Looks like 2.6.5 balance is broken again.

General Discussion
Nothing but power creep. Nothing special in D3 right now. I mean NOTHING!!

Might as well make a paragon over 9000 LOL.

Nuff said
05/15/2019 11:30 AMPosted by PhoenixForce
Who cares if Vyr/Chantado is great now? It's a nice change considering every wiz and their dog was Starpact.
Also, keep in mind that this is on NS, with insane paragon and full augments.

Vyr set on its own was pretty bad still, even with the set buffs that came in S16. It's nice to see Archon making a return (even if a lot of the dmg is coming from a weapon set).

I'd much rather see other sets/classes/builds buffed to wizard level of dmg.

WW barbs and MotE sets need some love still
Trag'oul set is still not that great
LoN mages or Corpse Lance are better than Pest/Rathma
I believe monks still have under-performing sets?
Akkhan set is so low barely any skills work with it. Even new Blessed Shield buff does not do much.

All of these could use some work then maybe we'd see the leaderboards and 4-man meta changed up some more.
Not to mention the plethora of other legendary items, that if tweaked a little, could make a difference in build diversity.


Trag'oul was the best set a year or so ago. Now it needs a buff to keep up with the pack? Oh so more power creep. And it goes on and on. Obviously something isnt working.
05/16/2019 11:21 AMPosted by Damo
more power creep

Next Patch
Blz: GR 200, GEM 200, every set *10.
only 50% Players left: Holy ****. I feel stronger.
1 years later:
Blz: GR 300, GEM 300, every set *100.
25% Players: Holy ****. I feel stronger.
2 years later:
Blz: GR 400, GEM 400, every set *1000.
12.5% Players: Holy ****. I feel stronger.
.....:
100 years later:
The only one player said, is this world real?
05/16/2019 03:22 AMPosted by Karolek
I am causal player and just have cleared as wiz chantodo 118 in 10 minutes at 1200 paragon, first try, easy mode. I think it is S tier build. So strong. I do not say that it should be nerfed, but I would say that other builds should be futher buffed.

A voice of reason among the mass of angry crowd appears.
Though tbh, I think it is a small vocal minority who are stuck in a competitive World of Warcraft-Starcraft mindset that are upset.

This type of outrage is warranted in the above games, not a game that revolves around item hunting and perfecting your character...but what can one expect when WoW devs try to make World of Diablocraft.
05/16/2019 08:45 AMPosted by JustinFan
If so GR150 will be speed farm level for groups. This circle never ends.

May I suggest try altering your state of mind?
Despite the above reality of infinite paragon scaling GR (mythic+ timed dungeons) you can set goals for yourself/your character.

I treat this game similarly to how I treat D2; item hunt with the end goal of perfecting a char/build with perfect rolled items. In D3's case that is primal in every slot with best rolls.

You can go further and set GR150 goal for yourself with 150 augments on every slot if you really want to have no life. It's not bad to strive towards but do keep in mind lots of group players have already done this, so who cares if someone perfected their char before you?
05/16/2019 08:52 AMPosted by Demonmonger
D3 design was implemented to fail, this never should have been approved in my opinion. GR's are fun, but the only difference between GR 140 and GR150 is 10. You get nothing special for it, there is nothing different other than numbers....it is all pointless.

Exactly. Thank you.
I don't know how or why they went with all this. Well, I do; WoW dev team cross-working on different titles. And this is what we end up with.
05/16/2019 09:04 AMPosted by Dragonmaster
And really stop calling for buffs to all sets to the new OP level. The highest builds if its just 1 or 2 need to be brought back down if they are stronger. Its far easier to bring a few sets down

No.
Why do they need to be brought down to lower power levels?
This game is about blowing s*** up and collecting loot. At least that's what it should have been focused around initially.
05/16/2019 09:25 AMPosted by JavBoc
This post no have sense and is bad focus, propose how to improve other classes not look how I get angry because a 10,000 paragon player makes a super high Gr level...

This too.
I honestly feel like it's a bunch of WoW players who complain the most asking for nerfs.
But I've also played WoW in competitive PvP so asking for balance there is warranted.
05/16/2019 03:22 AMPosted by Karolek
I am causal player and just have cleared as wiz chantodo 118 in 10 minutes at 1200 paragon, first try, easy mode. I think it is S tier build. So strong. I do not say that it should be nerfed, but I would say that other builds should be futher buffed.

I agree.
This is the type of mindset that the Diablo franchise should have been built around.
I can only imagine players in D2 complaining about someone being decked out in runeword items and/or strong uniques.

No one really cared in the end if someone reached lvl 99 before them on the leaderboard.
They were too busy trying to collect perfect-rolled items (primals, but with fixed stats, so you always knew what you were getting).

Also, you get the same amount of loot once one passes a certain GR threshold.
05/16/2019 04:58 AMPosted by GodofMagic
No, this is the problem. This is where power creep comes from and why it continues to grow. Why should they buff 20+ sets rather than nerf one? This is why the game is in the state it is in. They need to learn to nerf the minority when it is needed and call it a day.

No.
This sounds like the reasoning of a communist or socialist would use in an argument.
I don't care if a stranger or my buddy has more paragon than me or chooses to play a stronger set.
At the end of the day it doesn't affect my fun or my loot hunt. And I'm saying this as someone who comes from a lower-class family who never had lots of money etc...

I'd much rather the sets/classes I play to get buffed to levels I can play with my friends who some, have higher paragon than me or enjoy janky mechanics like Vyr's.
I don't want to wake up one day where they find their fully augmented Vyr's set (which takes a lot of time to augment) or any other set now nerfed.
So now they're left in a state of resentment and have less of a reason to log into a dying game which has already been branded a massive failure on all kinds of levels.

Let people have fun and be powerful.
This is what the Diablo franchise has always been about.
05/16/2019 04:58 AMPosted by Ludens
The devs have this extremely strange preference for builds that require clunky, unnatural mechanics a la Vyr Chantodo, DMO, etc. I think they just want to be hip and extremely edgy and want to differentiate themselves in every way from D2 developers

Yes.
You hit the nail on the head with this and it just shows again what happens when they let WoW dev team members implement their lazy Warcraft mechanics into a Diablo game.
05/16/2019 11:21 AMPosted by Damo
Trag'oul was the best set a year or so ago. Now it needs a buff to keep up with the pack? Oh so more power creep. And it goes on and on. Obviously something isnt working.

Oh ya, for sure. No doubt in that, but that's what happens when you try to implement timed/competitive mechanics and a system into a hack'n slash game.

Look at Warcraft; they are *always* constantly balancing and hotfixing abilities, traits, sets.
The thing with Diablo is that people spend *a lot* of time on the grind and loot hunt to find specific primals on top of augmenting an item.

People don't want to wake up one day and find their entire set is now brought down because little Johnny from 2000 miles away is outraged that someone with insane paragon and/or choosing to use a strong set is going to have an easier time getting into a group.

The solution, imo, is to bring up other sets. Not nerf strong ones.

I personally think Vyr's is janky to play and requires the mindset of a crack addict tweaked out on !@#$ (the short for 'methamphetamine' is considered a curse word, btw, lol) or something...but if people enjoy that let them enjoy it.

The reason we have all this is again, because the D3 team decided to take the competitive aspects of WoW and make a Diablo version of them.
I can't really blame people though I suppose. D3 leaderboards are not like D2 which was just based on reaching are hard-capped level.
05/16/2019 03:22 AMPosted by Karolek
I am causal player and just have cleared as wiz chantodo 118 in 10 minutes at 1200 paragon, first try, easy mode. I think it is S tier build. So strong. I do not say that it should be nerfed, but I would say that other builds should be futher buffed.

On the one hand I am happy that they improved it, but at the same time it is much less interesting to play other, much weaker classes or builds when you have at your disposal such a strong and efficent build.

However, despite that, I will push with blood nova necro in s17 :) Hate meta builds.
To be fair, 12 of 13 items of your items are ancient and augmented with 50-104 ranked gems.
Don't nerf sets, instead buff other sets.
May I suggest try altering your state of mind?

Simple answer: No, it won't work.
You treat D3 in your way. I play D3 in my way.

If we only look at wiz builds, yes, it is a great buff. Chantodo have a chance to challenge bazooka. Wiz have more end-game style, and even a solo-speed farm build.

If we look at the balance in each class:

Chantodo is a good buff(though a bit op compare to other weak wiz builds),.

Look at what crusader get? Captain beat every crus's build, yes, it should be nerfed a little bit.

But, D3 is not a single class game.

While the buff goal (may be not intended) for chantodo is 140, the line for crus wd is 130-135? Tell me, is that fair? Why not buff all class to 140 at This patch? Why the strongest class first? the weakest left behind? How about buff monk wd barb first? Those weakest builds?

Is the fairness important?

Yes, look at how many people play wd right now. He is always the weakest solo class and even lose his position in group. Not everybody enjoy the game like you. They just want to play the strongest. If the build is weak compare to other class, how could they say this build is fun? Think about Frenzy thorns barb. A pretty interesting build. What's the situation now? Anyone still play it? Fun is not just about the mechanic, it also relate to the relative balance among all builds.

When player find a new build, they also want it strong, that's why they optimize it. Otherwise it is meaningless. You just do the math, there are large amount of builds can do GR 40, you could have an odin build, balabla.

I don't lie to myself:
balance is an important part to keep a build attractive.
Quick note on balance for video games in general, for those that don't know; there will always be something that's the best. Perfect balance will never be achieved, not even in games of skill like Chess, where one side must go first, which changes basically the whole game depending on going first or second. So, please get out of your mind that something, let alone something like Diablo 3, will ever be balanced the perfect way you'd like.

Second note is, who cares? Seriously. Every class can achieve (or will be able to achieve in a near future) GR 150 given enough time/paragon/gem levels/augments. All of the classes are balanced, more or less. Variations are completely normal. See first paragraph; something will always be the best, you will never get 7 equally best builds, you just won't, I'm sorry. But to my original point for this paragraph, who cares? Why does what one class or build or individual matter to your gameplay and enjoyment? By this point I'm assuming you've accepted paragraph one, btw. What you should be doing (according to me at least) is making the best of the builds you like to play and go out and enjoy the game!

I have more notes but I lost my train of thought. The point is, stop crying (no offense intended) because everything is, whether you like it or not, about as balanced as something like a video game (particularly this video game) can be at this stage of its live, make the best of it all, other player's builds/success need not detract from your enjoyment, because the truth of it all is, you can achieve the same if you put enough time/paragon/gem levels/augments in, or get the full primals and best rolls and all that. Focus on yourself you know? Because, and I haven't looked at your profile, but I'm sure there's still a lot more you can do to improve your own character and performance before complaining about some build you think is the best because some person did something this early OR WHATEVER. I hope you are getting my point here because I've really gone off the rails now anyway have a good one
05/16/2019 06:39 PMPosted by JustinFan
Simple answer: No, it won't work.
You treat D3 in your way. I play D3 in my way

Fine, that's fair.
As long as your way does not impede on my way or other's items and sets who they worked for.
If you think Vyr is too OP then don't play it. It's rather quite simple.
Leave other players alone.

I don't even like Vyr and its sketchy play style. Archon itself is cool but the set, along most wiz sets annoy me. However, I'm not going to scream and moan to Blizzard to decrease the enjoyment of those wizards.
05/16/2019 06:39 PMPosted by JustinFan
Look at what crusader get? Captain beat every crus's build, yes, it should be nerfed a little bit

No. Just no.
Also, you don't know what you're talking about it seems when it comes to crusader.

Invoker is strong...it's the top solo clear last season and in current non-season leaderboard...but now you want the runner up to be nerfed more? When it already got a big nerf from the original PTR value?

Akkhan BS is terrible.
LoN BS is good, but it's squishy, esp when AC is off CD.
LoN BS - Season 17 is very strong (like most other LoN) because of 2 free ring slots. This is an outlier though as season buffs are not carried over to non-season.

Stop asking for things to be nerfed because you feel like your Condemn build is no longer top, even though it's not that bad overall for solo.

I am going to say again, this game is not WoW or Starcraft. There is no need to freak out over something being powerful.

The only issue with balance when it comes to this game is that getting into specific groups will be asking for specific builds, which may be harder if you're not playing an S or A-tier build.
That doesn't stop you from making your own group, or asking your friends to play with your non-Vyr or non-starpact build.

This is more of a reason for Blizz to buff under-performing sets/items. Not nerf them.
The solution is to bring other people up to the same power lvl and enjoyment, not bring others down to your level because you're angry or frustrated.
05/16/2019 07:32 PMPosted by PhoenixForce
Not nerf them


Did I ever say nerf wiz? I guess you definitely misunderstand. Check my response carefully dude.
Wow, it looks like I will be a Wiz in S17 :)
<span class="truncated">...</span>

I’m sure they could obviously do better if they actually played the game or communicated with those that do.

That being said they are essentially attempting to balance astronomically heavy weights on an astronomically short balance beam. They have a shallow game with a multiplicative damage calculation with huge power creeped numbers with very little manpower.

Would hate to be them.


Exactly. It's just way too difficult to balance it properly and they don't have the time or money to do the work that should have been done years ago.


Sorry, but there is no reason to time after time they break the game and destroy the balance. It's pathetic as they tried to adjust the balance in 2.6.4, but in 2.6.5 they themselves destroyed it again! What they are doing is stupid, if they do not play the game, just research, ask the community, there is MUCH material and parameters so they can perform a good balance adjustment. And I disagree that it is difficult to balance huge numbers, what is the difference between 10 and 10000? If you work with percent, any number is workable.

The devs have done good things, I really appreciate that, but in balance, it is unbelievable who have not been able to reach a satisfactory level in so many years.

05/16/2019 06:54 PMPosted by SuperCuddles
Quick note on balance for video games in general, for those that don't know; there will always be something that's the best. Perfect balance will never be achieved, not even in games of skill like Chess, where one side must go first, which changes basically the whole game depending on going first or second. So, please get out of your mind that something, let alone something like Diablo 3, will ever be balanced the perfect way you'd like.

Second note is, who cares? Seriously. Every class can achieve (or will be able to achieve in a near future) GR 150 given enough time/paragon/gem levels/augments. All of the classes are balanced, more or less. Variations are completely normal. See first paragraph; something will always be the best, you will never get 7 equally best builds, you just won't, I'm sorry. But to my original point for this paragraph, who cares? Why does what one class or build or individual matter to your gameplay and enjoyment? By this point I'm assuming you've accepted paragraph one, btw. What you should be doing (according to me at least) is making the best of the builds you like to play and go out and enjoy the game!

I have more notes but I lost my train of thought. The point is, stop crying (no offense intended) because everything is, whether you like it or not, about as balanced as something like a video game (particularly this video game) can be at this stage of its live, make the best of it all, other player's builds/success need not detract from your enjoyment, because the truth of it all is, you can achieve the same if you put enough time/paragon/gem levels/augments in, or get the full primals and best rolls and all that. Focus on yourself you know? Because, and I haven't looked at your profile, but I'm sure there's still a lot more you can do to improve your own character and performance before complaining about some build you think is the best because some person did something this early OR WHATEVER. I hope you are getting my point here because I've really gone off the rails now anyway have a good one


"There will never be a PERFECT balance"

"Perfect" is the word, but that does not prevent there being SOME balance, it seems that some here do not understand this difference ....
closed in china a GR137 with 5900kP, barb / monk / DH can do that? Of course not ... that's a difference of about 300%.

It's stupid to say that it's "crying" when someone asks for balance

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