Barbarian Community Buff Proposal--UPDATES ARE LIVE!

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We've just released a massive update to the proposal that addresses cross-class comparisons and offers additional buff proposals. Every section has been updated with new information in BLUE text so you can tell the original bits from the new bits.

Check it out:

We're very excited as this completes our project and offers a complete vision of the Barbarian class!

As always, your feedback and support are much appreciated! And please spread the word: Tweet, email, and chat with your favorite streamers, YouTubers, and the Diablo devs and CMs (on Twitter) and let them know this proposal has been updated!


Hi folks.

While Season 17 brought awesome buffs to LON and some classes, Barbs were completely left out of the loop. Nevalistis acknowledged this and made a post about it:

04/26/2019 01:06 PMPosted by Nevalistis
To put it simply - we just couldn't get to Barb for this patch. We know there's areas to improve for Barb, and we want to do that right. We've got a working list of some of the more popular/most desired builds or changes you guys want to see and we're taking a look at options for the future.

No ETA on that, but we are looking at it. :)

But the Barb community here on the Bnet forums hasn't been sleeping on this. In fact, we've been hard at work on a MASSIVE, detailed, and carefully calculated buff proposal--and I'm here to unveil that to everyone:

The ideas presented in this pitch would fix long-standing issues with sets and skills, increase parity between major builds, elevate some minor builds to major status, and buff LoN and Primary skill builds to minor, and potentially major, status. It would also increase build diversity by offering Slam- and Avalanche-centric options for MOTE-based builds, a two-handed option for Rend builds, and more legitimate choices skill selection.

We sincerely hope that Community Managers and developers read our work and take our requests into consideration. Check that out and spread the word!


Update 1: Currently in the final stages of proofing and editing a massive update to the original proposal. This will include/address:

    + Intra- and inter-class parity
    + Regional and global leaderboard analysis
    + Why Barbs are considerably weaker than other classes and how to fix it
    + Diverse group play options for Barbs, including 5 potential DPS options from speeds to end-game

The master doc went from 23 pages to 38, and we're hoping to whittle a few more pages out before adding the material to the web site. Hoping to have the website fully updated in the next few days. Stay tuned!
I was about to suggest you to make another thread... :)

Anyway, Great job!

Renewed legendary powers, more play styles, yes, I love that. Personally, I prefer the complicated changes.
06/23/2019 09:32 PMPosted by JustinFan
Personally, I prefer the complicated changes.

So do we. List 2 represents what we truly need--it would fix ALL our class problems. On the flip side, it does require a lot more work than List 1.

I'm hoping we get List 2, but if we don't at least get List 1 (or its equivalent), we'll be in worse shape next Season.
06/23/2019 09:40 PMPosted by Free
I'm hoping we get List 2, but if we don't at least get List 1 (or its equivalent), we'll be in worse shape next Season.

Shape couldn't be worse. Already the worst (solo) among classes all servers. (ref:

Non-Season: barb 131, wd 137, wiz 143, dh 133, crus 134, nec 138, monk 133;
Season: barb 123, wd 130, wiz 135, dh 130, crus 128, nec 134, monk 128;
That is some amazing work done! I really hope the dev team will implement at least SOME of those ideas. I wonder if those changes are enough to bring barbs out of support slavery in group GR pushing. T_T
Conan, what is best in life?

To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, to hear the lamentations of their women and to up-vote this thread!
Good work free, but I do have some small notes (as I always do...)

With frenzy, you push to increase the stacks to 20 with bastions revered, this may be a bit counterproductive due to the time it takes for them to fall of, unless you're constantly in a fight, you have to wind up these stacks quite often, sure they're applied faster the faster you hit, but it's just a minor thing to note.

Also have you counted the gearing for primary build when you planned that? , so due to the design of IK, you're sort of in a weird spot when it comes to the belt option, frenzy belt is fun yes, but it competes with depth diggers for that armor slot in cube. Maybe move some damage onto bastions revered to still have some direct frenzy damage added, meaning you can still have some frenzy damage, and also wear depth diggers to buff other skills.

Also I want to point out that frenzy thorns can benefit from having an improved version of hack, since it's literally the only build using that weapon properly, and before you say anything invoker doesn't use it because it's additive. You might scare Blizzard away by asking for an eight time increase on the thorns passive, in which I doubt they were even serious about when they added in the first place.

Concerning ww and rend, I'm almost ashamed of you not to include bk swords into you're suggestions, you could literally just add 45% damage while channeling ww, it fits the set since it has that buff on both speed and attack speed, just adding damage to emphasize on "you do damage when you channel ww" , applied bleeds will take great advantage from this buff due to their duration.

That and adding rend to the 6 piece bonus, adding a rend weapon, and possibly adding morticks bracers, should be enough to push that build into the 135 range.

Also,dont be afraid to buff charge a little, it's a fun build, and can be good for speed rifting, atleast try to strive for having more or less the same end result, strive for that 135 mark atleast for all builds. Some may not be as hard as others, but some may be the preferred playstyle for that person, negating that because you want to set a difference between difficult builds and easy builds is not ideal.

Otherwise, gj on the list.
Just accept barbs are a leftover class from vanilla.
And learn to play something else.
I did
Damn, that's a solid work. Hope you'll get listened, even if I don't play barb, i must admit you have done a tremendous work here.
That is some good piece of work!
You do realize that Monk didn't get any buffs either. Don't you?
Thanks for the support, fellas! I just wanted to make a few comments.

1) For us, build diversity within the Barbarian class was more important than parity with other classes.

As we all know, Wizards using the Vyr and Chantodo sets are currently very powerful. However, I've seen a lot of comments from Wizard players complaining about this. Many have been along the lines of "wow, I really wanted to play Tal / Firebird / DMO, etc, but now I pretty much feel forced to play Vyr." And honestly, that's a bad feeling- to have lots of "options", most of them clearly inferior.

So, this is why we focused more on elevating weaker builds than on pushing our strongest build, R6 HOTA. If playing the game was only about doing the most damage and clearing the highest GR, then nobody would play any class but Wizard. But, people play Barb, or Monk, or DH, etc, because they like the aesthetics and gameplay of that class. And, having made the decision to play a particular class, it's very nice to have different options to choose from, and not feel as though you are locked in to one single "ideal" option.

2) Free and I talked about and considered a lot of input from various members of the Barb community while developing these lists of potential changes. And, wherever possible, we tried to resolve contradictions within this input in the most productive way we could.

For instance, we received a lot of requests for Seismic Slam based builds to be empowered, but we also heard from players concerned that our HOTA builds would be outclassed by a buffed SS, and would fall completely out of use. The various changes we arrived at should allow us to have both SS and HOTA builds in fairly tight competition.

We also, of course, received a large number of requests for a buff to Rend. Here too, there was a fairly thin line that had to be walked in order to make Rend usable without making it overly powerful. If Rend is too weak, people still won't use it, and if it's too strong, then Whirlwind will feel useless. But, I think we've achieved a set of buffs to Rend that will allow it to be very useful when deployed alongside Whirlwind, while not being overpowered.

Thanks again for your support!
06/24/2019 05:23 AMPosted by TrvAix
You do realize that Monk didn't get any buffs either. Don't you?

Of course.

And if Free and I were Monk experts, we would probably put together a set of recommendations for Monks. But, we're not, so we didn't. However, I highly encourage you to do what we did: get a discussion going on the Monk forum, and figure out a sensible set of buffs to ask for.

We focused on Barbs because that's our area of expertise, not due to bad feelings about any other class.

Best of luck!
Some interesting buff ideas, but man would many primals become worthless. Wouldn't just buffing the set bonus be a bit more benign?
06/24/2019 06:18 AMPosted by TrvAix
No you guys are clearly acting like barb is the only class that didn't get buffs.

Nah, dude. We know other classes have had issues, too. We just focused on the issues of the class we know best.

06/24/2019 06:18 AMPosted by TrvAix
Also ZBarb is in the meta for 150s and also speeds in Rat Runs. You want to be the top DPS too?

If you'd actually read our document you'd realize that our proposed changes don't make our class stronger in terms of group DPS. So, no.

06/24/2019 06:18 AMPosted by TrvAix
There are classes like Demon Hunter, Crusader, and Witch Doctor that aren't even used in four player. I mean honestly Demon Hunter RGK is a joke compared to Necro. Surely those classes need buffs before a buff to Barbarian damage.

I'm all for those classes getting some buffs. I'm not going to be the one to figure that out, though, because I lack the expertise in those classes.
06/24/2019 06:32 AMPosted by Ludens
Some interesting buff ideas, but man would many primals become worthless. Wouldn't just buffing the set bonus be a bit more benign?

Hey, Ludens.

I can see what you're saying but that wouldn't fix a lot of the problems we were aimed at. For instance, the many issues with Rend can't be fixed that way: the skill needs to be added to Wastes (6), and additional supporting legendaries as well. And, when playing MOTE, Avalanche will always be far, far behind Earthquake until there are some better legendaries to support it. You get the idea.

Also, a lot of the items we created new affixes for are ones that are currently never used by anybody. Who uses Fjord Cutter? Or Ambo's Pride? or Bul-Kathos's Wedding Band? Most of the items we modified are currently basic auto-salvage. Hopefully, our proposed changes will make finding some of these items exciting again.
Free and Rage. You two put some great work into this drawing on your own experience and that of so many that you have journeyed with - S4v, nub, jako, KB, CC, Sil, Proey and so many more.

Well done and lets hope the devs get some changes happening.

You deserve a beer.

06/24/2019 07:20 AMPosted by Bastich
Well done and lets hope the devs get some changes happening. You deserve a beer. Cheers

Thanks very much, Bastich! Fingers crossed...

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