Hack vs Pig Sticker

Crusader
I was just curious as to why the Pig Sticker is the "weapon of choice" in the Invoker Thorns builds instead of Hack. Any insight would be appreciated.
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/d3/topic/20771557046#post-4

This completes the explanation: just substitute “Flail” with “Hack”, the criteria are the same.
Thanks for the info!!
06/01/2019 02:01 AMPosted by Christyandos
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/d3/topic/20771557046#post-4

This completes the explanation: just substitute “Flail” with “Hack”, the criteria are the same.


Nah, not quite. Sure, it does state why Pig Sticker is the best option, but it doesn't state WHY Hack is bad for Invokers.

Hack is bad for Invokers because it's merely adding 100% extra damage to 15000% damage is only 15100% damage. It's not even 1% additional damage.

Thus, Hack is for LoN builds only.
06/02/2019 08:08 AMPosted by Frogspoison
06/01/2019 02:01 AMPosted by Christyandos
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/d3/topic/20771557046#post-4

This completes the explanation: just substitute “Flail” with “Hack”, the criteria are the same.


Nah, not quite. Sure, it does state why Pig Sticker is the best option, but it doesn't state WHY Hack is bad for Invokers.

Hack is bad for Invokers because it's merely adding 100% extra damage to 15000% damage is only 15100% damage. It's not even 1% additional damage.

Thus, Hack is for LoN builds only.


"This completes the explanation" refers to jay's post, linked by GhostDragon, in which the author explains why Hack is useless. You should read carefully before downvoting...

However Hack is useless also in LoN builds: it doesn't enlarge your thorns stock, neither apply a signifcant boost on your attacks (even with the LoN full bonus). So, you're wrong also on this side.
06/02/2019 10:54 AMPosted by Christyandos
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Nah, not quite. Sure, it does state why Pig Sticker is the best option, but it doesn't state WHY Hack is bad for Invokers.

Hack is bad for Invokers because it's merely adding 100% extra damage to 15000% damage is only 15100% damage. It's not even 1% additional damage.

Thus, Hack is for LoN builds only.


"This completes the explanation" refers to jay's post, linked by GhostDragon, in which the author explains why Hack is useless. You should read carefully before downvoting...

However Hack is useless also in LoN builds: it doesn't enlarge your thorns stock, neither apply a signifcant boost on your attacks (even with the LoN full bonus). So, you're wrong also on this side.


If that was the case, then Frenzy Thorns would not be a thing. Yet it is. Sure, it's not highly competitive, but that's more due to the lack of Thorns support with Barbarian then Hack. The main issue is that for Crusader's, Invoker's just does the thorns-on-damage portion far, FAR better. Thus causing all old Crusader thorns builds to be obsolete.

Really, all that Hack needs is to be applied on ALL damage sources - This would not only make it solid for LoN Bombardment (As it would then essentially be +50% damage to Bombardment), but also open up ALL classes to potential LoN Thorns build (Such as old WD pet thorns, back when Hack applied to pet damage).

Finally, I didn't downvote your post.
06/03/2019 10:02 AMPosted by Frogspoison
Really, all that Hack needs is to be applied on ALL damage sources -


It would need to be a multiplicative value and be applied /hit as well, like it used to be before it was nerfed into the dirt because of a bug with 2pc Invoker working with LON which gave birth to a Heaven's Fury LON Hack build which was clearing gr 140+ solo back in 2016. This also was a reason for gutting the Thorns of the Invoker set and it's interactions with Iron Skin.

The actual issue here is that the dev team thew the baby out with the bathwater by nerfing a set and item because of a LON interaction. It took years to correct that mistake with regards to Invoker, and it left LON Bombard as the only viable LON thorns build which was a shame.

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