WHY???

General Discussion
why only wizzards and necromancers can have good overtuned items? why other classes like crusader or barbarian cant have good overtuned items also? is blizzard in love with intelligence character? why they want we only use main broken damage pushers with intelligence stats? why strength and dexterity classe seems intended to be the wingmans and relegated to be Zupports or RgK only? why the crusader cant be dps or support in a party 4 meta and only a solo pusher? why do blizzard hate the barbarian? why only the mague is the only class to clear a complete rift 150?
While options would be nice, the cold fact is that there will always be specific meta. For specific roles one will always be the best and preferred option. That's Bazooka Wizard is the trash clearer, necro is the RGK, etc.

META = Most Effective Tactics Available

When pushing to the top, there will always be only certain builds in the meta. If some build becomes more powerful than an existing one, that build will be one used in the meta and no other. It'll become a replacement, not an option.
05/15/2019 02:22 AMPosted by Kirottu
While options would be nice, the cold fact is that there will always be specific meta. For specific roles one will always be the best and preferred option. That's Bazooka Wizard is the trash clearer, necro is the RGK, etc.

META = Most Effective Tactics Available

When pushing to the top, there will always be only certain builds in the meta. If some build becomes more powerful than an existing one, that build will be one used in the meta and no other. It'll become a replacement, not an option.

i know pretty well what "the META" is, im just pointing why the meta only involves the same characters with the same roles? why wizzards cant have chantodo wich is pretty overtuned but they nerfed Blessed shield because is overtuned? why only the barb and monk are the support?, why only wizzard is the trash clearer? it has no sense because its only depends from the numbers that they put, they could change it with a snap of fingers like thanos and make other classes optimal to be the meta too, not only wizzards, that's why all my "why" question are rhetorical, the question is simple and it has no sense, the actual "META" do not have any sense and the same mandatory "meta" to progress kills any fun in diablo3
In order to have different classes to be able to serve in different roles in the meta would require insanely finetuned balancing. It is actually far more difficult than people think. At this point I'm not even sure it's possible without a complete overhaul of all classes and items.

And no, it can't be done with a snap of fingers. Wiping out half of the universe insanely simple by comparison.
"Wizards have good overtuned items" is a claim that proves you have absolutely no idea how itemization in D3 is, being Wizards have no LoN specs because of how low tuned their individual items are and how they need to rely on set bonuses.
Yup they nerfed blessed shield way to much. Looks like no season for me cuz thats what i was going to play. Nerfed at least10 lvls. While the unfun to play thorns set is 10 lvls above it.
Because they are balancing with 1 ton weights instead of grams. 2 ton is too heavy. 1 ton isn't heavy enough. Well we tried. Close enough.

Manual balancing like that is stupid on a binary scale, let alone trying to balance 20 different things.

The only way to do it properly is with micro buffs frequently over time until the lower builds get extremely close to the top builds. It's common sense. But as if common sense is something people listen to. After all, they are OP now and the lesser classes can just suck it!
Blizzard has always kinda been this way, Crusader was pretty fun when it first came out and cost money, than was relegated to the trash bin, rather than making every class viable, they generally pick one or two and push those ones pretty hard.

Just sucks because every time the crusader seems to be in a fun state they immediately nerf it. Was the same with Inarius necro, was really fun so they trash canned it ASAP.

you play what blizzard wants you to play or you play trash cans
Laziness, plain and simple. If they wanted to have allowed good fun LoN builds for all classes they could have. but they chose to make useless features instead.
05/18/2019 11:12 AMPosted by Coronary
Blizzard has always kinda been this way, Crusader was pretty fun when it first came out and cost money, than was relegated to the trash bin, rather than making every class viable, they generally pick one or two and push those ones pretty hard.

Just sucks because every time the crusader seems to be in a fun state they immediately nerf it. Was the same with Inarius necro, was really fun so they trash canned it ASAP.

you play what blizzard wants you to play or you play trash cans


What are you talking about? The Crusader never cost money; it was part of the RoS expansion.
05/15/2019 02:51 AMPosted by Kirottu
In order to have different classes to be able to serve in different roles in the meta would require insanely finetuned balancing. It is actually far more difficult than people think. At this point I'm not even sure it's possible without a complete overhaul of all classes and items.

And no, it can't be done with a snap of fingers. Wiping out half of the universe insanely simple by comparison.


The bottom line is that it feels like they care more about group balance than solo balance, because increasing a few numbers so that you survive more or do more damage with other classes in solo play is not hard.

I am pretty sure an intern could look and see that Barb is 5 GR levels behind with their top build, look at the algorithm, and then say oh....5 GR levels is 100% more damage roughly, so lets increase that classes damage for that build by 100% to properly balance them!

Sorry, that is not hard, it just is not at all!

Having perfect balance is going to be near impossible, but having every build for every class serve an intricate purpose and be within 5GR levels on the GR leaderboard should not be that hard.
05/15/2019 02:10 AMPosted by Schyzo
is blizzard in love with intelligence character?


One of the head developers just love Wizard and Necro is the one who sells the DLC. Not a hard conclusion to come up with.

05/18/2019 01:49 PMPosted by Demonmonger
Sorry, that is not hard, it just is not at all!


Actually it is hard when you consider each skill have different animation, wind up times, tick rates, animaton break points, cooldowns, varying uptime, duration, damage%, resource cost; it's hard. It'd be hard to find an exact replicate of the top class' key skill at the other classes because they're designed to be unique, not clones.
Also there's the fact that each weapon have a different min-max damage range and attack per second, which empowers all of your skills and they can not be equal as well. There are class based items which aren't supposed to mirror other items as much as classes' skill layout.
When you look at leaderboards, you'd realize top places are claimed after much GR "fishing"; so even when you try to compare some ridiculous clear as 14:59, you still couldn't give an accurate decision on how much damage output a class would need to catch up.

If you think it's practical, I'm open to read some examples of yours. So far as other elements in the equality goes, +100% damage boost does not equal to exact doubled dps when you consider everything.
05/18/2019 01:49 PMPosted by Demonmonger
Sorry, that is not hard, it just is not at all!


You have no idea what you're talking about.
There are a ton of things to consider, not just Grifts.
Sets are hard enough to make equal, never mind all the accompanying
legendaries.
Other games are similar, in PoE there is big differences also
in skills and classes in high end content.
Getting tired of all the whiners crying that their character isn't
doing the same Grifts as other characters.
If mages are the best, then make one.
I don't find the same problems in HC, cause high Grifts wipe out
squishy characters, like mages and Necros.
Make all classes, skills and items exactly the same, there you have balance. .....never will be good balance in this game.

Forum Mod Edit: This post has been edited by a moderator due to language. https://us.battle.net/forums/en/code-of-conduct/
05/15/2019 02:58 AMPosted by HolyDiver
"Wizards have good overtuned items" is a claim that proves you have absolutely no idea how itemization in D3 is, being Wizards have no LoN specs because of how low tuned their individual items are and how they need to rely on set bonuses.


You don't watch Youtube? Bazooka wiz is the most powerful LON build on this planet.
05/18/2019 02:15 PMPosted by naksiloth
Actually it is hard when you consider each skill have different animation, wind up times, effective cast times, tick rates, break points, cooldowns, varying uptime, weapon damage%, resource cost; it's hard. It'd be hard to find an exact replicate of the top class' key skill at the other classes because they're designed to be unique, not clones.


Yeah, this is fine and dandy when they are designing from the ground up, then I get it.

But right now, you can at least increase the numbers proportional to how far behind they truly are, and then run a PTR to get the actual progression increase.

Stop over thinking this, it is simply going in and changing a number, letting the players test it, and then fine tuning.

This is not a new game, the wheel is not being reinvented. If a build performs 5 GR levels behind, simply start with double the damage output of an integral piece in the build, test, and fine tune.

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