Calculate max archon stacks?


Note: It should have double slow time buffs for 4.24 starting APS not 4.09. It's refusing to save the setting for some reason. So, 20% slow time now 10%. And +183% increased starting APS. It won't save stretch time in the extra player at the bottom for some reason. I've tested in game. It stacks.

I'm designing this build on D3Planner to try to figure out max archon stacks with chantodo and vyr's. But I can't find enough info to figure out how many stacks can be achieved. Either with or without kills. Does anyone know how to calculate this?

I'm assuming AT:SD does Gogok, Chandoto stacks, and the CD for Archon in 1/3 of a second.

I'm assuming that the sparks from AT:SD do:

4+1 Hits(Assuming sparks and one initial blow.)
15 APS
0.2 Proc Coef


I'm also assuming Chantodo's is not proc coef based which means in 5 seconds of hits, or 1/3 of a second, it will hit 25 times. Giving room for error.

So, assuming that is all true, and that you can have a downtime of 1/3 second, how many stacks can you build on archon with this build?
I've hit 200 a few times with the standard build on top of maybe 160 residual, so ~360 stacks. With that build I would guess you could double that, at least. The Chantodos won't hit any faster in archon but the other skills will be firing like a machine gun and the Chantodo waves would hit like a damn truck. I don't have any real numbers to give, but it's an interesting concept. Would be a lot safer to play, too, with no awkward downtime in bad situations. But the rift density and access would still play a big part in how high you would go. Might not have enough mobs to feed that beast.
I'm also comparing that to these two builds. Each can sacrifice small amounts of APS for damage. I'm curious when the APS does or doesn't outway the damage bonuses.

Don't have the equipment to test yet. If it can actually get anywhere near double that would be interesting.

I'm assuming these builds would revolve around mega pulls. Just not sure how much damage they can actually get.

I wonder if you could get big enough bonuses from stack and from black hole to instantly spawn a grift boss and kill him within the 10 second bonus time.

Edit: I added a fairly equalized version of each of those builds to the original. Didn't think to add a different set to the same save.. 8)
TL;DR 180 stacks per Archon cycle without any kill stacks.

A whole lot more if you have kill stacks too: (I've been over 700 combined, but I don't have a screenshot)



So you're making a bunch of assumptions, and basically none of them are true.

06/21/2019 04:54 PMPosted by Aital
I'm assuming that the sparks from AT:SD do:

4+1 Hits(Assuming sparks and one initial blow.)
15 APS
0.2 Proc Coef


Are you assuming that proc coefficient is used by Obsidian Ring and Chantodo's Resolve stacking? Because it's not. It can be stacked by any skill as long as said skill has a proc coefficient, but it doesn't actually matter what that proc coefficient is. As long as you land a hit with a skill with a proc coefficient, it will gain a stack/proc Obsidian. Even if the proc coefficient is 0.001. But the side-bolts from AT:SD won't grant any additional stacks on top of the main hit, however they can grant you additional stacks once you stop channeling. You can basically assume you'll stack Chantodo's and proc Obsidian Ring at a rate of 1/APS, so 5 stacks/procs per second at max APS. There's some weird stuff that can happen with the ICD for Obsidian and Chantodo's and the breakpoints for channel skills, but we'll leave it at that for now.

06/21/2019 04:54 PMPosted by Aital
CD for Archon in 1/3 of a second.

Archon stacks are gained at a rate of roughly 1/APS, with some differences due to breakpoints.

However you can greatly simplify things if you are just at 5 APS all the time, as then the breakpoints aren't a factor anymore.

The Archon blast can also gain you Archon stacks independent of the beam, and you can cast it at a rate of once every 2/3 of a second.

So at 5 APS, max stacks without kill stacks for a single Archon cycle (so highest your Swami count can be without kill stacks) is 180. 50 from Swami, 20 seconds * 5 stacks per second from Achon beam/strike, and 30 stacks from blast.

Some further reading on the Vyr6 ICD and breakpoint mechanics:

That's from an older patch, and it might not be accurate anymore. I haven't retested the mechanics since then.

I'm not familiar enough with the d3planner simulator to comment on that. However you might find this helpful:

That's an older version of my Vyr6 stack simulator written in R. It's from an older patch, so it's not really accurate anymore. I've updated my own personal version, but I haven't posted it again because I haven't retested the mechanics to make sure they still work that way and I don't want to lead anyone astray. But it might be helpful to you.
If AT:SD is attacking at a rate of 15aps how does chantodo's and obisidian ring proc at 1aps?

I keep getting back and forth information on every single bit of info in this game. Would you mind stating how for certain you know what the proc rates are and what does or doesn't count towards proc. Including the sparks generating. Other sources say they count.
06/25/2019 09:02 AMPosted by Aital
If AT:SD is attacking at a rate of 15aps how does chantodo's and obisidian ring proc at 1aps?

At 5 APS, AT:SD attacks at a rate of 15 ticks per second. It ticks at roughly 3 times your attack speed, with some consideration for breakpoints. There's an important distinction between ticks per second and APS. Some things will proc at the tick rate, but some things will only proc once per set of ticks, so once every third tick with AT:SD, or once per 1/APS.

I'm not 100% sure on Chantodo's stacks and Obsidian Ring, but what I can tell you is that if you are spamming a single skill, you will gain Chantodo's stacks and Obsidian procs at a rate of roughly one stack/proc per 1/APS, or 5 stacks/procs per second at 5 APS. You can see this pretty easily by recording at 60 fps and then watching some frame-by-frame playback, and counting the number of frames between each Chantodo's stack gain/Obsidian proc. (That's what I did to figure out the Vyr6 ICD and beam breakpoint mechanics in that thread I linked in a previous post).

I'd say they both have an ICD of around 1/APS, except there's some weird stuff that can happen if you spam multiple skills. You can get multiple Chantodo's stacks at the same time by using two different skills. So they might have skill-specific ICDs based on the FPA of each skill or something.

For AT:SD, the side-bolts can grant stacks, yes. But if you are actively channeling, they won't grant additional stacks if the main bolts hit. If you are actively channeling, you should gain stacks roughly at a rate of 1/APS.

Where it gets interesting is if your channeling interrupted, the main-bolts and side-bolts that are still active can grant you additional stacks beyond when you stop channeling. This is the source of those extra Chantodo's stacks you see after you pop Archon.

Where it also gets interesting is if the side-bolts get delayed somehow, so they are in play for a long time after you stop channeling. Like, say, vs. a Missile Dampening elite. They can continue getting stacks at a rate of roughly 1/APS while they are still active. This is how you can get back to 20 stacks while still in Archon vs. Missile Dampening elites.

You aren't going to be gaining Chantodo's stacks or Obsidian procs at 15 stacks/procs per second. You'll be limited to about 5 stacks/procs per second, however you can exceed that by introducing additional skills that don't have an attack animation and that you can use at the same time as AT:SD, like Frost Nova (will stack Chantodo's but won't grant Obsidian procs) or Explosive Blast.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum