPosted by Kirottu
Currently there are 17 difficulty levels in total. That's way too many already and you're asking for more? The number of difficulty levels needs to be cut in half and maybe rescaled a bit.

I'd like to point one thing: due to the gameplay design of D3, anything outside GRs is meant to be for farming, NOT challenge. I know this is a bit dumb design and to an extent I also agree but that's how things are. That's why even the highest difficulty level should one that can still be easily speedfarmed by every class.


I see your point, and it's equally valid. But not everyone likes speed farm builds. It can be a pain to move at light speed, and manage to clear all the resources that drop. Unless, you're inclined to rely solely on the bounty caches. Then you can speed all bounties solo, or risk pub games.

It would be nice to settle into a damage build, and farm with it too. And that's the heart of this discussion.


You don't need to speed farm to get high above the level of T13 in Greater Rifts.
03/16/2019 10:29 AMPosted by Eirhead
T13 is just way too easy. I don't mind the gradual power creep the way the gear is continually tweaked, but I feel the game would be better if it was kept a bit more challenging outside of Greater Rifts.


Well there is room currently for T14 through T16. Just made a quick graph to show what we could hope to expect besides a much needed and enjoyed challenge. I hope i can post it here.

https://imgur.com/6pfJUWz

Almost like permanent Double Bounties. Hard to tell in the graph. I should also add that everything T13 and below is as is in 2.6.4
03/16/2019 11:00 AMPosted by Kirottu
Currently there are 17 difficulty levels in total. That's way too many already and you're asking for more? The number of difficulty levels needs to be cut in half and maybe rescaled a bit.

I'd like to point one thing: due to the gameplay design of D3, anything outside GRs is meant to be for farming, NOT challenge. I know this is a bit dumb design and to an extent I also agree but that's how things are. That's why even the highest difficulty level should one that can still be easily speedfarmed by every class.


You can speedfarm a GR100 if you're geared/paragoned properly.

But to your first point. I did explain in my original post a way to just re-number the Torments so there are actually less difficulty settings. Torment 1-10 only. But 8 would be equivalent to current T13 difficulty, and the new 9 and 10 would be scaled up much higher for end game gearing. But still possible to speedfarm.

I didn't make my request as clear in my first post, but I would want a little bit of continued power creep as well. My suggestion there would be:
  • Buff the 6 piece set bonuses a little higher across the board.
  • Buff LoN: "as long as you don't have a 6 piece set bonus..."


Now the game is super interesting.
03/16/2019 12:03 PMPosted by Eirhead
03/16/2019 11:00 AMPosted by Kirottu
Currently there are 17 difficulty levels in total. That's way too many already and you're asking for more? The number of difficulty levels needs to be cut in half and maybe rescaled a bit.

I'd like to point one thing: due to the gameplay design of D3, anything outside GRs is meant to be for farming, NOT challenge. I know this is a bit dumb design and to an extent I also agree but that's how things are. That's why even the highest difficulty level should one that can still be easily speedfarmed by every class.


You can speedfarm a GR100 if you're geared/paragoned properly.

But to your first point. I did explain in my original post a way to just re-number the Torments so there are actually less difficulty settings. Torment 1-10 only. But 8 would be equivalent to current T13 difficulty, and the new 9 and 10 would be scaled up much higher for end game gearing. But still possible to speedfarm.

I didn't make my request as clear in my first post, but I would want a little bit of continued power creep as well. My suggestion there would be:
  • Buff the 6 piece set bonuses a little higher across the board.
  • Buff LoN: "as long as you don't have a 6 piece set bonus..."


Now the game is super interesting.


Seriously, you want MORE power creep? Are you nuts?
Same graph as above but without the Legendary drop chance.

https://imgur.com/dwXptnC

Again everything T13 and below is accurate as of 2.6.4
03/16/2019 12:07 PMPosted by Orrion
Seriously, you want MORE power creep? Are you nuts?


Just trolling may be? Every month there's a thread about this because someone obsessed enough asking to get hooked more and do more of the same thing without an option to cop-out or get punished even harder on a spontaneous disconnect.

03/16/2019 12:03 PMPosted by Eirhead
You can speedfarm a GR100 if you're geared/paragoned properly.


Not if we're talking about doing GR100 as split bounty. That means near trippled health. Forget about rinse and repeating it, you'll only farm one session of 5 acts in a split bounty for 2 hours. Also you may forget about speedfarm variant build diversity which we only got.
Challenge you asked? What's hard about donning a Goldwrap in standard difficulties again? And what does it serve when your damage simply falters and drags you across the difficulty, because you supposed to focus on mobility to rinse and repeat for highest farming efficiency?

This also means you have to clear GR100 solo to join up public bounties, that's a requirement to prevent leeches. How many days it took you to clear GR100 with current Sets damage values? Why you wanna slow down seasonal play to a halt?

03/16/2019 12:03 PMPosted by Eirhead
I didn't make my request as clear in my first post, but I would want a little bit of continued power creep as well.


Wanna solo GR150 in 2 minutes? Go ahead, we'll be right behind you.

03/16/2019 12:03 PMPosted by Eirhead
Now the game is super interesting.


Guaranteed next seasonal theme. I have no hope for 2.6.5, this may as well apply and I can go with the flow.
03/16/2019 12:03 PMPosted by Eirhead
I didn't make my request as clear in my first post, but I would want a little bit of continued power creep as well. My suggestion there would be:

Buff the 6 piece set bonuses a little higher across the board.
Buff LoN: "as long as you don't have a 6 piece set bonus..."


Instant downvote for suggesting more power creep.
The post name is T20 Please. That is GR95. This level would divide players far too much.

My graphs propose a T16/GR75 difficulty which all sets can run.
03/16/2019 12:19 PMPosted by Rodnetard
My graphs propose a T16/GR75 difficulty which all sets can run.


Perhaps but I still hope not.
Posted by Rodnetard
My graphs propose a T16/GR75 difficulty which all sets can run.

Perhaps but I still hope not.


May I ask why?

T6 and below is for leveling. T6-16 is for after 70 and you get your base pieces for your build. Once you have all your items and roll a stat on each and Leg Gems you would walk all over T16 like you would T13.

Meaning you have to run less regular rifts and more rewarding rifts. Leaving more time for Gem ups para and pushing also more rolls. While getting at least more of a challenge and Mats EXP GOLD etc.
GR75 level being the highest difficulty might not be bad idea, not too high for speedfarming while providing little bit more challenge.

However, one matter doesn't change. The number of difficulty levels must be reduced. 17 is wayyyyy too many.

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