Barb Focused Feedback

Barbarian
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Hi folks.

As we all know, Barbs aren't in the queue this patch. But there is reason to believe they will be addressed down the road. To that end, I'd like to generate some discussion using the criteria Nev set out in the PTR Feedback Forum:

04/26/2019 03:11 PMPosted by Nevalistis
  • What skill would you like to see have more support? Is there one with a great fantasy/flavor you like, but doesn't have much power behind it?
  • Is there a class fantasy you feel isn't very fulfilled right now? Something you really want to be able to do with a class, but just isn't possible?


Obviously, everyone is welcome to offer feedback, but I do want to ask that we keep some basic, logical rules in mind:

    1. Please don't ask set or skill overhauls. Not gonna happen.

    2. Please don't ask for LON builds that are competitive with set-based builds. That was never the point of LON as stated by Wyatt Cheng himself.

    3. Please don't ask for things that are obviously antagonistic to current design philosophy.

    3. Please don't be afraid to offer constructive criticism. And don't be afraid to take it when it comes your way.


This is an opportunity for y'all to get creative and to generate some discussion in the hopes that some of this info will be considered for future updates. Even if you feel cynical and that this won't make a difference to Blizzard, think of it as an exercise in creative problem solving. If this goes well, I'll archive the material and organize it accordingly.

I look forward to reading and participating with you.
Oathkeeper: Primary skills deal 500-600%.
Three Hundredth Spear: Increase Weapon Throw and Ancient Spear by 500-600%.

Skular's: 600-800% increase.

And if possible:

Arreat's Law: Weapon Throw Ricochets four more axes and increase attack speed by 50%.
Arreat's Law: Ancient Spear throws two additional spears

- serves multiple builds including support Barbs in groups

Ambo's Pride: Increase the damage of Rend by 25% for each bleeding enemy

- It's always had that bleed modifier, so it's always made sense to me to be the Rend weapon

Remorseless: Each summoned Ancient increases the damage of your primary skills by 100% (no longer summons Ancients via HOTA)

- to be used in conjunction with Oathkeeper and Immortal King for a Primary Skill build that isn't Thorns related

Madawc's Sorrow: Overpower has no cooldown and has its damage increased by 800%, but instead costs 30 Fury

- to be used with Saffron Belt and maybe make Overpower viable

Stormshield: Wind Shear's radius is now doubled

- incorporate Lightning into the theme, gives Whirlwind an item to cube, gives extra damage at the expense of recovery
05/01/2019 08:47 PMPosted by Jako
Arreat's Law: Ancient Spear throws two additional spears

- serves multiple builds including support Barbs in groups


Very interesting! This would A) triple Ancient Spear's damage output, and B) increase the utility of the skill for zBarbs.

05/01/2019 08:47 PMPosted by Jako
Ambo's Pride: Increase the damage of Rend by 25% for each bleeding enemy

- It's always had that bleed modifier, so it's always made sense to me to be the Rend weapon


Good point -- I always forget that Ambo's has the native bleed roll. I don't think a 25% multiplier per Bleeding enemy would be enough, but that number could be adjusted.

05/01/2019 08:47 PMPosted by Jako
Remorseless: Each summoned Ancient increases the damage of your primary skills by 100% (no longer summons Ancients via HOTA)

- to be used in conjunction with Oathkeeper and Immortal King for a Primary Skill build that isn't Thorns related


How would this work?

05/01/2019 08:47 PMPosted by Jako
Madawc's Sorrow: Overpower has no cooldown and has its damage increased by 800%, but instead costs 30 Fury

- to be used with Saffron Belt and maybe make Overpower viable


Never really thought about it, but I really like this idea. I would, however, tweak it slightly to say that Overpower reduces its cooldown by 2 seconds per enemy hit to A) incentivize strategic use of the skill, and B) increase the damage per enemy hit to get well above an 800% total multiplier. Perhaps you could base damage off Fury as opposed to spending it? I do, however, love how you gave the skill a Fury cost. Very creative!

05/01/2019 08:47 PMPosted by Jako
Stormshield: Wind Shear's radius is now doubled

- incorporate Lightning into the theme, gives Whirlwind an item to cube, gives extra damage at the expense of recovery


This is the idea about which I'm the most critical. Thing about Windshear is that it's not good for LON, not good for pushing, and not even optimal for speed-farming. So when would this ever get used over In-geom or Furnace.

Thanks for contributing, Jako. I truly dig the creativity on display; most of this is stuff I've never considered.
I've been asking for the return of the 2h Rend/WW (Skorn) build for about 4 years now, enough is enough.

Even if they buffed rend and added a legendary power to an 2h axe, it would probably go to the cube and people would still have to play dual wield wastes anyway.

I'm tired of this, man.
05/02/2019 02:10 AMPosted by Hadd
I've been asking for the return of the 2h Rend/WW (Skorn) build for about 4 years now, enough is enough.

Even if they buffed rend and added a legendary power to an 2h axe, it would probably go to the cube and people would still have to play dual wield wastes anyway.

I'm tired of this, man.
It would depend how strong rend would be. Because if we are talking waste set rend. Yeah most likely. With ik we can run ikbb or rend weapon and most likely still be stuck with a furnace. Somehow.

Barb needs more weapon choices. And furnace needs to go like yesterday.

Furnace has became a crusader weapon these days. Everyone else just cubes it if they can or need it
Arreat's Law: Ancient Spear throws two additional spears

- serves multiple builds including support Barbs in groups

Stormshield: Wind Shear's radius is now doubled

- incorporate Lightning into the theme, gives Whirlwind an item to cube, gives extra damage at the expense of recovery


Weapon Throw as support, maybe, but only two additional axes hardly seems Legendary. Ricochet can do great AD, but then tappers off at STD.

I've been wanting a Shield for Barb's for forever. I think it would be better suited for a Primary skills or FC for the needed toughness that it lacks and increased STD also.
@Free

I should've mentioned all numbers are place holders that would need tweaking as appropriate.

The Stormshield / Wind Shear idea was more me thinking Barbariand could use a Legendary Shield for themselves. Stormshield has a Lightning theme. I think it'd be more for LoN builds that can't run Bul Kathos Blades.

I'm definitely open to reworking and tweaking any of those ideas though. I'm very amiable and fluid when it comes to this kind of stuff.
BTW:

The reason I suggest making Overpower a spender in the above suggestion is to synergize it with R6. However, if you want to use Saffron and Madawc's, it might be harder to use IK4 as well.

I try to incorporate trade offs in a lot of my suggestions because I've always found just "xxx% damage increase" to be stale and boring and not requiring me to suggest ideas. Anyone can suggest "xxx% done finished"
@Jako

Am I not deserving of a response?

:(

Maybe the Shield can serve as a buff our pets.

:)
05/02/2019 02:10 AMPosted by Hadd
I've been asking for the return of the 2h Rend/WW (Skorn) build for about 4 years now, enough is enough.

Even if they buffed rend and added a legendary power to an 2h axe, it would probably go to the cube and people would still have to play dual wield wastes anyway.

I'm tired of this, man.


Yeah, Rend is tricky to address. On the one hand, it's already part of the Wastes set, and it makes sense to address it from that perspective. On the other hand, the skill only thrives when used with two-handed weapons, and a single item might not be enough to make it viable outside the Wastes set.

What if we tried to look at it from both angles?

Start with, say, a new affix on Skorn or Madawc's (as per Jako's idea) and scale Rend's damage so its DPS remains viable. The simplest approach is what Jako offered -- Rend deals XX% increased damage per bleeding enemy in XX yards. If the multiplier is big enough, this makes it a viable replacement for Furnace for Zodiac WW.

This item could also be used in a pure IK 6 build though it would go in the Cube so that players could wear Lamentation. If, however, the weapon had a native Rend damage increase a la Blade of Tribes, it would be equipped, and such an affix would make it all the more viable for builds outside of Zodiac WW.

Thoughts?

05/02/2019 06:35 AMPosted by Jako
The Stormshield / Wind Shear idea was more me thinking Barbariand could use a Legendary Shield for themselves. Stormshield has a Lightning theme. I think it'd be more for LoN builds that can't run Bul Kathos Blades.


That's solid thinking, but since WW only has one supporting multiplier from Skull Grasp, LON WW builds will always use Dust Devils for the DPS. Outside of the Lightning Istvan's variant of Zodiac WW, Wind Shear will always be the suboptimal rune, and even that build wouldn't give up Furnace for a larger rune radius.

05/02/2019 06:47 AMPosted by Jako
The reason I suggest making Overpower a spender in the above suggestion is to synergize it with R6. However, if you want to use Saffron and Madawc's, it might be harder to use IK4 as well.


I didn't even consider R6. That would be a very interesting synergy. My only complaint is that, much like LON Bomb for Crusader, it would be an incredibly boring and passive build. Unlike, say, HOTA or SS, Overpower doesn't have much impact.

05/02/2019 06:47 AMPosted by Jako
I try to incorporate trade offs in a lot of my suggestions because I've always found just "xxx% damage increase" to be stale and boring and not requiring me to suggest ideas. Anyone can suggest "xxx% done finished"


Fully agree. Slapping multipliers on things is a quick and dirty fix, but it's rarely interesting. Conditional buffs--specifically those that promote cross-skill synergy--are far more interesting.
I paste my ideas here. Just in case.

Barb Primary Skill, either IK or LoN(I prefer LoN)

Weapon Throw + Boulder Toss:
New Legendary Power(Head or 300th): Each time weapon throw hit enemy, you gain a stack of power increasing BT dmg by 50%, max 10 stack, use BT will consume all stacks
Frenzy(Thorn):
New Leg Power Glove: You frenzy dmg and thorn dmg is increased by 10% each time you hit an enemy, this buff has no limit (Nec and Crus already has such kind of mechanic), but this buff last only for 5s.
Saffron Wrap: Each time Overpower hit enemy, you primary skill gain 50%* number of mobs more dmg buff, . Max 20 mobs.
Bash-Cleave:
Just buff the numbers.

Some changes to underpower/ Old-School Classical Barb Build

Rend+Revenge (Jade Harvest Playstyle Yes! Jade barb):
Skorn: Rend deal +X% dmg, the bleeding time was increased by Y%.
Lementation: Revenge make the rend dmg deal instantly. Rend Stack twice.
Avalanche:
Lut Socks: Move original power to EQ 4 set bonus.
Lut Socks(New) Avalanche deal 50% more dmg for each enemy it hits(in 1s). (Like Furious charge)
Dread Iron: Group Stomp Has no cds, but consume 100 fury and cause avalanche.
@Free

The easiest way to make 2h Rend viable is exactly as you said: a roll in the weapon such as EQ% damage is for Blade of Tribes. This, or add legendary powers to two different 2h weapons.

Edit: that said, I should add that the main issue with a 2h wastes Rend would be fury regeneration
@JustinFan

"Rend+Revenge (Jade Harvest Playstyle Yes! Jade barb):
Skorn: Rend deal +X% dmg, the bleeding time was increased by Y%.
Lementation: Revenge make the rend dmg deal instantly. Rend Stack twice."

That's more or less what I've been suggesting over the years. Soon as Wastes set was live I started giving feedback to Blizzard that they should make it a 2 way set (much like Crusader's Roland, where you go shield bash or sweep).

Barbs should be able to play different styles. A fast, dual wield one (whirlwind) or a 2h heavy hitter (Rend), in which Rend would build up to large explosions of blood and gore (my eyes are shining while I type this).

I think Overpower would be a nice "trigger" to those explosions too
Dam, it's funny how long it's been since I stopped playing this game and it still seems like it hasn't changed a bit. Even the conversations and the high hopes are still similar.

D4 is the only real hope. D4 2020?...Blizzard stock price needs some juice and I'm betting they'll announce D4 this year at Blizzcon with a release date in 2020.

PotatoShabooya
I'm less optimistic D4 gets announced this year. If it does though, it'll be for a 2021 release.

I'm more inclined to believe we get D2HD or whatever it's called this BlizzCon. Then D4 will headline 2020 BlizzCon for a May 2022 release date, 10 years after D3.

Work on your theory crafting you silly potato.
D4 next year? Doubt it. I hope I'm wrong!
05/02/2019 02:50 PMPosted by Hadd
Overpower would be a nice "trigger" to those explosions too

Yes. In that case, I'd like to swap OP and Revenge.

As rend can not crit hit, WW is first choice.

They can add 6 piece Waste bonus: rend duration increased by (Your current Phone#) seconds. Then this jade barb gonna work.

If you don't have a phone...Blizdad will say, sorry, no buff...
05/02/2019 03:47 PMPosted by KingBenjamin
Blizzcon with a release date in 2020.


Correction: with Immortal release date in 2020. And D4 released date "SOON^TM"

If you said become true, this year, "D4" will have to face some very strong competitors in RPG group.

e.g. Borderlands 3. blablabla.

Anyway, D4 is the last hope for Blizz. If they failed me...I guess I will abandon the entire company.

I hope D4 has something new. I really hope their art style back to D2-like, their system has some very deep and interesting stuff (I mean mathematically deep).
by the time they will do something with barbarian ill be deep playing wow classic. therefore i couldnot care less. after five years of crap they promise to take action.

>> middle finger <<

seriously bunch of trolls

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