PTR Patch Notes Updated 9 April - Stash Change

General Discussion
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Thank you for the post, so very discouraging for Non Season players after all the hype for 5 Stash Tabs for "EVERYONE" that was announced in the Patch Notes.
Why is there no way for Non Seasons players to earn these QOL Stash Tabs? It just plain sucks and so frustrating if you don't want to start this game over and over and over and over and over again, for something that should be available in all Modes of play. I get crazy bored just thinking about that and I know that I am not the only one that dosn't want to get on that hamster wheel.
04/12/2019 04:16 PMPosted by Nevalistis
As for the disparity with Console specifically, additional stash space can impact things like game loading time negatively. Console players already have a larger amount of stash space available than PC players, and we found that 140 brought load times to a really uncomfortable level. By lowering the amount of new space, we can make sure console players still get more stash, but that gameplay experience doesn’t suffer from it.


On this one point, what is being said is actually true on the consoles. In case you think that additional space won't make a difference in load times at the stash, see what happens with Witcher 3 once you start selling a ton of items to vendors in order to accumulate gold. At first everything loads fine. About a third of the way through the game, the loads start to take longer, about say, 2-3 seconds longer.

But after some major farming binges such as farming Hanse bases in the Blood and Wine expansion for items to sell, loads can take anywhere from 10-80 seconds longer. Yes, eighty seconds. On a top of the line SSD. This happens on either a XB1, PS4, XB1S/X, or PS4 Pro. That's just the initial load time. When it gets this bad, selling the item to the vendor can take 5-15 seconds per transaction.

Now, while Witcher 3 has no upper bounds on remembered items or an item quality threshold for being held in its vendor database (it sorely needs this) and can go to the moon and back for load times at the vendor, Diablo 3 does have an upper limit. But increased by too much it can add noticeable load times to the game, and since stash is frequently accessed, it adds up.

However, the server environment used for the PC version is much more robust with a far higher bandwidth per drive and a much faster array of drives than any console has. Stash load times on our end is merely RAM dependent as the data isn't stored locally. So load times isn't an issue on the PC side.

Now, I'd not have believed Nevalistis' comment about the console load times, especially on an SSD, had I not witnessed the exact same scenario creep up slowly in Witcher 3. I just got Witcher 3 on the Steam sale that's going on right now for $15 (GOTY edition, very good price if you haven't played the game yet!), so I'll see if it bogs down on the PC side as well.

As for the rest of Nevalistis' statement, it should have been glaringly obvious that gating these would not be well received, with the minimum to obtain them being 1.5 years and for brand new players, over 2.5 years. That's stupendously insane for QoL. You don't hold QoL back from players like that. Ever. But especially not when introducing themes like free RoRG and innate LoN to seasons. Players need that QoL to make those themes work more fluidly, and moreso if they are playing more than one class for which to accumulate items on.

I haven't even gotten into the communications part yet, and for the most part won't do so here other than to say that it sucks for us all that communication is virtually nonexistent, let alone untimely and misinformative. But at this stage of the game's life, gating these tabs behind even more seasons is asinine, to say the least. It punishes the very playstyle Blizzard's trying to introduce into Season 17.

We know it isn't a storage cost issue. Storage is at its lowest cost per gigabyte ever right now, even for solid state storage (outside of niche CPE like Optane SSD and Optane DDR4 [yes, Optane also has a DRAM version as well]). At best it's a slight I/O increase on the server side, which by their very design and implementation are designed for high I/O workloads.

If Blizzard really wants its players to feel appreciated for sticking around this long, they would be well advised to not gate the stash tabs. They're already starting to put other desirables behind Guardian now (not just Conqueror as the stash tabs require). Players who stick with seasons are going to do so regardless of the stash tab "benefit" (and I'm using that term loosely here). However, you're also doing a massive disservice to your longtime non-seasonal players as well, as those are the ones with the most need for the tabs now as they've had much more time to accumulate items than one might in a single season, assuming average gameplay time during said season.

The genie's out of the bottle here, Nevalistis, and you're not going to put it back so easily. This is one time when going against the players like this is very likely to backfire badly. You've got various routes to give us these tabs, ranging from paying gold in-game to tying them to the individual chapters in the season journey (here's a nifty coincidence: there are nine chapters in the season journey, and each could award a tab), to flat out monetizing them. While I'm least keen on the monetization given how quickly subscription fatigue is setting in for me, at least they'd be available now vs. being forced to wait a year and a half to get them all.

Is it really worth all the anger and mistrust you're going to receive just because you "communicated poorly" and held back basic QoL for a long period (twice as long for new players)?

Well, is it?
04/12/2019 04:55 PMPosted by regawS
If you want more stash tabs, you have to buy multiple accounts. True you can’t share loot between accounts unless you play with them together. Marketing strategy 101, make them buy more out of necessity and convenience. They have to get their sales up somehow. #hardfacepalm


Lol the gear becomes account locked the moment you roll something or after a few hours, you can bypass this by storing it into a character that isn't being played.
Bingo.

Blizz sees us as hampsters.

What can you do?
04/12/2019 04:16 PMPosted by Nevalistis

Console players already have a larger amount of stash space available than PC players, and we found that 140 brought load times to a really uncomfortable level. By lowering the amount of new space, we can make sure console players still get more stash, but that gameplay experience doesn’t suffer from it.

[/quote]

Glad you care so much about console players. PC players get the shaft again.
Obviously this must be an out of season April Fools Day joke. Just missed it by 11 days this time.
04/12/2019 04:16 PMPosted by Nevalistis
We're all working our hardest to improve the communication pipeline, and this particular cause brought to light some areas that need improving.


That's cool...I get it.

just wondering - is it a process of running things through the bosses first before you can respond to the peons? Just not sure why it takes so long to get a little love from a blue on issues that are flooding the forums.
04/12/2019 04:16 PMPosted by Nevalistis
The key point here was promptness in communication, and that was something we failed to deliver.


Correct, and this is not a rare happening, but an ongoing problem.

04/12/2019 04:16 PMPosted by Nevalistis
We're all working our hardest to improve the communication pipeline,


Same line you guys have been dropping for years and still the same results.

04/12/2019 04:16 PMPosted by Nevalistis
and this particular cause brought to light some areas that need improving.


And the last 20 cases didn't bring to light the communication is poor and needs improving? At some point words have no more meaning, only actions, and we are way beyond that point.

As of the last year or two, Blizz needs to realize their marketing, PR, and customer service departments in general are doing a terrible job. It is probably due to incompetence, under-staffing, out of touch management, or a combination of the three. You have a sizable fan base that is quickly diminishing, figure out the internal stuff first, then get back to us.
04/12/2019 05:03 PMPosted by Shogun
Glad you care so much about console players. PC players get the shaft again.

LoL From what I read on the new and improved Patch Notes the console players got the short shaft but for the PC payers they shoved it in a whole lot deeper especially if you only play Non Seasons, they went so deep they split us down the middle.
04/12/2019 04:16 PMPosted by Nevalistis
We made all five stash tabs available on the PTR largely for testing purposes; we wanted to make sure adding this amount of space wouldn’t break anything. It was intended that this additional space would be unlocked over time. We could have made that more clear from the beginning and apologize for not clarifying sooner.


I'm actually not even upset about prompt communication, I'm upset about your notes. The note: "All players" can get confused with seasons and non-seasons in which you actually meant "All platforms" because NS gets nothing so it's not all players. Additionally you should have written in 'PTR only: all 5 are available for testing purposes'.

So really the uproar is probably your fault, point blank. That or you are covering up for your higher ups bait and switch. So which is it? I know wouldn't get a straight answer for that, you'll just take the fall for it anyway. But this all points to the devs changing their mind rather than some goof in the notes. If it was intended all along to just be PTR for all the tabs then why even go through the effort of putting precise gold costs for them?

Yah they changed their minds. I'm almost 100% sure.
+100000000 TheTias

Couldn't word a reply like that if I tried and wish I could give more than just a 1.

Thanks from me.
Stash tabs are most useful for long term NS players. Seasonal tabs are not necessary for 4 months of play. Forcing NS players to play seasons that they do not want to play, with seasonal buffs that end at the end of the season, for tabs they wont be filling because they arent playing their main characters is moronic.

And buffing LON and not empowering hoarding is just dirty. Weak, I wont play your low effort seasons for tabs. Give me new content.
The playerbase is telling you that you're doing something wrong. The feedback is there, this patch isn't live yet, please fix this and just let everyone have the 5 tabs.
The problem is: Most players need more stash space now. Not at christmas 2020.
Yeah sure, your communication on the tabs being season rewards instead of being baseline like they should be was bad. But if you're gonna go that route, the fact that you named earned rewards as quality of life is the worse error on your part. Quality of life in a game like this is something everyone can take part in, regardless of how they play. Adding 5 tabs to everyone via gold/DB's/SoJ's/whatever is a quality of life increase. Adding 5 tabs to season rewards and 0 purchasable by currency does not qualify as quality of life and should not be labeled as such. A quality of life that takes 15 months for long time players or 27! months for a new player is not quality of life at that point. Its a massive labeling issue on your part as far as I can see it. You completely misrepresented what it was in the patch notes.
spash space...really? we have more serious problems for the next patch/season like a LON season with 2 classes left out and still underperforming sets and 100s of useless items
i mean i understand i would be nice to have more space but if that work eats time that could fix more important sh*t it should be obvious to first do the big stuff...
04/12/2019 05:54 PMPosted by Mupasthech
The playerbase is telling you that you're doing something wrong. The feedback is there, this patch isn't live yet, please fix this and just let everyone have the 5 tabs.


Would be the best outcome. Stashgate has become tiring.
Just one more example of how Blizz completely misreads their player base.

Behind this stashgate fiasco are the same reasons why someone thought it was a great idea to announce a phone game to a PC audience starved for content.

The same higher ups decide to gate the stash for a group of players that have their stash filled up to the maximum because of all the gameplay changes that this game is notorious for.

Complete disconnect and you still wonder why everyone is so mad?

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