[PT2] Diablo IV - What do we expect?

General Discussion
Since the TopCommander Thread was locked ( https://us.battle.net/forums/en/d3/topic/20769770037?page=1 ) i wanna add :

  • Cursed items from D1(1)
  • Diminishing returns instead of hardcap(2)
  • chance to hit the enemy back(attack ratting) and an similar stat for spells(no more lv 1 decrepify cursing with 100% of success an prime evil)
  • More "necromantic" like spells for necromancer(3)
  • Staves with charges and that casts spells like on D1
  • Requirements to use certain weapons/armor(4)
  • Armor weights(5)
  • Powerful spells should come at cost(6)
  • Attributes that measure your character capabilities(7)
  • Balanced, mobs should have the same capabilities as PC(8)
  • Item enchanting(9)


1 - D1 had an concept called "beyond naked" where you wear cursed gear to make the game harder. That was amazing, i hope to see "beyond naked" speedruns on youtube/twitch.

2 - Instead of hardcapping the resitances at 75% like on D2, why not have no limit, but after 50, is needed 2 points to improve 1 point of resistance, at 60, 4 points per 1 point(...) the same applies to +skill level from gear. They should't stack or should be an softcap. Diminishing returns helps to reduce the power creep and maintain an challenge game.

3 - More spells that makes the necromancer class fells like the master of life and death. D&D has a lot of good spells to use as inspiration. For example, Finger of the Death that instant slay an creature that fails on a saving save or Wail of the Banshee that is an AOE finger. The blood skills of D3 are amazing, but IMO necromancers should be able to use enemy blood too.

A spell like VtMB's Blood boil should be added IMO > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZWAbkABMAg

And of course, curses like Iron Maiden should be back and raise an bone wall should be back from d2.

4 - No more fragile skinny guys with longbows, an weapon that historically required a lot of strength.

5 - No, i don't think that realistic inventory management is a good idea, unless we are talking about an horror game where you don't wanna the player to pick an medium machine gun fron his backpack and use it to slay an beast that he is supposed to fear, and this is not the case of an aRPG. But i think that plate armor and similar gear should fell more heavy. Same with weapon, an poleaxe/warhammer should be heavier than a katana(should be more deadly mainly against armored enemies too due obvious reasons), encumbrance should be an in game mechanic too.

6 - Powerful spells should come with an cost. Some costing XP(like wish on dnd), some cost expensive reagents(like diamond dust for stoneskin) or the caster own lifeforce. Maybe damage his own attributes like hellfire warlock on dnd.

7 - Attributes that measures your character capabilities, not tied to gear(makes no sense, how an jacket can affect someone IQ or muscle mass?), TopCommander mentioned skilltrees and etc, but not attributes. IMO attributes should come and should have diminishing returns(2), like on Dark souls and softcaps. Also, skills should require attributes. An guy with low int can't cast crystal soul spear on dark souls, an similar system should exist on D4.

8 - If the PC can curse an mob, the mob can curse the PC. If only the PC has access to powerful skills, the game loses his difficulty.

9 - Like on Elder Scrolls Morrowind where you use soul gems and trap enemy souls to imbue an item with specific propriety. Depending the type and materiel, the item can hold different magnitude of enchantment. If the player fails(part random, part determined by his skills/attributes), he should lose all materiel , xp and gold.
----------------------------------------------

Following my and TopCommander suggestions, D IV will be the most immersive aRPG on the market. Will clearly take out the first place from PoE.
Protip: When a thread is locked after multiple month+ long necrobumps, you don't try to go around that days after the last bump attempt was purged.

My suspicion that you two are one in the same otherwise grows.
this is all well and good for single player, but most of these "additions" didnt even make it to d2 for a reason.

iron maiden curse basically made it so barbarians could not run act 4 at all ever, why would this be fun?

honestly i wanna see the loot table from d2 with the skill trees from d3, with a great story and awesome game modes like we have now.

if d3 was its current incarnation at launch it would have been 1000x more successful.
06/08/2019 03:34 AMPosted by L0rdV1ct0r
Attributes that measures your character capabilities, not tied to gear(makes no sense, how an jacket can affect someone IQ or muscle mass?)

And yet you never complain about D1 and D2 gear can have stats on them to up certain attributes, like collecting gear with magic on it for the warrior so he can learn higher level spells, and only complain about D3 doing it.
Does that mean there should never be any attributes on any items and have to earn those levels to put points in attributes so that nice item you picked up at level 6 can't be used for a dozen levels until you have earned enough levels and put all your points into the required stat to use that particular item and hope that in doing that, that it doesn't make a mess of your character because you should of left the item and purely work on the attributes you need for the items you want to use at max level and get there at a crawl because you can't afford to waste your attributes in other areas to help you in the levelling process
06/08/2019 03:34 AMPosted by L0rdV1ct0r
D1 had an concept called "beyond naked" where you wear cursed gear to make the game harder. That was amazing, i hope to see "beyond naked" speedruns on youtube/twitch.

Which was only ever done with mages, unless you can show me a warrior with a cursed item that does 0 damage and kill a creature with it
06/08/2019 03:34 AMPosted by L0rdV1ct0r
No more fragile skinny guys with longbows, an weapon that historically required a lot of strength.

Just because you are skinny doesn't mean you are weak, you can be small and packed full of muscle
06/08/2019 03:34 AMPosted by L0rdV1ct0r
Following my and TopCommander suggestions, D IV will be the most immersive aRPG on the market.

Wishful thinking on your part. And all you really want to do is to make all RPG games should all be identical to one another, so if you played 1 rpg you have played them all because all fantasy worlds should all be the same as one another
06/08/2019 03:34 AMPosted by L0rdV1ct0r
If the PC can curse an mob, the mob can curse the PC. If only the PC has access to powerful skills, the game loses his difficulty.

How do you figure?
Can you imagine the necromancer going up against a mob of skeletons and just because the necromancer can throw curses the skeletons can now automatically throw curses and if its a wizard tackling the skeletons they can now automatically throw fireballs at you just because you can throw them
Can you imagine the chaos that will ensure when you have 3 different pc classes tackling a mob of skeletons and now the skeletons can do everything the 3 classes can do
06/08/2019 04:13 AMPosted by Saidosha
Protip: When a thread is locked after multiple month+ long necrobumps, you don't try to go around that days after the last bump attempt was purged.

My suspicion that you two are one in the same otherwise grows.


Did you see how many times i've disagreed with him? disagreed about runewords, about casuals(don't even agrees with his definition), etc

Anyway, i can post videos from my own channel far before i had purchased d3 to proof that i an not him, like this video ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDTeOPUL8G8 ) how many people can lift 500kg(1100 lb) on leg press 45º. You can see by the video language that i an from an different country.

PS : Why go to the gym? I should search an jacket that increases my muscle mass because it makes perfectly sense. LOL

06/08/2019 04:34 AMPosted by kagan
iron maiden curse basically made it so barbarians could not run act 4 at all ever, why would this be fun?


Not if curses can be resisted as i've mentioned.

I don't think that an "apprendice" necro with lv 1 iron maiden should be able to curse with 100% of success Uber Baal.... In fact, his curse chance should be something negligible.

The same happens to NPC's against PC's. Maybe an armor or skill that reduces debuffs and curses duration should be added, but is interesting IMO.
06/08/2019 04:13 AMPosted by Saidosha
Protip: When a thread is locked after multiple month+ long necrobumps, you don't try to go around that days after the last bump attempt was purged.

My suspicion that you two are one in the same otherwise grows.


Did you see how many times i've disagreed with him? disagreed about runewords, about casuals(don't even agrees with his definition), etc


Not really the point. Point is you don't go recreating someone else's thread after it gets locked due to repeated necros signaling a lack of interest.

Following my and TopCommander suggestions, D IV will be the most immersive aRPG on the market. Will clearly take out the first place from PoE.


https://www.dictionary.com/browse/hubris
Bro, you can play DnD or Elder scrolls or Dark souls. Diablo is an isometric loot hunting ARPG. What is good for Elder scrolls or Dark souls is not necessarily good for Diablo.
Troll status increased by 5.

Every one of those ideas is terrible.
I don't want DIABLO 4.

I like Diablo 3.

i want Diablo 3 Expansion. Not DLC, a big and last expansion.
Don't you have anything better to do?

*insert sarcasm gif*
06/08/2019 08:04 AMPosted by DonMartin
Every one of those ideas is terrible.

[/quote]

Then explain why this ideas are "awful"

06/08/2019 07:45 AMPosted by UngivenFame
Bro, you can play DnD or Elder scrolls or Dark souls. Diablo is an isometric loot hunting ARPG. What is good for Elder scrolls or Dark souls is not necessarily good for Diablo.


Diablo 1/2 are isometric aRPG's, D3 is just an loot hunt game.

About play other games, BG 3 got announced by people that probably don't even played an BG game or an similar game. How do i know? “The very obvious one would be that you tend to miss a lot when you roll the dice, which is fine when you’re playing on the tabletop, but it’s not so cool when you’re playing a video game,” Vincke said. “We had to have solutions for that.” Source https://www.tatech.org/baldurs-gate-iii-is-coming-for-pc-and-stadia-when-its-ready-takes-place-after-dds-descent-into-avernus/

Come on, hit/miss not work on video game? Did he played Pathfinder kingmaker? Icewind dale 1? IWD2? BG1?BG2? Morrowind? Daggerfall? Tons of other games. VtMB2 will be an console focused action adventure with barely any RPG elements and now BG3 will be sword coast legends 2 instead of a true rpg. Even Diablo 1/2 has hit/misses and it makes sense. An sword should be very ineffective dealing with large creatures or heavy armor.

The unique good thing about modern RPG design is criticize the modern games that are all awful

06/08/2019 08:04 AMPosted by DonMartin
Troll status increased by 5.


No, you din't played D3 enouth. My troll attack power is tied to the clothing that i an wearing. /justkidding
“The very obvious one would be that you tend to miss a lot when you roll the dice, which is fine when you’re playing on the tabletop, but it’s not so cool when you’re playing a video game,” Vincke said. “We had to have solutions for that.”


He's not wrong.

The concept of hit/miss is to more less compensate for the absent reality of graphical representation of position and attack effects that you wouldn't have in a tabletop game. In turn, the only way an ability really should miss in a modern 2.5/3D video game is if you didn't aim it correctly or the target moved. How damaging said attack is can then rely on armor or resistance checks.

So, yeah, this really comes off as yet another case of you just needlessly nitpicking because you think you know game design better than actual game designers. Someone not humoring you in specific examples on why your ideas suck could also be explained by experiencing them in the past in other titles and not liking them, but nonetheless not being good enough a reason for you because that's also where you saw them. Like, there's no good reason to have a spell that sacrifices EXP. And more generally, EXP loss is an antiquated mechanic in its own right because some people still automatically correlate failure to a need to punish.
06/08/2019 05:55 PMPosted by Saidosha
The concept of hit/miss is to more less compensate for the absent reality of graphical representation of position and attack effects that you wouldn't have in a tabletop game


No, represent to miss/deflect/evade. If you are swinging an sword against someone with mail armor, he will try evade, you can miss and guess what. Unless you hit on "gaps", you will not gonna cut his armor. Blunt weapons like Maces IMO should ignore a lot of enemy armor, but this is another discussion.

Pathfinder Kingmaker is a modern game with monsters that has 30 AC on hardest difficulties on earlier game, making your attacks very unlikely to hit and is an amazing game. Hit/Miss make the combat fells more tense and interesting. I was playing with an sorcerer of undead bloodline and an enemy rogue invisible sneaked to my cleric, i casted finger of the death(that works differently on pathfinder than dnd) and was an tense scene. Will he pass the "check" and kill my cleric? Or be OHKilled? The randomness of D&D/Pathfinder is what make the combat more tense and immersive.

And Diablo in less extent had this amazing mechanics on the past. My first hardcore death on D2 was against souls with auras that reduces my defenses. I never made an hardcore char and completed the game without fear again...

Note that on 2015, an sutdio tried to make an DnD game without using D&D rules, additing cooldowns and everything and the studio got bankrupted.

06/08/2019 05:55 PMPosted by Saidosha
is really comes off as yet another case of you just needlessly nitpicking because you think you know game design better than actual game designers.


Wrong. I an not "designing an game", i just making suggestions using as base, things that most 90s/earlier 00s games did right(diablo included), you can't point out an single original idea.

06/08/2019 05:55 PMPosted by Saidosha
ike, there's no good reason to have a spell that sacrifices EXP


Of course is. To make the player thinks before use the spell. On Dark souls 2, some Hexes costs souls and the strongest Hex(that is the strongest spell too) costs all souls that you are caring.
06/08/2019 05:55 PMPosted by Saidosha
some people still automatically correlate failure to a need to punish.


Some people just prefer an environment where achievements are earned and failure has consequences. I believe the word integrity sums it up rather well. I doubt they even teach that word in school anymore. To busy making sure everyone feels special and nobodies feelings get hurt.

If there are no consequences to anything you do then by definition you are....... Immortal.
06/08/2019 03:34 AMPosted by L0rdV1ct0r
Since the TopCommander Thread was locked ( https://us.battle.net/forums/en/d3/topic/20769770037?page=1 ) i wanna add :


Stop adding crap to closed threads.

You will get banned for one week.

Pathfinder Kingmaker is a modern game with monsters that has 30 AC on hardest difficulties on earlier game, making your attacks very unlikely to hit and is an amazing game. Hit/Miss make the combat fells more tense and interesting. I was playing with an sorcerer of undead bloodline and an enemy rogue invisible sneaked to my cleric, i casted finger of the death(that works differently on pathfinder than dnd) and was an tense scene. Will he pass the "check" and kill my cleric? Or be OHKilled? The randomness of D&D/Pathfinder is what make the combat more tense and immersive.


We're talking about ARPGs. That kind of moment-to-moment, turn-based decision making simply doesn't exist, nor should it be forced into existence. It has its own presence already in games where it works well.

And I'd argue that randomness doesn't make combat tense and immersive. If all your work means nothing due to factors outside your control, that's hardly a rewarding experience. Parity is what makes combat tense in the games you're talking about. If that rogue in your example was of a much higher level than you, FoD would simply fail and/or inflict minimum damage.

ARPGs aren't always after parity, though. This is the fundamental disconnect you have - you like a very specific kind of game, and anything that doesn't match your paradigm is bad. And while it's true your paradigm of game is successful and fun, it is not something mandatory.

06/08/2019 05:55 PMPosted by Saidosha
is really comes off as yet another case of you just needlessly nitpicking because you think you know game design better than actual game designers.


Wrong. I an not "designing an game", i just making suggestions using as base, things that most 90s/earlier 00s games did right(diablo included), you can't point out an single original idea.


Maybe if you hadn't gone on to claim that use of your suggestions "would make D4 the most immersive ARPG on the market."

That's called arrogance, pal.
why on earth would you want D4 if they can not provide enough content or new sets or new class's or anything in that matter why would you want D4 do you not have any sense? so there going to make D4 to steal your money because you complained enough to make them do it for a rough version with 0 content people these days drive me nuts for a company to do well would provide content for there users and if things went well they could make a second one or 3rd or what ever so all games created by the company earn alot to help pump out content but if things go down hill super fast why on earth would you want them to do content if they struggle with the games that's already out?

side note: i hate everything to do with D1 and D2 not a game so if any of these are in D4 id not even waste my time id prob just uninstall and go find another new game to enjoy
06/08/2019 06:59 PMPosted by Chetanji
06/08/2019 03:34 AMPosted by L0rdV1ct0r
Since the TopCommander Thread was locked ( https://us.battle.net/forums/en/d3/topic/20769770037?page=1 ) i wanna add :


Stop adding crap to closed threads.

You will get banned for one week.


Write more suggestions about an well received thread is against the forum rules? If yes, please. Report me.

06/08/2019 07:05 PMPosted by Orrion
And I'd argue that randomness doesn't make combat tense and immersive. If all your work means nothing due to factors outside your control, that's hardly a rewarding experience.


You gain items randomly on Diablo 3. So is technically possible to spend hundreds of hours and not get the item that you desire. And on D2, there are an "attack ratting"

Chance To Hit = 200% * {AR / (AR + DR)} * {Alvl / (Alvl + Dlvl)}
https://diablo.gamepedia.com/Attack_Rating_(Diablo_II)

06/08/2019 07:05 PMPosted by Orrion
If that rogue in your example was of a much higher level than you, FoD would simply fail and/or inflict minimum damage.


Rogues has low fortitude. Even if he has a lot of con, in most cases, the spell will hit him.

06/08/2019 07:27 PMPosted by Osiris
i hate everything to do with D1 and D2 not a game so if any of these are in D4 id not even waste my time id prob just uninstall and go find another new game to enjoy


Only one question. Why do you hate D1/D2? They are very successful and critical acclaimed games.
Nothing as long as the devs from D3 and the community manager from here are involved...

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