What is the Risk versus Reward in D3?

General Discussion
Before endgame, there are some. Like should I spend my money on making star gems and sockets? Or should risk it all and go for a LVL 70 items with reduced level?

But endgame has no risk. No stakes other than "Should I risk 4 hours looking for the perfect rift?"

It's like "Nope the game in that configuration isn't worth playing. Neither is that, or that. Oh this is promising! Nope that's not worth playing either."

It's like the game is, "Reroll the game to see if the game turns good enough to play."

The reward is "Top of the Ladder!" or maybe 1 paragon point, or 1 extra level on a gem, or the 1 in 10,000 chance of an item upgrade.

T16 might be good because now, it's a risk of getting kicked, or disconnected, or the risk of being stuck with newbs to the point where the rift isn't worth doing and everyone leaves. Same with bounties. Whereas before, there was less risk of the other players sucking.

Hardcore has stakes, but when there are 10 spare sets in the stash and a quick level up set, the risk is greatly reduced. But few people play HC.

Is there any other risk versus reward that I missed?

http://gamestudies.org/1101/articles/williams_nesbitt_eidels_elliott
Pay for empowerment at the highest greater rift difficulty that's available to you whenever you want to level a gem.

You'll probably end up losing more than you gain doing that.
This game has pretty much no risks at all. The only risks are generally towards hardcore characters, and that's even if you want to consider dying a risk given how the game is setup. At most, you're risking accessories with good rolls, while the rest of the gear is forgettable and replaced in seconds. And even then, the accessories having 'best' rolls are nothing more than a 'nice to have' type thing.

Softcore though, nothing matters. Trash gear, join games and leech, get your 6 set in basically 10 minutes and you've beating the game. There is no feeling of reward at all with how over-tuned item drops are at this point and being forced into set piece metas has no interesting aspects to it when every single thing in this game is cookie cutter.

I wouldn't call what you pointed out risks either, just inconveniences or time wasters. Getting kicked from a game doesn't matter, just join another. Slow bounties/people leaving isn't a risk, just a waste of time etc.
04/03/2019 05:34 PMPosted by atom0s
This game has pretty much no risks at all. The only risks are generally towards hardcore characters, and that's even if you want to consider dying a risk given how the game is setup. At most, you're risking accessories with good rolls, while the rest of the gear is forgettable and replaced in seconds. And even then, the accessories having 'best' rolls are nothing more than a 'nice to have' type thing.

Softcore though, nothing matters. Trash gear, join games and leech, get your 6 set in basically 10 minutes and you've beating the game. There is no feeling of reward at all with how over-tuned item drops are at this point and being forced into set piece metas has no interesting aspects to it when every single thing in this game is cookie cutter.

I wouldn't call what you pointed out risks either, just inconveniences or time wasters. Getting kicked from a game doesn't matter, just join another. Slow bounties/people leaving isn't a risk, just a waste of time etc.


Yeah that's what I think. It's actually quiet interesting when looking at the game from a risk reward perspective. It's pretty dismal.
04/03/2019 05:30 PMPosted by Oblivion
Pay for empowerment at the highest greater rift difficulty that's available to you whenever you want to level a gem.

You'll probably end up losing more than you gain doing that.


Wow that's awesome! I can risk a fraction of the 10 billion gold I have and get.... 1 more chance at a higher level GEM!!! OMG!!! What a buzz when they pays off! So risky too! The stakes are SO HIGH!

Please notice the sarcasm.
04/03/2019 10:49 PMPosted by Steve
Wow that's awesome! I can risk a fraction of the 10 billion gold I have and get.... 1 more chance at a higher level GEM!!! OMG!!! What a buzz when they pays off! So risky too! The stakes are SO HIGH!

Please notice the sarcasm.

Meh, still far more riskier and rewarding than...

04/03/2019 05:04 PMPosted by Steve
Before endgame, there are some. Like should I spend my money on making star gems and sockets? Or should risk it all and go for a LVL 70 items with reduced level?

But to each their own.
What a stupid subject! Thankfully there is no real risk in playing Diablo, apart from maybe wasting some time. If you want real risk then there are plenty of online gambling and betting sites ready to grab your money.
One risk is to trust your own gut feeling and build designing and invest in gear you choose to and rerolls you choose to. (Instead of "cheating" by reading internet). It costs mostly time.

HC is the real deal of risk/reward.
So risk and reward is something we DO NOT WANT! Correct?
First of all there is a psycho-neurological reward by playing the game, like there is in playing any game. Then there are the specific game related rewards: getting better loot, upgrading gear, gems, seasonal and other rewards, getting paragon points, improving personal records, interacting with friends and other players and lots of other stuff.
Talking about risks, there doesn't need to be any other risk than dieing and losing your exp pool, or hardcore hero... or your selfesteem for a brief moment, or failing the GR timer or any of the other timers (like in season journey tasks), or risking not getting the result from a reforge, reroll, upgrade, crafting or whatever.
it's quite obvious.
RISK using a bot
REWARD top of the leaderboard
There are risks, but nothing is permanent enough to pose a serious consequence.
unless you play Hardcore (of course)
^^ Exactly. There is only reward, and no risk in this game in the long term. In the short term, for example, if you are using Kanai's Cube to Reforge a Legendary item, the risk of course is the time that you spent collecting the materials you need to perform the operation, while the reward may be as great as a perfectly rolled Primal version of the item that you put into the Cube.

But that is the risk of a few hours of time in exchange for the chance to gain a desirable item. And that is only in game. As a human being sitting in front of a computer playing a game, there is no risk, because the time would be spent nonetheless, while the pleasure received by playing the game is all reward.

But even that can be viewed in the context of simple economics and the Law of Diminishing Utility, which probably to paraphrase, since my memory fades, means, 'each additional unit consumed provides less utility than the unit consumed before it.' Of course we can see that the first hour of gameplay is much more enjoyable than the 10th, or the 20th. Just as the act of farming for Bounty materials for the first five Acts of Bounties may be fun and enjoyable, while the 10th round of those bounties may become a detestable chore.

And then we have hard-core.

In hard-core, the risk of simply playing the game is the loss of all time invested prior to each point of time in the game. But even that's not entirely true. I still get to keep all the equipment that's in my stash, all the gold, all the gems. So while losing the character, all its equipment, and all the time spent in acquiring that particular set of equipment is lost, still some gain was made that can be retained.

Now if hard-core really wanted to be hard-core, then on death everything on the account would be wiped out, and the player would start back from zero. But I fear if that was the case, no one would play the mode. That's simply too much risk for what may end up being no reward.
The risk is replaced by time. Either you spend 5 minutes in a regular rift possibly getting 10 legendaries. Or you spend 5 in GR 70 and are guaranteed 7 legendaries and twice the amount of exp. You could also do GR75 in 7 minutes and get 8 legendaries.

Then at some point you want to target certain items, then you can either trust your random luck in GR, or you can aim for DB's for the Cube or search out act mats for reforges doing bounties.

There's no risk vs rewards, there's only rewards vs time.
04/04/2019 02:03 PMPosted by StonePro
Now if hard-core really wanted to be hard-core, then on death everything on the account would be wiped out, and the player would start back from zero. But I fear if that was the case, no one would play the mode. That's simply too much risk for what may end up being no reward


Hardcore is HC enough. You lose gems, augments too. I know this because when my passive pops in HC I crap my pants. Same passive posp in Non HC and it provokes no emotion. I play and enjoy both modes.
IMHO, There is plenty of risk in HC.
It's more about the time you put in vs the rewards you get than the risk. There's no real risk but there's also no real reward. Once you've farmed out a full set of Ancient Legendary gear you then have to farm out a full set of Primal Ancient Legendary gear and that alone takes a life time @ 1/450 drop chance. Basically if you're starting now you'll be pulled away by a better game with a reward system that encourages play before you even find a primal you can use with your talent/spec set up.
04/03/2019 10:46 PMPosted by Steve

Yeah that's what I think. It's actually quiet interesting when looking at the game from a risk reward perspective. It's pretty dismal.


Risk isn't a word I would associate with this game at all anymore.
But in a way it's a good and bad thing from different perspectives.

For me, I liked Vanilla D3's item system more than what we have now, because at least thing getting a good piece of gear was earned. (Not including buying from the AH.) It felt accomplishing to get an upgrade and you really noticed the gradual betterment of your character. This isn't to say the drop system was perfect, because it was far from it.

Instead, the new loot system replaced the ease of buying from the AH by just insanely increasing the droprates and completely making blue/yellow gear obsolete. Full class sets were added and enforced for the metas, and nothing feels earned or accomplishing now.

I think that when they did the newer item 2.0 system, they overdid it in a few ways.

1. Things drop way too often. There is no sense of earning something when you go out into the world and just constantly get rained with legendary items from everything the game has to offer. (Mobs, dead bodies, weapon racks, etc.)

2. Things drop too statically stat wise. Nothing feels interesting with items. Everything has a set 'pool' of stats that can be rolled on the gear so when an item drops, the second you see the icon of the item you already know what it will have or potentially have. 90% of the items are total garbage as well.

3. Set items ruined most of the game. Being forced into a meta 6 piece build is absolutely the most boring thing they did to the game for me. I absolutely hate every aspect of 6 piece sets because it ruins all creativity with the game. Along with how skills are designed around items in this game, the meta is focused around those set items, making virtually every other item in the game useless junk for those slots. You'll get that 1 legendary specifically made for that meta here and there but that is not fun when its literally designed that way.

4. Along with sets ruining the game, it made blue/yellows obsolete. Back in v1, one of the things I enjoyed from the old system was how a yellow could be a huge upgrade. Even over a legendary. You also felt the increase of the items stats gradually making you actually feel like you were progressing vs. fitting the mold of a cookie cutter build. You would slowly earn your damage and ability to do higher difficulties. Now, instead you are basically a gimp piece of garbage until you get that 6 piece set bonus where you instantly gain 10,000% damage increase. It is not exciting at all, it is extremely boring.

I really wish they'd redo the item system again. Decouple items and skills from being so overly-connected to each other the way they are now, remove 6 piece sets, and unlocked legendary skills on items to some other method of earning/adding it. Make the game more rewarding and making earning your gear feel worth it. Playing for 10 minutes to either just get all 6 pieces from the world or to roll for it on Kadala in town is not fun.

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