PTR Patch Notes Updated 9 April - Stash Change

General Discussion
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They were downvoting everyone else heavily seeing how they were the majority back then.

One must remember that the forums are frequented by a vocal minority so one cannot draw conclusions on the overall player opinion on matters from it. According to the forum activity Diablo III only has 100 or so players, but in reality it has much more.


Look I am well aware that not everyone visits or post here on the forums. But still the majority of the voices here can be used as a sample of what others would be saying if they were here. Plus you also have places like Twitter, Reddit, etc... you know all of the other social media sites Blizz uses to connect with their players outside of the forums. Those ones need to be counted as well. All of that along with any time they do talk to us in person and actually listen is another avenue.

But still I didn't see anyone in those threads that I did read requesting stash space be tied to seasons. I have seen players back then asking for stash space that they would be willing to pay extra for.

The firs thing tied to seasons wasn't stash space it was season only legendaries that is if you have forgotten it. Stash space wasn't unlockable till that one Blizzcon when they added the extra chest then said that we can unlock the other four tabs in seasons. I am sure that if I looked hard enough I could find it. Even though I remember that the first tab was added in Season 5. I remember that because I used the monk that season to unlock it. I had a hard time doing it because I didn't have a good game plan and wasn't as skilled as I am now, plus a whole lot more that I won't go into.

They do not have to play it. After all they do not need the extra stash tabs. People did perfectly fine back in 1.0 where we had well under half the potential stash capacity we now have and items did not stack anywhere near as well.


Yes and that is because they really didn't need to keep any legendaries when the game launched. Unless the legendaries where BiS with the right rolls it was either vendored or salvaged. Also we didn't need it because a lot of people weren't really playing the game. They were playing the AH during vanilla. No need for a huge stash if all you are doing is just acquiring some items from the AH to flip so you can make enough gold to get what you want.

There was no reason to leave any notes behind since the implementation was perfectly fine for the requirements set out at the time it was made. We must remember 1.0 had a small fraction of the stash space we have now or that we want and hence there was no need to optimize to support more.


If the so called problem in Blizz's story is true happened because of how the game was originally designed. Then they know that they were gonna be changing it in RoS. They could quite easily changed it then when they knew that they would be greatly improving itemization and players would naturally want to store more items.

As I mentioned previously it is almost certainly not a client issue for the PC version. A game that need up to 7 GB of memory to run well adding an extra 1 GB for hundreds of stash pages is trivial even if you track all party member inventory. Adding an extra 1 GB to the server instance memory usage is not trivial and will reduce the number of concurrent instances per physical server as well as vastly increase network bandwidth usage as well as player load in time.


But according to the story that Nev told us it is both client and server side. That is why I don't buy that story and won't buy it because it makes no sense.

I suspect the confusion has occurred since they were mostly representing the console version for some reason, where memory is a concern. Blizzard later did mention servers as well however I suspect for the PC version it almost entirely is server related. This is the same reason they could not enlarge Diablo II stashes massively ~10 years ago, with it being less of an issue for Diablo III but still eventually becoming one.


Again they are stating it as if the PC version was made similar to the console version without all of the extras like offline mode, jump, etc...

From the perspective of Diablo III as a product as a whole it is. The console versions have client issues and the PC versions have server issues. I do agree that this was not made clear as I pointed out in my original post. I do not know why you are even arguing this with me anymore since we clearly have the same opinion on this particular subject.


It is not your job to try to clarify Blizz's story it is their job. Or more likely the CM's job unless she is not allowed to fully clarify what is going on here. If her superiors told her to give us a story that changes like the wind and is clear as mud to some people then she won't be clarifying it, which if she would it would go a long way to healing the breach between Blizz and us.

If they are so devoted to non-season. They can spend a couple of hours getting the extra stash tabs. After all it is not like they are behind a pay wall like the Necromancer ones are!


You will never truly understand what it is like because you are so flexible. You cannot see how others cannot be as flexible as you are. When you understand that then you will learn something that is valuable.
90% of my stash (which btw is mostly trash right now) is account bound. I don’t see why account bound stash not on a character couldnt be excluded from the server share, at least until it is swapped / equpied on character. Does it have to do with AH legacy code? I wonder...
When one runs up over 4,000 hours of play then spending 24 or less on extra stash tabs is trivial. If you really want to min-max play time performance then only gate for the stash tabs 2-4 weeks after seasons start since you can get power levelled very fast.


It is not the amount of time again that matters it is playing a mode that they hate. Maybe you would understand better if you hated sports type of video game and D4 said in order to unlock a bunch of QoL you must play a lot of sports video games that would be a special mode that they added to D4. Even though I know that wouldn't really happen but you should get the point. That is unless you are so flexible that you love everything in D3 and everything in every game that you have ever played. Where you are so loving of games that there isn't a genre or a game that you have hated.

The same could be true in real life concerning clothes, music, books, etc...

Because they only have 4 stash tabs extra. The originally proposed 9 extra, which is an increase of 5 stash tabs over what they currently have, would cause problems because of scaling related issues.


When the five were available for gold and Nev put up that post asking for anyone with issues to post. There wasn't a single reply to that thread. That means that no one was having the problem that they are stating. It is just a bunch of BS. I think that there is a good chance that they will offer another unlockable stash tab for the next four seasons. But they will tell us about them one by one. So the stash space can do its job of padding the monthly average user numbers thus making the suits happy.

And no they cannot just reallocate the +5 stash tabs from season awards to everyone. Since this would basically be telling their most devoted players, those who play seasons, that they do not care about them and will soon be giving away all other season rewards for nothing so there is no point to play seasons at all and they wasted their time playing.


If it is stash space it wouldn't matter much at all. I wouldn't give a rats behind about it finally being doled out.

That said I think they are reducing the number of conquests this seasons looking at the notes. If so then the reduction in conquest choice might make it slightly harder to get. Looking at the conquests this season they are very bad.


I still count five conquests on the official blog for season 17.

It is called play for over 4,000 hours and get reasonably good at playing Diablo III!

In any case here are tips to massively reduce the amount of time spent unlocking the seasonal stash.


That depends on how you spend your time. I have spent a majority of my 6200+ hours just having fun. I never even bothered to get high in the GRs. It wasn't until somewhere around the time that I earned the second stash space that I started to get serious.

Yes I am well aware that if you team the majority of the time knocking out what you can in a team along with learning how to play the most efficient way possible you will save a lot of time. The majority of players don't play video games to be the most efficient players. The do it to have fun.

I am that way myself. I have done it all solo and the fastest time is 65 hours on my DH in Season 6. I am looking to beat it this season with the starter set for monk, yes this time I will be playing the Wave of Light build as an experiment.
05/17/2019 07:27 AMPosted by Kinetic
90% of my stash (which btw is mostly trash right now) is account bound. I don’t see why account bound stash not on a character couldnt be excluded from the server share, at least until it is swapped / equpied on character. Does it have to do with AH legacy code? I wonder...


If it were an AH legacy code then there is no reason why they didn't remove it when they released RoS. It shouldn't have been that hard to do since they were spending money to do that.
They tried to give us what we want, upper management caught on and slapped them, then left them holding the bag to come up with an excuse as to why they can't do it.


Not everyone installs the PTR but yeah. Appears experts at the upper suits told them to rope players in as giving them 5 stash tabs right away won't keep us playing for months. Again, not everyone plays PTR and it could be a burdening experience for the live servers if that change to be applied but we may never know.
That was one way of players realizing how much of a developer controlled environment D3 had.
At least, we got a word out of it and we're given communication after an awkward but good-willed move. Props to our MVP for bringing this subject in, then our CM for not keeping silent.

Recently they lost 8% MAU numbers, so D3 devs (kudos to them for trying at least) thought it'd be a neat move to give players what they want. Either it was technical issues or the call out of experts, it didn't work out. Regardless of reason, stash tabs went poof. No amount of whining or crying will bring it back.
Take it this way; if this was a real technical issue, next season after that we won't see a raise in maximum stash tabs most likely but if it was an expert call, we'll get another stash tab as we should at the foreseeable future. I'm content with both options surprisingly.
all the stash tabs that are gated, could also be given away.
-THAT cannot be denied.

-players are steered to season play, with core crucial stash tabs as unfair bait and THAT is a fact also.
05/17/2019 07:49 AMPosted by ShadowAegis
When the five were available for gold and Nev put up that post asking for anyone with issues to post. There wasn't a single reply to that thread. That means that no one was having the problem that they are stating.

To play the devil's advocate for a second, I doubt that any player has tested the worst case scenario (which, apparently, would be a party of 4 players with 17 tabs each, filled to the brim with nothing but slotted rings and amulets, and everyone playing on a computer better described as a baked potato).

However, there is a good reason no player tested that: it's because this will never actually happen in real life.
You don't have to account for the worst case scenario when this scenario is incredibly unlikely, especially when the worst that can happen is a few games crashing.
I'm fairly certain that removing the tabs to avoid the mere possibility of a few crashes has caused way more discontent than those hypothetical crashes would have.
Its not surprising that they added new build Armory slots and no Tab space to store the equipment for the extra builds = WTH Blizzard !!!

They need to implement a Stash Drawer system where the items are treated like Kanai's Cube = 1 drawer to identify each item by type, open the drawer and unique instances of the items are stored, each item will have unique association links to specific builds, each unique item can also show build association to said builds (to prevent accidental deletion of needed items)

Personally, I'm all for paying gold for stash tabs to get them immediately ... Seasons are a quick challenge, however, when they introduce situations where boosts are unique and go away after the season ends, then the fun fades as fast as the season, making the Tab reward more tedious, and all builds/armory for the season useless (out of season).
05/17/2019 08:05 AMPosted by naksiloth
At least, we got a word out of it and we're given communication after an awkward but good-willed move. Props to our MVP for bringing this subject in, then our CM for not keeping silent.


Agreed but I don't like it that she has no choice but to give us the message from Blizz. Even though she is doing her job she no doubt knows that a lot of us just are not buying it as a real issue. Oh well time will tell in the future as far as how this whole thing plays out. Maybe the higher ups hope that we forget about what happened concerning the changes to the stash tabs before the start of the next season. Then they might feel that they can add another one if the issue really doesn't exist. If it does then like you said we might not see another stash tab added for a long while.

05/17/2019 08:38 AMPosted by Thorgor
To play the devil's advocate for a second, I doubt that any player has tested the worst case scenario (which, apparently, would be a party of 4 players with 17 tabs each, filled to the brim with nothing but slotted rings and amulets, and everyone playing on a computer better described as a baked potato).

However, there is a good reason no player tested that: it's because this will never actually happen in real life.
You don't have to account for the worst case scenario when this scenario is incredibly unlikely, especially when the worst that can happen is a few games crashing.
I'm fairly certain that removing the tabs to avoid the mere possibility of a few crashes has caused way more discontent than those hypothetical crashes would have.


Agreed that is if there is any truth to the story that we have been told.
05/10/2019 04:45 PMPosted by Nevalistis
That's not acceptable quality for us.


And what part of the fiasco with DI, "hearing us", stash tab bait and switch, the quick word thread with thousands of posts and no actually response other than a copy and pasted response is acceptable?
It isn't that the response is merely unlikeable, it's that the response doesn't seem to align with the truth. If we are to believe the age of the game (7 years) has anything to do with the inventory limitations, why is it that the 15 year old World of Warcraft doesn't have the same problems? Tab after tab of bank space, void storage, etc.

This isn't a board game where what's in the box is what's in the box. If there is a limitation in the way inventory is handled, it can be overcome with patching. If the game truly does bog with the addition of more stash spaces, that is an optimization problem, which, again, is solved with coding.
blue responses


I'm going to call slight BS on every thing you've said because you could actually work around this but you won't because you have Diablo 3 on life support.

You COULD rewrite the Stash Packet Code so that it doesn't REQUIRE it to be sync'd between clients especailly given that you do NOT ALLOW us to trade for the most part anymore! There is literally NO NEED for Stash Space to be sync'd full stop especially if you added a warning that putting any items into Stash would no longer be tradable.

At that point your excuse that it causes Rubberbanding etc becomes mute and void as that data would no longer be being transmitted over the network.

the other big question here is WHY is that data being transmitted all the time anyway? Stash Space should only require an update when and if the stash space changes, not every packet, so saying it's the cause of the rubberbanding stinks to high heavens and beyond.

This is more that you want us to GRIND for it.
I'm sure you have spent more than 4000 hours living.

How about if I sent you to torture for 24 hours? Trivial?

Don't think so.

It's amazing how anyone can argue that playing any amount of hours a game mode that you don't like playing is trivial.

How about I stuck you in a game of pong for 24 hours before you could play a modern game?

Playing seasons, leveling up back to 70 dealing with matt issues and suboptimal gear. Redoing conquests, tons of bounties for rrog to cube etc.

Jesus painful.

I already did it several times to understand it is not something I like.
05/18/2019 12:32 AMPosted by Rob
You COULD rewrite the Stash Packet Code so that it doesn't REQUIRE it to be sync'd between clients


That takes time and code is tangly, it's at the very core of it at this moment. However, I rather have them bring trading back with a few restrictions so they may have a legit excuse for this stash debacle than them go ahead and fiddle with the core of the game for no apparent reason.
Sadly third parties scare them and they won't move their pinky for a seven year old game; be it adding an extra system or deducting an old system for a core problem.
04/12/2019 04:16 PMPosted by Nevalistis
Going to try to clear up confusion as best I can. I do wish I could have been more quick about this, but I'll get to that in a moment.

We made all five stash tabs available on the PTR largely for testing purposes; we wanted to make sure adding this amount of space wouldn’t break anything. It was intended that this additional space would be unlocked over time. We could have made that more clear from the beginning and apologize for not clarifying sooner.

As for the disparity with Console specifically, additional stash space can impact things like game loading time negatively. Console players already have a larger amount of stash space available than PC players, and we found that 140 brought load times to a really uncomfortable level. By lowering the amount of new space, we can make sure console players still get more stash, but that gameplay experience doesn’t suffer from it.

The key point here was promptness in communication, and that was something we failed to deliver. We're all working our hardest to improve the communication pipeline, and this particular cause brought to light some areas that need improving.

I haven't noticed any loading problems even when you first implemented the stash space expansion. Sorry but its really hard to believe this is the reason why you don't allow people to just buy the things, especially considering you'd eventually get them anyways after a few seasons, and without any tangible loading impact of the sort on the PTR.

Unless you're willing to commit extra resources to mitigate this alleged loading slowdown over time, this argument is bogus, at best. We all know D3 is in maintenance mode now, so even that's hard to believe now.

I know it must suck to be stuck being the messenger of this kind of news, but seriously, whoever is making this stuff up needs to man up and come clean with the community. Blizzard's lost enough good will with the Diablo community over the years. That much should be abundantly apparent by now, especially since last Blizzcon's debacle. Whoever you are, please stop using Nevalistis as a meatshield and grow some balls to own your own mistakes, would you?
Does dropping too many items on the ground also cause poor performance for other party members? While group farming, I've had the town covered in loot before.
05/18/2019 01:51 AMPosted by naksiloth
05/18/2019 12:32 AMPosted by Rob
You COULD rewrite the Stash Packet Code so that it doesn't REQUIRE it to be sync'd between clients


That takes time and code is tangly, it's at the very core of it at this moment. However, I rather have them bring trading back with a few restrictions so they may have a legit excuse for this stash debacle than them go ahead and fiddle with the core of the game for no apparent reason.
Sadly third parties scare them and they won't move their pinky for a seven year old game; be it adding an extra system or deducting an old system for a core problem.


I don't believe for a second any such code exists. Their explanation is so nonsensical that no programmer would ever have done any such thing. It's the exact opposite of what every programmer has ever been taught or learned. You would have to be sabotaging your own program to do it and the game would have had huge crippling load times until removed.
05/18/2019 05:43 AMPosted by Blashyrkh
Whoever you are, please stop using Nevalistis as a meatshield and grow some balls to own your own mistakes, would you?


Ah, but that would require accountability by a higher up in the company. Those higher ups in Blizzard are FAR TOO GOOD to do anything like that. There wouldn't be a universe in a million years they'd even consider speaking up instead of putting the blame on someone else.
05/17/2019 07:24 AMPosted by ShadowAegis
But according to the story that Nev told us it is both client and server side. That is why I don't buy that story and won't buy it because it makes no sense.

05/17/2019 07:24 AMPosted by ShadowAegis
Again they are stating it as if the PC version was made similar to the console version without all of the extras like offline mode, jump, etc...

I think half the issue was they were trying to include both console and PC versions at the same time in the responses. With the console version it is the client that is the problem since the client can host its own server for offline play.

With the PC it is almost certainly the server. Even if it increases client memory usage, adding an extra 1 GB to a game which can already use up to 7 GB is trivial. 1 GB is enough for more stash space than anyone could ever use.
05/17/2019 07:27 AMPosted by Kinetic
90% of my stash (which btw is mostly trash right now) is account bound. I don’t see why account bound stash not on a character couldnt be excluded from the server share, at least until it is swapped / equpied on character. Does it have to do with AH legacy code? I wonder...

To prevent cheating. As soon as it is stored on the client someone with even basic computer knowledge could generate themselves any item they ever want. Full primal gear with best in slot rolls in 1 second!
05/17/2019 07:49 AMPosted by ShadowAegis
When the five were available for gold and Nev put up that post asking for anyone with issues to post. There wasn't a single reply to that thread. That means that no one was having the problem that they are stating. It is just a bunch of BS. I think that there is a good chance that they will offer another unlockable stash tab for the next four seasons. But they will tell us about them one by one. So the stash space can do its job of padding the monthly average user numbers thus making the suits happy.

I already answered this in a previous post... It is extremely unlikely anyone maxed out all 17 (10 + 5 + 2 (from necro)) stash pages with 2 actor per slot items, let alone all 4 players in a single party. It was the PTR after all.

Someone on Blizzard's internal testing team must have created this test and noticed that performance went to mud. Does not need joe public to report it since if they were to bother assembling such an extreme test they would certainly find the same results.

Also as stated earlier a possible solution Blizzard could use in the future to allow another +5 stash tabs easily is to limit stash complexity and add 5 more pages. Few people in reality should have their stash anywhere near the worst case complexity of 2 actors per slot, averaging closer to 0.5 to 1 actors per slot. As long as one limits them from getting any more complexity than currently it should be fine.
05/17/2019 07:49 AMPosted by ShadowAegis
I still count five conquests on the official blog for season 17.
Well in any case the ones issued this season are very bad.

1 hour campaign -> very hard to complete, often down to RNG
6 class set GRs -> needs 2 characters, lots of item finding.
8 set dungeons -> needs 2 characters, lots of item finding

gold chain -> needs Boon of Hoarder at high level and decent farming gear. Harder for some classes. Although technically easier now due to T14-16 giving more gold.

The only really trivial to finish one is the GR without set items because of this season's bonus.

Within 6 hours in a few weeks from now one could easily be pushing GR75s with some classes and a bit of luck, but that does not really help one finish the above. One will need all/most ancient items to finish the solo GR and one will need to build for the gold collection one. If you can do those two you have unlocked your extra stash as they are the biggest bottleneck.

The usual easy (fast to complete) conquests.
Kill all bosses. Any speed build does this trivially and can even be soloed or carry others.
Level up gems. With GR inflation this is a bit of a grind but not too much.
Cursed chest enemies. I only know of 2 classes which can solo this (Monk and DH) but you can always invite other players along and make it easy. Hardest part is finding the right chest which is a bit of a grind as it has a moderately low spawn chance.
Solo GR record. 75 is a total joke now and can easily be done in 6 hours of progression when one is power levelled and carried through rifts.
Fast T10 rift. With speed builds this is trivial now. Only issue is it is a bit RNG dependant as not all rifts are created equal.
05/17/2019 08:38 AMPosted by Thorgor
You don't have to account for the worst case scenario when this scenario is incredibly unlikely, especially when the worst that can happen is a few games crashing. I'm fairly certain that removing the tabs to avoid the mere possibility of a few crashes has caused way more discontent than those hypothetical crashes would have.

One does have to account for the worst case. This is because someone will find some way to abuse it. Be it to ruin the play of others or just to DoS Blizzard.

However as I mentioned many times. The solution is to limit complexity and add more stash tabs so people cannot run into such a wost case situation.
05/17/2019 01:37 PMPosted by Putridian
why is it that the 15 year old World of Warcraft doesn't have the same problems?

Because WoW is not free. The servers have a ton more resources available for instances than Diablo III has.
05/17/2019 01:37 PMPosted by Putridian
This isn't a board game where what's in the box is what's in the box. If there is a limitation in the way inventory is handled, it can be overcome with patching. If the game truly does bog with the addition of more stash spaces, that is an optimization problem, which, again, is solved with coding.

Ultimately this can be fixed with coding. The problem is actually coding it. That would mean having to have a programmer work on that aspect of the code for a significant period of time. That same time could be spent having them work on another Diablo project, or adding other content to Diablo III like new areas or events, etc. Diablo III no longer has a massive amount of development time being pushed behind it, with most of it being devoted to other projects.
05/18/2019 05:54 AMPosted by MerLock
Does dropping too many items on the ground also cause poor performance for other party members? While group farming, I've had the town covered in loot before.
Yes it does cause issues. A few seasons ago I have had T13 goblin rifts where using my WoL monk to kill the goblins resulted in so much loot dropping that the server (not client, that was still 60 fps except everything was frozen/not taking damage) literally froze for a good part of a minute.

This can also happen in combat if one spams too many effects. It is the reason why Blessed Hammer had its rune changed that used to allow it to spawn 2 hammers. Many other abilities were also changed for this reason.
05/18/2019 06:02 AMPosted by Zymurgeist
I don't believe for a second any such code exists. Their explanation is so nonsensical that no programmer would ever have done any such thing. It's the exact opposite of what every programmer has ever been taught or learned. You would have to be sabotaging your own program to do it and the game would have had huge crippling load times until removed.

It was not an issue when there were only a few stashes. Obviously back then if they wanted to add more they would redesign the system to support it. However the problem is that they now want to have more but do not particularly have the resources to redesign the system to support it since Diablo III is pretty much in maintenance mode at the moment.

In any case I have all the requirements to unlock stash tab 5 already except for the 2 conquests and levelling up some gems (trivial). It fact I even have all the season journey completed expect for the conquests and levelling up gems... ~11 hours playing season but about 3 were levelling up and much was sub optimal farming which one could cut out by being carried later during the season.
"It was not an issue when there were only a few stashes. "

It's irrelevant. No one would code it that way. It's like putting the steering wheel of a car in the trunk and the brake pedal on the roof. They don't need to redesign something they didn't design that way to begin with. The explanation is a lie.

It doesn't matter how trivial a task you think it is. Your humble bragging isn't going to make me want to play seasons. I didn't buy the game to serve Blizzard's purposes but not mine. It's a contract and they're not holding up their end of the transaction.

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