PTR Patch Notes Updated 9 April - Stash Change

General Discussion
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04/14/2019 01:44 PMPosted by Meteorblade
Decisions I personally disagree with made for valid reasons I can understand. It's when they make a decision and aren't honest about the reasons behind it that infuriate the hell out of me.


Of course. I think any sane person feels that way. Nobody likes to feel lied to. This situation certainly feels like we were not just misled, but outright lied to - there is no evidence players can see of server issues due to stash tabs. None. From our perspective we have reason to be upset. They very well may have evidence, but we don't see it so it just makes Blizz look bad.

Why do you think I made the thread to begin with? I was NOT happy with the decision or how they chose to sneak it into the patch notes without even a post saying the notes changed.

You know, they could have just gone with worst case scenario to start with - give us one tab earned from Seasons (and say so in the patch notes). Then if PTR shows no issues, give us more tabs - one for gold and one for Season. Heck if it worked really well then give us all five.

Under promise and over produce works great in all cases. So does setting reasonable expectations with customers, esp on something they so badly want.
04/14/2019 02:09 PMPosted by MissCheetah
Under promise and over produce works great in all cases.


Exactly this.

They should have just released one additional stash tab for gold at the start of each season... for both NS and seasons (maybe two tabs on the first round). They can spend the next 3 months analysing server performance with the extra tabs before deciding if they ought to release another tab the next season.

It sets up no promise of what the max tabs will be and players will accept that when the devs say 'no more tabs', it's because they've put in some logical analysis into the decision.
04/14/2019 02:14 PMPosted by Mugsy
04/14/2019 02:09 PMPosted by MissCheetah
Under promise and over produce works great in all cases.


Exactly this.

They should have just released one additional stash tab for gold at the start of each season... for both NS and seasons (maybe two tabs on the first round). They can spend the next 3 months analysing server performance with the extra tabs before deciding if they ought to release another tab the next season.

It sets up no promise of what the max tabs will be and players will accept that when the devs say 'no more tabs', it's because they've put in some logical analysis into the decision.


Yes, THIS ^^^

Manage player expectations with timely and rational communications that ensure players are not set up for disappointment. You can't make everyone happy ever, but you can do better managing expectations.
04/14/2019 10:06 AMPosted by MissCheetah
04/14/2019 09:56 AMPosted by JoeUtopia
What I said is to everyone defending Blizz. They expected to be hoodwinked. I expected to believe what I was told and the when it changed, to be told the truth and not have an attempt to make it my ability to read.


What I was trying to point out is that it is reasonable to expect to be hoodwinked. Morally it is wrong and companies should not do it. We all agree there. However, it happens all the time which is why consumers question corporations, communications, and advertisements.

You are totally right - it should not happen! They are also right - it happens all the time so you kind of have to look out for yourself.

This one bugs me more than normal though because even if the patch notes were wrong, the PTR gave them for gold which, when paired with the patch notes, set the expectation that we really would get them. Even those who DID question Blizz, thought we got stash tabs for gold. (with a few very cynical exceptions).

People are bitter and cynical towards most companies because this kind of crap is normal.

Shout out to a good one though. Chewy is fantastic for getting me all my cat stuff at good prices, very fast free shipping, handwritten cards - even Bday cards for my cats, and having amazing customer service. They also do a lot of charity support for animal welfare. Oh, and they don't mislead anyone that I have found so far.


MissCheetah,

Currently, I feel we have enough space for gear between current stash and characters, but I can't use the armory because I use several of the characters as dress up for gear as you can see.

It would be nice to have the extra 5 stash spaces to be able to actually use the armory as it was intended for.

I'm not terribly disappointed per se. Mainly because Blizzard has gradually chipped away my consumer confidence in them for several years. I could easily continue to play without doing the 5 stash tabs. However, they would have made my life much easier.

Walking away from their games isn't because this particular issue broke the camel's back. It's just that the process and how they handle things is so poor and I'm just sick in tired of how they treat consumer feedback across all their lines of business.

It's a cultural thing. You can't change culture without changing leadership. It's a done deal. It's not worth bothering about.

99% of time unless the issue is extreme, Blizzard will not change their decision out of some hard headed principle. There needs to be objective data that shows they are wrong that impacts the "Game Experience".

They aren't here to necessarily make the players happy by making things "easier" or just giving things away for "gold". They are here designing the game in such a fashion that they feel creates the best experience to create happiness while playing - which I understand.

But their PR and interface with the players is horrible. How can the most supportive players in the game be essentially ignore repeatedly? We don't really have proof that they ignore us per se, but it "FEELS" like it. And that's the worst part. Giving the players a venue for feedback and interaction, and not acknowledging or finishing the appropriate feedback loop creates a feeling of uselessness.

I don't like feeling useless. And no else should either or made to feel that way. That's piss poor treatment of your fanbase. The ones that buy the cosmetics, go to blizzcon, support the gear shop, watch league, generate hype, etc.

It is ANY surprise that the MVP's all but frustrated have quit their role? I've known several of them and know of their frustrations over the years and it's pretty sad to loose those players...if anything was a testament to their horrible management of the fanbase...You are the last one.
04/14/2019 02:09 PMPosted by MissCheetah
This situation certainly feels like we were not just misled, but outright lied to

I've come close to typing precisely that a number of times over the past few days but I didn't want to risk coming a cropper of the harassing / defamatory section of the Code of Conduct if I alleged it against a blue.

I'm looking forward to what happens when Nev sees my thread about the PTR still being up days after the patch notes said it should have ended on Friday. I'm sure she'll have a good explanation for why a week isn't what they originally meant to put in the patch notes.

Heck, it's almost like we can't trust what they write.
04/14/2019 02:30 PMPosted by Meteorblade
04/14/2019 02:09 PMPosted by MissCheetah
This situation certainly feels like we were not just misled, but outright lied to

I've come close to typing precisely that a number of times over the past few days but I didn't want to risk coming a cropper of the harassing / defamatory section of the Code of Conduct if I alleged it against a blue.

I'm looking forward to what happens when Nev sees my thread about the PTR still being up days after the patch notes said it should have ended on Friday. I'm sure she'll have a good explanation for why a week isn't what they originally meant to put in the patch notes.

Heck, it's almost like we can't trust what they write.
I think it is fair to say that we can not trust. Why do you think that I used words like disgust, disbelief, disingenuous, and horse hockey. The vocabulary that is appropriate is far harsher and would run afoul of the Code of Conduct.

The sad thing about it from a personal standpoint is that my wife stopped playing due to stash constraints. After seeing the initial PTR Patch 2.6.5 notes, I even told her about the upcoming patch and the fact that she would have 5 more stash tabs. I was excited that she might play again. Now, it won't happen. This is a disgrace for Blizzard. Integrity matters.
04/14/2019 02:30 PMPosted by Meteorblade
I'm looking forward to what happens when Nev sees my thread about the PTR still being up days after the patch notes said it should have ended on Friday. I'm sure she'll have a good explanation for why a week isn't what they originally meant to put in the patch notes.


As of Friday she had no notification that the PTR times would change. That decision was not hers to make and she was not told of any modifications. The most she will be able to do is ask when she gets back to work on Monday. I am fine with it still being up to be honest. Mistakes in favor of the players don't really bug me.

04/14/2019 02:30 PMPosted by Meteorblade
I've come close to typing precisely that a number of times over the past few days but I didn't want to risk coming a cropper of the harassing / defamatory section of the Code of Conduct if I alleged it against a blue.


Just be careful how you word things. Note I said we FEEL lied to because of how this all went down. That does not mean we were, but that is, in fact, the perception of many. I did not outright accuse them of lying, certainly not Nev. She posts what info she has as best as she is told.

04/14/2019 02:27 PMPosted by Phatty
They are here designing the game in such a fashion that they feel creates the best experience to create happiness while playing - which I understand.


I think we all understand that is a reasonable goal of any game Dev team. Note I said game Dev team - who are not the suits in charge of profit.

04/14/2019 02:27 PMPosted by Phatty
But their PR and interface with the players is horrible.


It has been for a very long time across most franchises. Jeff Kaplan does pretty well for OW though. Players overall are just plain frustrated with inaccuracies, setting up players for disappointment, lack of transparency, lack of noticeable engagement and regular contact, etc.
04/14/2019 02:40 PMPosted by MissCheetah
It has been for a very long time across most franchises. Jeff Kaplan does pretty well for OW though. Players overall are just plain frustrated with inaccuracies, setting up players for disappointment, lack of transparency, lack of noticeable engagement and regular contact, etc.


I think overwatch does it the best, but does that mean it is acceptable? Under the circumstances, I think that they have more resources to help monitor and moderate the fanbase, but it isn't enough.

The forums are filled with salt.

It's the peter principle in effect.

The Peter Principle is an observation that the tendency in most organizational hierarchies, such as that of a corporation, is for every employee to rise in the hierarchy through promotion until they reach a level of respective incompetence.
04/14/2019 11:29 AMPosted by TheTias
04/14/2019 11:01 AMPosted by regawS
This is what I don’t understand. Does everyone that plays season need the same amount of stash space as non season? It’s my understanding that what you earn through seasons carries over to non season. I have a ton more loot in non season than I do seasons. Wouldn’t it make sense that we need more space in non season? So to fix your stash storage space issues and crashing.... just lesson the amount of space in seasons and give it to non season. You don’t need as many tabs of space in season as you do non season. Then you have same amount of storage and no more crashing.


If we're doing things like gathering gear for LoN or the set dungeons (for those that like them), then yes, we need that stash space. And those that run in groups acquire usable gear obscenely fast, and those stash spaces get eaten like Pac Man's dots.

Even solo I'm running out of stash space this season. I've set aside a tab for each class for the season to non-seasonal rollover so I can get that gear mailed to my NS alts to store in their inventories or wear. I've got a stash tab specifically for primals and items to store for LoN (for any class). I've got one for the legendary gems that is also used for LoN items. I've got a tab for infernal keys, gems (hardcore), and a hold for items that I swap out or am in the process of preparing to use but needs things like augments first. And I've got another tab for puzzle rings, bovine bardiches, and my Ramaladni's Gifts. And I have one tab devoted to holding unidentified items so I don't have to ID them after every single rift. I do it in batches.

So all of my tabs are taken and yes, I could really use more, especially if I start finding more usable LoN equipment. It'll get worse next season as the LoN theme will have me wanting to find that kind of gear instead of just sets, thus I'll need even more space.

Seasonal characters can max out their stash tabs quite easily, so it isn't just a non-seasonal thing.


I understand that and agree that you can fill your stash up fast... but then the season ends, and where does all that stash go to? Non season. So if there have been 16 seasons and you filled up your season stash space everytime, you obviously have to get rid of most of it.

My point being, non season would need more space just for the simple fact that all season gear carries over to non season. So if they are having performance issues do to having too many items on their servers, which I don’t believe, then why would you give equal amount of stash space to season vs non season? The majority of items are going to be non season. If that’s really a performance issue.
Blizzard: *changes the Patch notes to reflect Season gating but does not announce that they were updated*
PTR: Report stash issues here! *nobody reports any stash issues on PC despite intentionally testing maxed out stash*
Blizzard: No, really, we meant to do this all along...also our testing revealed server issues on PC with increased stash for everyone.


Kudos on these key points MissC.

Blizz changed the patch notes, threw a curve ball with the bug report and then much later said "oh yeah this was our intention - we just had a bit of a typo".

If it was the intention why not have a blue post about the change to PTR patch notes when they did it? Why not post about the change in the bug report?

They can address this as bad communication to make the communications look bad again, so yeah pitch forks for bad comms - typical Blizz. When really it boils down to deceit and then gating tabs for better MAU's, which they didn't think about until after they dropped the original patch notes.
04/12/2019 04:16 PMPosted by Nevalistis
Going to try to clear up confusion as best I can. I do wish I could have been more quick about this, but I'll get to that in a moment.

We made all five stash tabs available on the PTR largely for testing purposes; we wanted to make sure adding this amount of space wouldn’t break anything. It was intended that this additional space would be unlocked over time. We could have made that more clear from the beginning and apologize for not clarifying sooner.

As for the disparity with Console specifically, additional stash space can impact things like game loading time negatively. Console players already have a larger amount of stash space available than PC players, and we found that 140 brought load times to a really uncomfortable level. By lowering the amount of new space, we can make sure console players still get more stash, but that gameplay experience doesn’t suffer from it.

The key point here was promptness in communication, and that was something we failed to deliver. We're all working our hardest to improve the communication pipeline, and this particular cause brought to light some areas that need improving.


I have a question if you have played and beaten every seasonal journey up until season 16 and technically unlock a tab from season 7 until season 16 thus 9 unlocks and only have got 4 stash tabs would that entitle us to receive all 5 new tabs as of patch drop. The same goes if someone were to miss some of those season like I have only missed 1 season so I should get 4 more tabs and unlock the last on in season 17. Please clarify for every one this would be much more fair for people that have put in the time and need the space like myself or i will have to rip most of my season 16 gear because I have no space in non-season. People that haven't played many seasons would not have that many items that were worth keeping so they would not have the same problem. In fact every season it says i have a tab to unlock but it was capped at 4 so in theory it should be easy to implement this system.
So what am I missing ?

There are a couple (or more) of potential announcements.

1. We’re going to give you five stash tabs for all players depending on performance during the PTR. If this slows load time too much, we’ll issue them one at at time as we fix performance issues.

2. We’re going to give you five stash tabs allocated over each of the next five seasons. These stash tabs will only be available to seasonal players and will carry over to non-season.

Why is it so hard to just lay it out honestly ?
Well Blizz claims they are listening now.

If they can’t hear the over 1000 posts on this topic spread over multiple threads, I say they need to clean out the ear wax.
Exactly this:

04/14/2019 02:14 PMPosted by Mugsy
They should have just released one additional stash tab for gold at the start of each season... for both NS and seasons (maybe two tabs on the first round). They can spend the next 3 months analysing server performance with the extra tabs before deciding if they ought to release another tab the next season.


After all the negative crap the last few years and especially the last 6 months, imagine the goodwill they would have gotten if they had done just this:

"We are giving all our players 1 free stash tab starting will S17 purchasable with gold, and if there is no unforeseen load on the servers, we will continue this through S21."

Not gated by Season Journey, no pay wall, no fiery hoops to jump through, just a 'We appreciate all you fans sticking with us for so long, here is something from the goodness of our hearts you have been asking so long for'.

As much as they "hear" us, "want to improve communications" with us, they just don't seem to understand what we are asking for. My desk is covered in blood from me banging my head against the keyboard saying over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again what most everyone else is saying they want, but they simply, just, don't, get, it.

I have seen players ask for more stash tabs.
I have seen players say they don't need more stash tabs (which adding more
doesn't affect these players at all).
I have seen players asking for more tabs not gated behind seasons.
I have seen players begging to buy stash tabs they can use immediately.

If you are truly listening to us, why does gating stash tabs behind season journey seem like a great idea, especially after you say that ALL players will be getting 5 new tabs starting in S17. ActiBlizz is a multibillion dollar company. Why is this repeatedly so hard to figure out??
04/14/2019 02:09 PMPosted by MissCheetah
Under promise and over produce works great in all cases. So does setting reasonable expectations with customers, esp on something they so badly want.
Customer service has never been Blizzard's strong point, regrettably.

Did not one person who reviewed the PTR notes beforehand not see the difference between what was stated and what they are now stating was their real intent? Not one person? I don't believe it.
04/14/2019 03:59 PMPosted by Hulk
I have a question if you have played and beaten every seasonal journey up until season 16 and technically unlock a tab from season 7 until season 16 thus 9 unlocks and only have got 4 stash tabs would that entitle us to receive all 5 new tabs as of patch drop. The same goes if someone were to miss some of those season like I have only missed 1 season so I should get 4 more tabs and unlock the last on in season 17. Please clarify for every one this would be much more fair for people that have put in the time and need the space like myself or i will have to rip most of my season 16 gear because I have no space in non-season. People that haven't played many seasons would not have that many items that were worth keeping so they would not have the same problem. In fact every season it says i have a tab to unlock but it was capped at 4 so in theory it should be easy to implement this system.


If I read your block of text correctly:

You want to know if they are going to retroactively give stash tabs for those who have completed past Conqueror's beyond the initial 4 required since Season 5?

The answer is no.

This is Blizzard. They already have yanked the floor out from under our feet with the stash tabs, and you think they are going to give you them retroactively?

hahahahah You're cute.

Game on.
04/14/2019 09:12 AMPosted by MicroRNA
When this thread hits its 500 post cap, do you think Blizzard will remove that limit?


Well, to make that happen, the entire playerbase has to complete the full season journey, and all other achievements in game, including 5 that haven't been implemented. I mean, they wouldn't want you to get more space to post things without having to work for it, right?
I don't know if it is the right place I don't comment often since I started playing when the game first came out. I am really sh*tt*d off about the stash tab thing. I am a solo player who, I don't know about the rest of the solo players but it is difficult to get the extra stash tabs. I thought finally they at Blizzard realised that they are a quality of life thing and not a reward for professional players and you tubers who spend twenty four hours a day playing. I am not whingeing about not getting them for free, because if you have to do loads of stuff to get them they are not free, and I don't care if you sold them to me for a few bucks for each tab. So you finally ticked me off really good this time....the Diablo Immortal thing didn't tick me off that much, I was ticked off for the people at Blizzcon but not personally. Will I stop playing the game, no, but I will be hampered by the fact I cannot aclumilate as much gear as I have to be careful what I leave in the stash. Ggrrr.
Ur testing revealed server issues on PC,by that u mean issue on ur ptr server?there's way more server around the world,and even if u're right,u'll fix that before 2021?u can't even provide at least 1-2 more stash tab atm??anyway,my feedback ends here,keep ur stash tab,i'm sure i'll be long gone before 2021....
04/12/2019 04:16 PMPosted by Nevalistis
It was intended that this additional space would be unlocked over time.


Just for your understanding, if you think players that do not play seasons now will do - this is wrong assumption.
I play D3 since first day of release, but never ever played a single season, and, even if I do need desperately stash space, I will not play season. I will do if season not not start from scratch and need to do entire story, unlock everything... ... if would allow me directly to enter adventure mode and playing rift/grifts with everything unlocked(blacksmith, cube... ...) then maybe I will play.

The lack of stash space in this game makes me not been able to enjoy the entire game. why? because I play only 2 chars(monk and dh), I would like to play other classes, BUT where to store the items for them???

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