PTR Patch Notes Updated 9 April - Stash Change

General Discussion
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05/11/2019 06:56 PMPosted by Raistlin
Removing binding means I can use an off account to mule away my items.

It also means that you'd re-enable people being able to trade in-game items for IRL cash via third party grey market sites. I imagine people might pay well for primals if they could be freely traded which is why they prevent this.
05/11/2019 07:02 PMPosted by DiabloVern


You take away one of the core aspects of the game that way. Which is why it won't happen. Legendaries are supposed to be rare.


Rare? What game are you playing? If legendaries are supposed to be rare someone over at Blizzard screwed up royally.
As for core aspects: Trading and an economy have always been a core aspect of Diablo from D1 to Vanilla D3.
They even provided a trading screen function, which even included gold in Vanilla. I haven't used it in so long I had to check that it still works before posting this.

Blizzard gives you 400+ souls for completing a Challenge Rift that allows for gambling your first Legendary at Level 1.
Then they give you a complete set every season. Then you get 2 Legendaries per cashe on T13, and 5 to10 per T13 rift. You can find them, craft them, and gamble them with what's basically trash that falls on the ground.
Gelatinous, Miscreant, and Tormentor Gobs are a guaranteed Leg drop on Torment difficulties, and Puzzle Rings open a Vault to get more guaranteed from Greed. Finally, Legendaries rain from the sky in Whimsydale.
Rare? Dude, just... no.

Removing binding would restore the core aspect of trading, and go a long way in alleviating storage issues
05/12/2019 01:29 AMPosted by Raistlin
Removing binding would restore the core aspect of trading, and go a long way in alleviating storage issues


No....removing binding would allow a scenario where players pay real money, via unauthorised 3rd party sites, for legs they dont want to farm for in a loot farming game. The very reason the AH was abolished in the first place.
05/12/2019 12:18 AMPosted by Meteorblade
05/11/2019 06:56 PMPosted by Raistlin
Removing binding means I can use an off account to mule away my items.

It also means that you'd re-enable people being able to trade in-game items for IRL cash via third party grey market sites. I imagine people might pay well for primals if they could be freely traded which is why they prevent this.

So....?
If someone is dumb enough to pay real money for an item, let them.
Blizzard used to do that. They never cared enough in D2 or D3 to seriously stop the botting. They allowed it on ebay for years when a simple simple cease and desist letter would have removed every D2 item listing immediately.
They had their own hand in the till with their Auction House.

Account binding led to what we have now: A loot game the developers of which claim can't handle loot.
05/10/2019 07:24 PMPosted by Demonmonger
You are asking someone with limited power/say in a company worth billions to answer a question staff likely do not know the answer too.


Its her job to know dude, hence the term "community manager"
05/10/2019 05:46 PMPosted by Bastich
Clarification... someone is lying to the community.

Nev, while ya here. How come China have more stash tabs? Do they have better RAM?

Just looking for "Clarification".


Yep, they simply have better Ram in China - US cant afford chinese Ram due to Trumps chinese imports penalty taxing and now we're bust. ^^

On a more serious note, its a shame whats going on with blizz - announcements and promises to finally deliver nothing at all - i dont know a single gaming community on the entire internet that got fooled so hard and often like the D3 com got since 2012.

Drop it blizz, your reputation on D3 hit zero; better sell the franchise to some other company along with those devs who are responsible for graphics, fluent combat and win ! For you and also for the game and players who 100% granted cant receive a worse treatment than here.
This stash excuse is easily disproved.

You guys lied about essentially the same thing in WoW, and required us to use 2 factor authentication to get an additional 4 spots in our stash. 2FA is a good idea anyway, but I assume you guys did it because dealing with account hacks was eating up man-hours, a.k.a $$. You swore up and down the original code was so bad that changing the main bag's size would break the game. Anyone who understands the concept of objects in coding knows that was a flat-out lie. But, with respect to Diablo 3:

When I first load into the game and go over to my stash, I can see the stash being populated with items. It's fast, but perceptible, and if I have multiple background programs running, I can sometimes see it populating the stash, row-by-row. This means the loading of items in the stash is either a) completely dynamic or b) some portions of it are dynamic, i.e. artwork for the items. Either way, the information associated with my stash's contents is not in my RAM at the creation of the instance.

Regardless of if the artwork is stored on our computers or on your servers, and it is not populating immediately, then it is not in the RAM. I'm betting that the only thing related to stash items that is memory resident upon creation of the game instance would be something like an item ID # and the item's attributes. Even scaling this tiny amount of data to 4 players, there is no way the game should be hitting any RAM limit.

As everyone else has pointed to, this stinks of a financial decision rather than a RAM scaling issue.
The stash is server side, so a multibox would still be 4 players on the server side, same as 4 separate accounts. The lag isn't from the client, it's on server side.


What is lag let see here I get lag maybe 3% to 5% if I get any lag at all. Plus I have 2 accounts and been here from Day ONE. Now you say that you don't get lag from the client that is untrue. I do know a lot of people that get lag. Plus not from the server.

There is a lot people that play this game on a laptop, ancient computer, and a computer that meets min requirements. Lag and Disconnects most of the time come the Client or internet. I live on the east coast the server is on the west coast. I have avg 18 hops and up 30 to the server.

Blizzard will tell you anything so they don't have to give non-season people stash spaces. Let's see here if you play seasons you get them. But if we give them to non-season side we will have memory and performance problems. Hey I have bridge I can sell you.
04/26/2019 11:05 AMPosted by Nevalistis
Most objects in the games are actors: special effects, enemies, summons, followers, and items. Gems, weapons, armor, potions, pets, crafting materials, and more; all the things we love to horde. All players in a party sync on everything that every player has - in memory, all the time.


You have GOT to be kidding me with this. This is programming 101 here: Don't keep something in memory that doesn't need to be there. Keeping the stash memory resident when the stash isn't actively open MAKES NO SENSE.

When a player opens the stash request from the server db the contents. When a player closes the stash, update the server db with the new contents, then void and free up that memory for the rest of the game.

You simultaneously can have a nearly unlimited amount of stash (not that you'd want to do that) at the same time you improve game performance by opening more memory available for active play that is currently being chewed up by space for the stash.

Further, these would be simple database entries so the read from the server should be fast, causing a barely noticeable lag when opening the thing. I'll bet nearly everyone would accept a "loading" for a second or two if the exchange was faster overall game play and more stash space.

Keeping the stash memory resident when it isn't open ... sheesh, I hardly know where to being with the idiocy of that one.

Though at this point with Blizzard reporting less than stellar financial performance I doubt there's going to be the budget for you to do this ... but it definitely SHOULD be done.

I'm sure I could do it for you if you wanted (yes I'm a programmer). If there's a position for a contract programmer for tasks like this, I'm available.

edit: to fix an oops I made with the closing quote markup
05/11/2019 11:10 AMPosted by flarbear
[Update: I'm speaking specifically in regards to those doing a theoretical reverse engineering of whether the item management system can handle more stash tabs, not addressing alternate solutions like "more character slots" or "ressurect the AH system"...]

In evaluating whether the needs of the current inventory/trading management system can handle adding stash tabs, we need to consider that the current item management mechanisms may not be optimized for that. They probably evolved over time from the initial release with AH and longer-term trading to today's limited trading windows with no AH, and they probably didn't rewrite the mechanism to be specific to today's design needs, but rather applied simple patches to take a more capable mechanism and have it only provide the restricted set of behaviors they needed.

At this point it may not be feasible to rewrite the item code to target the specific needs of today and have it be scalable as well - particularly with reduced developer head count.

And it may be possible to have scaled the server farm that drives everything to match the current needs with more tabs - as it appears has been done in China - but dramatically adding new server capability in the other markets may not be possible with the current engineering head count and budgets.

Perhaps needing to promote and encourage MAU could be playing in a factor here, and maybe the technical problems don't make sense if you approach it with fresh eyes, but they could be a stumbling block to a limited team maintaining code that was modified in haste to satisfy an evolving set of item visibility capabilities...


They have to explain why does your computer have to have the three other party members stashes loaded on your computer. If it was from the AH days to make trading easier between other players you still have problems.

When they made RoS they knew it would be BoA with the two hour trading window we have right now. Not accounting for that change in the expansion means that Blizz is either lazy, stupid or incompetent. If you are heavily restricting trading in a new expansion then you better had re-optimize your system where the other three party members stashes are not loaded on your computer. That would solve the problems and allow us to one day have the same number of tabs that China can get with money without any hassles.

This is why I just don't believe what they are saying. It is just there to boost their monthly average user numbers. Regardless of whether we get just one tab or all five. Boosting those numbers will make the suits happy.

05/11/2019 11:45 AMPosted by MicroRNA
Someone tells a lie. They are questioned about it so they have to tell more lies to cover the first lie. Then these lies lead to more questions and a further cover-up and deception. At some point, most everyone knows it is a web of lies. At some point, it is no longer useful to expose the liar.

Sometimes, it is best to move on by proposing an option that allows the liar to save face and to find a solution to bypass the problem.


This is why I don't buy into it. I believe that Nev was given the messages from her superiors and by now they full well know that we are not buying the line they gave her.

05/11/2019 11:51 AMPosted by flarbear
That isn't to say that "everything Blizzard has said is 100% accurate and honest", but that before you try to "prove" them wrong, take into account that your pristine world view of their code base may not reflect reality.


Until the day that Blizz tells us why three other party members stashes have to be loaded on my computer in a way that would make sense. Even if it is talking about the older D3 vanilla then their explanation for why we have stashgate of one tab for season 17 makes absolutely no sense. Even if true it still doesn't make sense because they knew that they would restrict trading to what it is today. They could've changed things during the expansion. Many companies plan far ahead the current new patch or expansion. GGG has planned for patches 3.7 and no doubt has rough ideas for 3.8-3.10 and even 4.0. That is a lot of planning and Blizz cannot do that I find that hard to believe.

That is why I don't buy their story. They are just trying to boost their monthly average user numbers and they know it.

05/11/2019 03:29 PMPosted by Phatty
People, blizzards narrative is exactly that. Take it for face value. They probably don't have the actual resources to fix this like we would expect fixing a lawn mower.


Blizz no doubt knew long before they finished RoS that D3 would have restricted trading post RoS. So they couldn't be bothered to change the code where Blizz could in time give us more stash space or even if they had to boost their monthly average user numbers offer the full five tabs during seasons. This is why I don't buy their little spin. It makes zero sense on so many fronts as you can clearly see.

05/11/2019 04:02 PMPosted by char
Correct me if I am wrong about the situation with PCs.
The problem seems to be the timer on items,
what if there was a popup when you attempt to put any item with a timer into the inventory to confirm:
Storing this item will make it untradeable, put it into the tab Yes/No.
confirming will cancel the timer and the item can no longer be traded, there is no reason to have access other players inventory at all and the 'problem' of poor actors and other supposed reasons goes away?


This would only be true for stash to stash trading. I don't remember anyone saying that you could trade directly from your stash at any time during the life of this game. No, you would have to have the item in your inventory to trade. And the game can easily figure out whether or not it is the item that was found during that 2 hour time window.
05/11/2019 06:56 PMPosted by Raistlin
How about they just remove the stupid account binding altogether? There's no logical reason to bind Legendary Items. None.
As a matter of fact it's account binding that has perpetuated the storage space problem since it was imposed.
Removing binding means I can use an off account to mule away my items.
I get storage. they sell more accounts. Win-win.


With free trade they would have to heavily nerf the drop rates, Kadala and maybe even remove the ability to upgrade rares into legendaries. Plus you could have the return of spam friends request all over again. I don't think we want to play another trading game just to solve some stash issues.

Further we know that they are not telling us the truth in this matter. They got caught at spinning a fantasy tale that we didn't buy for one minute. Now they have to cover their behinds.

05/11/2019 07:02 PMPosted by DiabloVern
You take away one of the core aspects of the game that way. Which is why it won't happen. Legendaries are supposed to be rare.


What game have you been playing. Legendaries fall out of the sky like rain. Just jump into any decent GR level and you will see a lot of beams of light.
So, let's say they are lying, what changes?

The stash decision isn't going to change.

At the end of the day, each person needs to ask themselves, is it worth it to keep shoveling their cash into blizzard's ip or not? Is it worth playing or not?

Poo or get off the pot.

This mental jogging is academic at best and really changes nothing.

This is like religion or politics - a personal opinion and a decision.

Call this:

Lying to cover up real reason or
Incompetence if truthful

But 100%
Poor communication and delayed response.
@Phatty:

I just got off a two day megathon with my intro to PoE. I've been meaning to try it for a while now, but kept putting it off because ugh, booting into Windows and first I have to drag my 70 lb. PC case out to install the 500 GB SSD I originally had in it but took out a while back to use in my PS4 Pro (that now has a 2 TB Samsung 860 EVO in it).

But after playing it on my PS4 Pro for two days in a 12 and then a full-on 24 hour binge, it makes D3 look like utter crap. Yes, I'm annoyed at the constant micromanagement of the inventory. I'd kill for an MTX for enlarging the personal inventory space. But the combat, while somewhat slower paced than Diablo 3's, is not really far off from it. And unlike D3, there's real danger pre-endgame, so leveling feels like actual progress.

Better crafting, and their own version of a skill + support system. And for solo, I don't hae to pay a dime for it (though I will for a few stash/currency tabs). D3 has it beat on the cosmetics side of things as you can earn those in-game, but given D3 is a pay to play rather than a freemium model, that's to be expected.

But not once did D3 really give me this much of a blast when playing, even for the first time way back at launch. Now, PoE's skill tree, ugh. But so far everything else makes Diablo 3 feel so not worth it with the shenanigans Blizzard is pulling with us. And that was just from me playing on console. I know from experience with console D3 vs. PC D3 that the PC version is infinitely more enjoyable, just from a control perspective.

Folks here have seen me mention PoE as an alternative for years, but this is the first time I've actually tried it, and I must say it's matured into something far more Diablo like than Diablo 3 has. So unless Blizzard really comes up with a grand slam this year, my money's going elsewhere as I'm going to get far more bang for my buck with a company that actually listens to its players, and not merely after some major mishap.

Small note: Diablo 3 does still have the better netcode. But combat mechanics are relatively evenly matched, and PoE thus far is offering far more for my time spent than D3 has been lately. And that's coming from a guy that spent a lot of time in this season.

Edit: Spelling.
At this point, I'm just going to look at the 1 extra seasonal stash tab as a positive in that they haven't committed us to having to do 9 seasons of hoop jumping.

Hopefully, if and when it's determined that more stash tabs can be given (what ever the reason may be) I hope it can be done for in game gold and also hit the full 20 tabs we're hoping for. Either that, or we can get 4 character slots per class... the latter probably works better for the way I play.
Oh.

First thoughts about this season were: seasonal buff is pointless to me since I don't play hard enough to get Ancient items anyway. More stash tabs? Hooray! At last, what everyone has been crying out for. Some other QOL stuff, great. New season journey wings etc, cool.

Then, it turns out that the tabs are only for completing the full journey. I have never even gone past Slayer! (Not enough time, patience, skill, whatever) That sucks, and the "I don't play seasons" people are not going to be happy about that. Oh well, at least there's the Chapter IV stuff, wings and such.

Now, it turns out that the Chapter IV rewards are stuff I got already. And the wings are only for completing the full journey (which is never going to happen). Leaving me with 0 reasons to bother with Season 17.

A bit of a let-down. (But I guess that frees up my time a bit more)

That is not even considering the controversy around the stash tab "performance issues" thing.
05/12/2019 10:14 PMPosted by Futuron
Then, it turns out that the tabs are only for completing the full journey.


Unless they changed the reward structure, the stash tab is rewarded after you complete the Conqueror chapter, which is the second to the last. Only the wings and final version of the portrait are tied to Guardian (the last chapter).
05/10/2019 06:22 PMPosted by MerLock
Bring back the AH but not for trading but for storage. I can then store my items in the "AH" and retrieve them as necessary. I assume this wouldn't cause any issues because the AH worked fine back in the day with tons of items on it. It was also nice to view all the gear on my character and character stash from one easy UI.


Call it "Storage House" then.
Only problem is you can't access it from in-game. You'll need to transfer the item from "Storage House" to in-game stash first, before using it.
But could work probebly...
They are lying so that they can keep adding a stash per season and look like heroes as in "we figured it out". !@#$ing liars i don't trust them and neither should you!
05/12/2019 10:14 PMPosted by Futuron
Oh.

First thoughts about this season were: seasonal buff is pointless to me since I don't play hard enough to get Ancient items anyway. More stash tabs? Hooray! At last, what everyone has been crying out for. Some other QOL stuff, great. New season journey wings etc, cool.

Then, it turns out that the tabs are only for completing the full journey. I have never even gone past Slayer! (Not enough time, patience, skill, whatever) That sucks, and the "I don't play seasons" people are not going to be happy about that. Oh well, at least there's the Chapter IV stuff, wings and such.

Now, it turns out that the Chapter IV rewards are stuff I got already. And the wings are only for completing the full journey (which is never going to happen). Leaving me with 0 reasons to bother with Season 17.

A bit of a let-down. (But I guess that frees up my time a bit more)

That is not even considering the controversy around the stash tab "performance issues" thing.


Good.. no one will miss you..

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