Hydra support

Wizard
Can we get an item that summons Hydras of all the elements?

I think this is the coolest skill in the wizard arsenal and I'd love to see it in all it's glory for some sort of Tal'Rasha build.

For example:

Serpent's Sparker - You may have up to 5 hydras active at a time, but each is summoned with a random rune.
You should leave feedback as a comment in this PTR thread as that's where they are looking for feedback at the moment:

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/d3/topic/20771496951#post-13
04/26/2019 03:11 PMPosted by Nevalistis
So, it's unlikely at this stage we're going to make any additional new changes between PTR and Live. We need time to tie down, thoroughly test, and fire off our release client build to make sure everything's gravy before launch.

However, I really love this topic because it gives insight as to what skills you guys feel need more love. I can't promise exact changes in the future, but I'd really like to see conversation in here progress and evolve.

  • What skill would you like to see have more support? Is there one with a great fantasy/flavor you like, but doesn't have much power behind it?
  • Is there a class fantasy you feel isn't very fulfilled right now? Something you really want to be able to do with a class, but just isn't possible?


Thanks for being open with your opinions and thoughts on this. <3 Just remember to keep it constructive and on-topic. I'm not afraid to enforce either of those things. ;)
05/01/2019 10:49 AMPosted by Wyrmheart


Serpent's Sparker - You may have up to 5 hydras active at a time, but each is summoned with a random rune.


Significant issue with that power. For awhile, on some previous PTR, Hydra scaled with attack speed and it was melting graphic cards. 5 Hydras will overload the game.

The other issue is how frustrating that would feel to get 5x fire hydras when you need Lightning, and how technically difficult such a rune work be to program.

We should have *2* extra, and another Hydra-centric legendary to complement it.
05/01/2019 10:49 AMPosted by Wyrmheart
Serpent's Sparker - You may have up to 5 hydras active at a time, but each is summoned with a random rune.


this is dumb AF - it would still just be another useless auto salvage legendary
A Hydra shoulder that lets Hydra cast spenders like Marauder4 does with Sentries might be helpful.
@Massaker - Calling an idea dumb doesn't achieve anything. Care to elaborate on how and why you don't like it? What do you prefer?

If we could get as many as 5 hydras on the field, i'd prefer that we be able to choose how many of each rune we want. Being able to focus on two elements for a multielement setup would be kind of nice. Another balance pass on the runes could make it better also.
05/01/2019 01:30 PMPosted by Venaliter
Hydra scaled with attack speed

Pretty sure it still works this way, Hydra attack rate scales with attack speed. There are specific breakpoints for the different runes of Hydra.
05/01/2019 01:30 PMPosted by Venaliter
another Hydra-centric legendary to complement it

Possibly. I'd be excited for the effect, but part of me would just want this new effect on Serpent Sparker.
05/01/2019 03:38 PMPosted by cknopp
A Hydra shoulder that lets Hydra cast spenders like Marauder4 does with Sentries might be helpful.

Sounds really cool, I'd love casting with Twister, though Meteor and Frozen orb would be the obvious choices at current.. but really difficult to balance. I suppose if the secondary skill casts couldn't proc AD, then it might be a slight bit easier, but given you would have to stutter cast with deathwish, I think that playstyle would not be as fun as it sounds initially.

As Venaliter hints, this would definitely cause a lot of calculations, likely lag as well, even without AD.

-----

Of note: Etched Sigil automatically casts Hydra. These Hydra Spawns don't proc AD, but the manually spawned ones do. If any Hydra build comes out I think this would have to be changed, as we most definitely would prefer the AD, and having to track ES for auto spawns (and thereafter recast hydra possibly 4+ times) would be extremely annoying.
05/01/2019 03:58 PMPosted by Cratic
Another option would be to allow Etched sigil to create hydras that are in addition to any manually spawned hydras (a separate pool) rather than just spawn within the same pool of hydra count.

EDIT (5/4/2019): adding Venaliter's reply from the suggestions thread in general and my response, because allowing Etched sigil to automatically spawn Hydra just doesn't make sense for the playstyle, considering the potential issues with excess calculations and lag.
05/03/2019 10:59 AMPosted by Cratic
05/01/2019 09:45 PMPosted by Venaliter
I don't like this either. Even if they allow us 10 hydras, you're still going to run into a UI and graphical/server overload. This is the one repetitive problem with multiple hydras. 3 should be fine, but that's probably as much as we can allow. Plus, you know, how much set-up time it's going to take to spawn 10 hydras. We might be an effective RG killer with such a build, however.

Good point, keeping the additional Hydras from Etched Sigil is just downright detrimental, from allowing more calculations and stress on the server, to disrupting player playstyle.

It would be much simpler and better if Etched sigil didn't spawn Hydra at all.

Arcane Dynamo is also very beneficial for any Hydra build, and the playstyle of Arcane Dynamo + Deathwish is busy enough, considering the alternating of Signature casts and Channeling to enable the Deathwish multiplier.
05/01/2019 01:30 PMPosted by Venaliter
Hydra scaled with attack speed

Pretty sure it still works this way, Hydra attack rate scales with attack speed. There are specific breakpoints for the different runes of Hydra.
05/01/2019 01:30 PMPosted by Venaliter
another Hydra-centric legendary to complement it

Possibly. I'd be excited for the effect, but part of me would just want this new effect on Serpent Sparker.


Hydra does indeed scale with attack speed. The issue was with Mammoth Hydra specifically. As I recall, it literally melted graphic cards. It was subsequently nerfed, but 5 mammoth hydras would place tremendous strain on the servers and hardware.

05/01/2019 03:38 PMPosted by cknopp
A Hydra shoulder that lets Hydra cast spenders like Marauder4 does with Sentries might be helpful.
I don't think they've give us a legendary that was so close to Maraurder's set. If this give us one, it would likely be "Hydras do X damage to nearby enemies" or " increase all damage by 100% for every Hydra you active" or something along those lines.
05/01/2019 04:08 PMPosted by Venaliter
05/01/2019 03:38 PMPosted by cknopp
A Hydra shoulder that lets Hydra cast spenders like Marauder4 does with Sentries might be helpful.
I don't think they've give us a legendary that was so close to Maraurder's set. If this give us one, it would likely be "Hydras do X damage to nearby enemies" or " increase all damage by 100% for every Hydra you active" or something along those lines.


So you're saying that they won't give the Marauders 4 bonus, but they should give the Marauders 6 bonus?
05/01/2019 04:08 PMPosted by Venaliter
05/01/2019 03:38 PMPosted by cknopp
A Hydra shoulder that lets Hydra cast spenders like Marauder4 does with Sentries might be helpful.
I don't think they've give us a legendary that was so close to Maraurder's set. If this give us one, it would likely be "Hydras do X damage to nearby enemies" or " increase all damage by 100% for every Hydra you active" or something along those lines.


So you're saying that they won't give the current Marauders 4 bonus, but they should give the old Marauders 4 bonus?
05/01/2019 05:05 PMPosted by cknopp
<span class="truncated">...</span> I don't think they've give us a legendary that was so close to Maraurder's set. If this give us one, it would likely be "Hydras do X damage to nearby enemies" or " increase all damage by 100% for every Hydra you active" or something along those lines.


So you're saying that they won't give the current Marauders 4 bonus, but they should give the old Marauders 4 bonus?


Yeah, I'm saying exactly that. They would have no problem giving a legendary a generic bonus, but they might indeed have a problem with giving us a current set bonus. This is also part of the reason Mortick's was never released; it was too powerful as a Legendary. Reaching back, they want classes to feel unique. That was part of the core design of Diablo 3. But you never know. It's Blizzard.
An option is adding hydra to archon.
My idea for hydra a while back:
11/10/2017 07:09 AMPosted by Oblivion
I'd say give Hydra a new item while buffing the other two pieces.

Serpent Sparker: An extra Hydra can now be summoned, Hydras deal xxx% more damage and attack xx% faster.

The Magistrate: Hydras periodically release a nova (frost nova for ice)or explosion (explosive blast for the other elements) and deal xxx% more damage. Enemies hit by nova or explosion take xx% more damage from caster and hydras.

New item (prob shoulders): Hydras gain the mammoth ruin, breath attack width is increased by 5 yards and enemies hit by hydra are slowed by xx%.

Something along those lines anyway.
I think there is definitely something worthwhile with Hydra or Blizzard being given a legendary effect on a shoulder piece.

The Sparker getting +2 instead of +1 Hydra seems obvious, and I like a Magistrate change to have Hydra cast Explosive Blast of the same element. Especially if Woh and OID effects are included.
Anyone here still remembering "Poison Hydra"?

Skin of the Vipermagi: [Legendary Chest Armor]
Hydra now summons a Poison Hydra and any modifier applicable to Arcane, Cold, Fire or Lightning damage will also increase your Poison damage dealt. Poisoned enemies take XXX% increased damage from your Arcane Power spenders and signature skills [Wizard only]

Could be funny to get green Hydras back. All the art and stuff should still be in...

But apart from that, Hydra items should really get some love. The current state is sad for such a nice skill. How about letting Frost Hydras channel Ray of Frost at nearby enemies (three beams) and detonating EB/Obliterate or FN/Bone Chill on the target?
Wizards are nothing for pants.

Perhaps we should get Hydra Skin Leggings that will boost Hydra skill by X% for each Hydra active. Combine With the Serpent wand. Should be able to roll elemental DMG as a primary.

Could be used with sets that have an extra spot, or RoRG.
Would be super sweet for LoN builds.
Would take some work but might be cool to revamp Firebirds to hydra/summoner set
05/01/2019 03:41 PMPosted by Cratic
@Massaker - Calling an idea dumb doesn't achieve anything.

Sure it does. If enough people call an idea bad it has a chance to effect an outcome.
Plus I was lazy and didn't feel like writing a book to basically say "this is a horrible idea"
05/01/2019 03:41 PMPosted by Cratic
Care to elaborate on how and why you don't like it?

it would still just be another useless auto salvage legendary
- Why? Because it would continue to be utterly completely lacking in dps compared to popular wiz builds.
- How? As a crude analogy meteor right now is doing 1000 damage and hydra is doing 10 damage. adding 5 hydras is still only 50 dmg vs 1000
- So... If an item is gonna get buffed. At least have it have a meaningfully competitive buff that would make people want to use it.
- Also should mention 99% of all builds are based around buffing a certain element... having a random hydra elemental type pop up makes it essentially impossible to create a coherent build around such a random property .
05/01/2019 03:41 PMPosted by Cratic
What do you prefer?

Here are a few off the top of my head.
- Hydra dmg increase by XXX% (straight damage buff)

- you may have XXX amount of hydra active + another item gets a dmg hydra dmg buff (same as now with a different item buffing hydra)

- Increase hydra dmg by XXX% every second until re-casted, Hydras now last forever or until re-casted (think boneringer but for hydra)

- each enemy killed while hydra is active increase hydra dmg by XXX% (trying to kill a whole lots of stuff in a short time after casting hydra)

- gain hydra stacks for each enemy killed. Casting hydra uses current hydra stacks increasing hydra dmg by XXX% per stack. (think clearing a bunch of trash to gain stacks then trying to finish off the elite with hydra)
Massaker, Hope you're having a good start to your weekend. Thank you for elaborating!
Sure it does. If enough people call an idea bad it has a chance to effect an outcome.

Just calling an idea or interaction bad might result in an outcome or change you don't want or think is worse than the original.

I think voicing our own ideas and preferences on top any callout helps direct our wishes and put perspective to the change.
Plus I was lazy and didn't feel like writing a book to basically say "this is a horrible idea"

Doesn't have to be a book, but something as simple as: "I don't agree. I don't like the random aspect, and would prefer to have an additional hydra multiplier or a related mechanic that increases hydra damage." would have sufficed, and added more.
- Also should mention 99% of all builds are based around buffing a certain element... having a random hydra elemental type pop up makes it essentially impossible to create a coherent build around such a random property .

I took the idea assuming we'd at least have a flat multiplier available with it, so that whatever damage the hydra deals would be adequate for the playstyle. As to the wasted elemental%, yes, that'd be the big difficulty with random runes.

I think allowing us to choose the rune types and number of hydras with each out on the field, and allowing for multielement perhaps via another change could be fun though.
05/03/2019 12:54 AMPosted by Massaker
- Increase hydra dmg by XXX% every second until re-casted, Hydras now last forever or until re-casted (think boneringer but for hydra)

- each enemy killed while hydra is active increase hydra dmg by XXX% (trying to kill a whole lots of stuff in a short time after casting hydra)

I like these ideas!

I quite enjoyed RGK Hydra. This would also allow Hydra builds to potentially run without Stricken (huge plus). However, a bone ringer style mechanic would tend to restrict many RGK builds to using Hydra as compared to other skills. This could be seen as a detriment.

The second one is also good. I like the dynamic stack gain that Vyr has, but stack variance can be overly wild at times. Perhaps a mechanic similar to the Barbarian's Rampage could fit well for Hydra. Smaller range that caps out, but still provides a somewhat scaleable bonus.
05/03/2019 12:54 AMPosted by Massaker
- gain hydra stacks for each enemy killed. Casting hydra uses current hydra stacks increasing hydra dmg by XXX% per stack. (think clearing a bunch of trash to gain stacks then trying to finish off the elite with hydra)

I think this one is redundant with Arcane Dynamo to some degree.
05/02/2019 09:26 AMPosted by Lexa
Anyone here still remembering "Poison Hydra"?


Yes. I remember *using* poison hydra. I might be the oldest wizard still playing this game ;-) I was a Wizard since the open PTR before the official release. I should have an achievement kicking around..;-)

I think allowing us to choose the rune types and number of hydras with each out on the field, and allowing for multielement perhaps via another change could be fun though.


Seems prohibitively difficult to code, unless you simply summon hydras that deal damage equal to your highest elemental % damage, a la Vyrs. To this day, there are STILL questions on how Vyr's works, however.

My vote are Hydra pants, and Blizzard shoulders. (Since Blizzard is exclusive with a channeling build, and therefore Mantle of Channeling.)

It would be nice to have legendary Wizard pants. I LOATHE Depth diggers and refuse to pick them up even to salvage them just on general principles. I hate signature skill "builds."

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