Holy Point Shot and RNG

General Discussion
This post is about a specific item, but also about RNG in general. I have seen many other posts about RNG and the fact that some players get great items quickly and some players never seem to get anything good. There is an exception to this, and this is items which can roll many affixes and are essential to power, pushing builds. Case in point is the Holy Point Shot, which can roll 17 different Demon Hunter skills on it. Even with this ridiculous number, based on my conversation with MANY players - grinders like me that DO NOT post on forums but actually play the game - it is virtually impossible to get a perfectly rolled Holy Point Shot. There is no reason whatsoever to have an item roll a skill that is unused and unwanted on any item. There is only one skill used with this quiver - Impale. The fact that this items rolls 16 other skills means it is impossible to get an item with the affix needed. Either remove the Demon Hunter skills from quivers or only roll the skill on the quiver that it is intended for. This is an easy code change and would greatly increase your player-developer relationship, which is not good right now, let me tell you. I could go on about the fact that I have cubed, rolled and gambled incessantly for a good Holy Point Shot, knowing the cards are stacked against me, but it seems no one at Blizzard really cares about this. My biggest gripe about this is players waste too much time rolling / gambling and it takes away from the really want to do, which is fight monsters.
Since you say you're a grinder you should have enough gold, mats and patience to roll impale damage on a Holy Point Shot.
Short answer; RNG is RNG

Long answer; "You make use of what you found when odds are stacked against you."
Replying to the above posts: Since you are too lazy to read my entire post, let me paraphrase parts of it relating to your responses.

In regards to "JAZZ", please refer to the section of my post referencing the fact that I am not interested in spending time re-rolling items. Neither are ALL of the other players I have discussed this with. No exceptions.

In regards to "naksiloth", it is NOT RNG. I am a mathematician, and please do not go down this road. It is partly related to Blizzard's actual algorithm(s) not being true "RNG" as your definition implies, and partly due to the main concern in the post having to do with affixes on items. Please do not comment on my post if you cannot comprehend it. Thank you.
03/18/2019 10:00 AMPosted by Ashtraymaker
In regards to "naksiloth", it is NOT RNG.


Total or pseudo, it's still random and you get to spin the wheel. I have less of an interest what your profession is. I'm not too far from mathematics myself. It's clear 1/17th (5.8%) for success still brings 16/17th (94%) failure individually with each try.
As for randomization, it's there, so you can not get a perfect item and end your loothunt the moment you find that piece you want; that's all developers care about. All I know is randomization has its own utility and will force player to have a lesson in avarice at the long run or adapt to it. If you don't find what you seek at gambling, there's always the chance of getting item you want from looting.
Ashtraymaker (maybe you should stick to doing that) it's a bit funny that you bring up the subject of being lazy...

If all you're interested in is fighting monsters you can do that without so much as rerolling, gambling or upgrading any of your items. You can just select a suitable difficulty level. There are 13 torment levels and more than 100 gr levels to choose from - the monsters are all the same nomatter what difficulty. And this talk about that you're a matematician and what your friends agree on: maybe you're a poor matematician and have poor friends?
I see your holy point shot and raise you a deadmans... Way more needed mod's
and potential bad combos on a deadmans to make it usable or at least decent than a holy point.. Just saying..
At least Dead Man's Legacy always rolls with CHC. Holy Point Shot doesn't. Additionally if by some miracle your HPS happens to get most other affixes correctly, the guaranteed elemental damage will be wrong.

Holy Point Shot is among the toughest items to get rolled even decently.
Good quivers are relatively easy to get when you consider most of them always roll CHC.

Crusader shields, on the other hand, are a mess when it comes to predetermined affixes.
HPS is a joke compared to something like condemn shield. HPS doesn’t even have a skill damage range.

Delete this troll thread blizz. HPS is fine as is.
I feel that pain. I have the same issue with class-specific items rolling damage bonuses that don't match any skills used by that class.

RNG is RNG, but I think there is too much for balance.
The Holy Point Shot Quiver is only good for Impale.
Of the 5 Primary stats Possible Properties, you only get Dex & Attack Speed as a guarantee.

Required Primary Stats:
1. There's 14 Possible Properties. 13 have min max stats (Cold or Lightning Damage is required.

2. Always Rolls Dex - Guaranteed

3. Always Rolls Attack Speed (15 to 20%). Requires 18, but Actually Need 20 for Chance at Break Point.

4. There's 11 Possible Properties. 10 have min max stats - Crit Damage is required. Needs 10% to really shine.

5. Skills: There's 27 Possible Properties. 26 have min max stats Requires Impale. (WAY TOO MUCH RNG)

I almost forgot: If you're pushing you also require this item to be Ancient, so you can Augment the it.

Throw out Number 2 & 3, and you still need to get 2 out of 3 Items (# 1, 4, & 5), in-order to have a usable quiver, plus it being Ancient.

Now do the RnG math on this item and you'll quickly get the picture. RnG matter what anyone thinks, is equal for All players, most don't have an equal chance a getting a decent quiver and most players never do, which is why Every Season someone asked that they just change Number 5 to Always be Impale and it would remove 50% of the RnG.

Note: After my DH is Geared, Is end up spending All my Shards on Quivers, All my Bounties on Re-rolling Quivers, and ALL MY Material on Crafting Quivers, and I still don't have a Primal Holy Point with Either Cold or Lightning. I do however have a decent Ancient one with Lightning, but it cost me over 5000 Bounty Mats Acquired from S16, Which I'll Never Ever Do Again, due it being a complete wast of time.
I don't mind RNG when it's not overdone for the sake of padding. Offhands are particularly bad here because they can roll a metric ton of skills on top of stuff like elemental damage and other critical stats.

This isn't too different from what we used to have back in vanilla, with class specific items rolling main stats for other classes just for the heck of it. It's a glaring design flaw that fortunately got rectified later on.

I'd honestly mind this far less if the actual ranges of the skill bonuses were larger, as long as they can't roll every other skill for that class. Say this particular quiver had a larger affix range for the Impale skill, without a chance to roll every other freaking DH skill. It would still leave a decent amount of RNG alongside the other possible affixes, while actually remaining cohesive with the concept of the item's legendary affix itself.

Another example of RNG being needlessly overdone is gear to use with the UE set. Given how critical discipline rolls are for this particular set, how exactly is it alright that an item like the UE chest-piece has a chance to not even roll discipline? Same thing for Yang's Recurve and DML. It's not just a 1% crit chance difference we're talking about here, but a stat that literally makes or breaks the functionality of the set itself if it's absent.
JAZZ:

It seems you are well versed in trolling (2445) than actually DOING anything. Please take you opinions and your trolling elsewhere. Thank you.
100s of thousands of shards god alone only knows how many town mats.
never had a really good one..got a half decent one but had nothing close to that in ages.
Hardest quiver to get with great rolls.
I play a lot 4-6 hours a day i love the grind but please gimme a great holy point shot :)
sonexotic:

I really do not play DH or specifically the Impale build. This post is for friends that do and get frustrated. Obviously you do not play an Impale build either. This is no TROLL post - I rarely post, only when I see frustrations boil over in regards to easy fixes that Blizzard could make to improve D3 gaming quality of life. Please review the post CAREFULLY before making snide comments. Thank you.
The Compass Rose... that is all.
03/18/2019 11:03 AMPosted by Kirottu
At least Dead Man's Legacy always rolls with CHC. Holy Point Shot doesn't. Additionally if by some miracle your HPS happens to get most other affixes correctly, the guaranteed elemental damage will be wrong.

Holy Point Shot is among the toughest items to get rolled even decently.


No actually it does not always roll for ChC it rolls for AS but not CHC
03/18/2019 01:45 PMPosted by Ashtraymaker
JAZZ:

It seems you are well versed in trolling (2445) than actually DOING anything. Please take you opinions and your trolling elsewhere. Thank you.

03/18/2019 01:49 PMPosted by Ashtraymaker
I really do not play DH or specifically the Impale build.

03/18/2019 01:49 PMPosted by Ashtraymaker
This is no TROLL post - I rarely post, only when I see frustrations boil

03/18/2019 01:49 PMPosted by Ashtraymaker
Please review the post CAREFULLY before making snide comments.

03/18/2019 08:12 AMPosted by Ashtraymaker
grinders like me that DO NOT post on forums

All my points are valid. It's your own fault if this thread has derailed.
03/18/2019 01:25 PMPosted by Rogue77777
I almost forgot: If you're pushing you also require this item to be Ancient

No, you're wrong.
03/18/2019 01:49 PMPosted by UgLyHuMaN
100s of thousands of shards god alone only knows how many town mats.
never had a really good one..got a half decent one but had nothing close to that in ages.
Hardest quiver to get with great rolls.
I play a lot 4-6 hours a day i love the grind but please gimme a great holy point shot :)


For the past month I have been spending shards on nothing but quivers for my non-season DH with the UE build. The quiver I currently have is non-ancient.

I have salvaged 15 ancient quivers AND a Primal all because they did not have the required stats. The primal dropped with no Disc, Vitality and a socket. Major facepalm there. Insta-salvage, which is sad. Same could be said for all the others. NONE of them have been good enough or had the right rolls to be better than what I currently have equipped, and that's just a large sack of sad.

So I get the pain of RnG. But honestly its the layers and the feel of the game being against you sometimes that causes the frustration. You don't think of that when you get a godly drop (when luck favors you) with an item for a build you don't even currently use. That's sad too.

Game on.

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