Barbarian Community Buff Proposal--UPDATES ARE LIVE!

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Just passing by, to show supportz

We have been thru many PTR battles together with Free and we have spend hours and hours on providing feedback. I’m glad to see new folks like Rage sitting by the table. Just like I took the “job” after Conquistador back in a days, he is taking the torch from my hands.

Carry it high Nephalem! And don’t let trolls distract you. The one you dealing with had very little clue about the game mechanics about a year ago, I personally was explaining stricken mechanics and Necro corpse lancer to him on forums. Barbs always prevailed, because barbs always had best and most knowledgeable communit on these forums. Best number crunchers, best and most complex guides, best threads on PTR’s that were always result of community discussions.
Hey Rashiel, just wanted to try to answer a few of your questions.

So, for primary builds, we mostly built around LoN. But IK can do the job too. With IK, the most effective option would probably be to wear a RoRG, equip either Saffron Wrap or Depth Diggers, and cube the other. Or, if playing Frenzy, you could cube or wear Undisputed Champion rather than DD. Saffron, Undisputed, and DD pants would all surpass CoE in damage. Your other rings would probably be Compass Rose and BoM.

For weapons, you would have a few options to choose from: Oathkeeper, Dishonored, Warlord, or 300th.

As far as skills are concerned, you are correct: you'd probably be using WOTB - COTA - Charge or Stomp - Overpower - "Primary" - "Spender"

However, we also requested a buff to the Fury of the Ancients shoulders, which doubles the attack speed of the Ancients. If you maximize Fury generation and RCR, you could probably play with Bash alone, as "Spender" (in density you could generate additional fury via Charge). This would then allow you to take Revenge in the "Primary" slot, and use our buffed Madawc's Sorrow in the cube, in order to inflict some significant aoe damage.

If you decide not to go that option, then "Primary" could be Weapon Throw and "Spender" Boulder Toss (using 300th Spear, Oathkeeper, Skular's). Or "Primary" could be Frenzy and "Spender" Bash (With Oathkeeper, Warlord, Bastion's in cube).

Anyway, there are a lot of options. Like I said, we mostly built around LON, since Barbs have had such bad LON builds for so long. But I don't see any reason why IK can't flourish too.

You also asked about Revenge and its cooldown. When I was testing, Revenge was rarely on cooldown for very long, even against small groups of enemies. It's definitely possible that at certain points you'd get unlucky and wouldn't be able to refresh your buff, but I don't think that's going to happen super often.
Just passing by, to show supportz. We have been thru many PTR battles together with Free and we have spend hours and hours on providing feedback. I’m glad to see new folks like Rage sitting by the table. Just like I took the “job” after Conquistador back in a days, he is taking the torch from my hands. Carry it high Nephalem!

Thanks very much, S4v!
Rash, please note the new affix for BK Wedding Band. It's meant as a direct competitor to COE and FnR.
06/24/2019 12:52 PMPosted by Rage
So, for primary builds, we mostly built around LoN. But IK can do the job too. With IK, the most effective option would probably be to wear a RoRG, equip either Saffron Wrap or Depth Diggers, and cube the other. Or, if playing Frenzy, you could cube or wear Undisputed Champion rather than DD. Saffron, Undisputed, and DD pants would all surpass CoE in damage. Your other rings would probably be Compass Rose and BoM.


Yeah I was just wondering how your thought process was on it, I think it's sad losing battle rage due to the aoe component in it, but yes it is more damage to cube one belt/depthdiggers and use rrog.

06/24/2019 12:52 PMPosted by Rage
You also asked about Revenge and its cooldown. When I was testing, Revenge was rarely on cooldown for very long, even against small groups of enemies. It's definitely possible that at certain points you'd get unlucky and wouldn't be able to refresh your buff, but I don't think that's going to happen super often.


I was more concerned if it would fall off or not, I used the word refreshable as in would I be able to refresh the stacks with only hitting one enemy?

It was just so you wont end up facing a single monster boss and the stacks falls off and he wallops you, not in the sense that the cooldown is too long or so, but that hitting one monster refreshes all the previous stacks. I just wanted a clarification so you weren't keeping it as an only density ability.

06/24/2019 01:26 PMPosted by Free
Rash, please note the new affix for BK Wedding Band. It's meant as a direct competitor to COE and FnR.


Aaah yes, I did see that, and sure, it may be a competitor, but when i mentioned about losing CoE, it was more that you have to trade CoE for BoM on a LoN version of primary build, due how squishy it naturally is. Had it been this season when you got the LoN buff without the rings, then sure, but as it stands now, you cant muster enough defence without BoM. I think that was what you were referring to...?

And also guys, I hope you dont take this the wrong way, I'm just trying to stamp out loopholes and such, so nothing is missed. I'm all for buffing these builds.
I was more concerned if it would fall off or not, I used the word refreshable as in would I be able to refresh the stacks with only hitting one enemy?It was just so you wont end up facing a single monster boss and the stacks falls off and he wallops you, not in the sense that the cooldown is too long or so, but that hitting one monster refreshes all the previous stacks. I just wanted a clarification so you weren't keeping it as an only density ability.

Ok, now I think I see what you're saying.

You're asking: With our proposed Skull of Resonance affix, you get mitigation by hitting enemes with Revenge. The mitigation is equal to the healing percent (up to 60% with the Blood Law rune). If I hit a bunch of guys, and have 60% mitigation, and then 5 seconds later I leave density and hit one guy, do I have 60% mitigation, or 6% mitigation?

Right?

The answer is, you'll have 6% mitigation. We designed that affix to be a sort of supplement to BoM, most useful in density (a noteworthy point of comparison would be the Monk belt "Binding of the Lost"). As with many builds, you'll be tougher in density, and will have to play a bit more carefully against dangerous single targets. You probably wouldn't use this item with IK, since you don't have the gear slot for it, just with LON. This does mean you're going to need to have BoM in the cube, rather than CoE (because the LON rings will fill your worn slots), and will thus lose some damage.

But consider: LoN's bonus is more than 2x IK's. You can also take Saffron Wrap AND Depth Diggers AND Undisputed Champion. And because you don't need to take COTA, you can take BR, TS, or WC for extra damage or toughness.

In other words, there will be tradeoffs between damage and toughness, just like with all builds.

06/24/2019 02:39 PMPosted by Rashiel
And also guys, I hope you dont take this the wrong way, I'm just trying to stamp out loopholes and such, so nothing is missed. I'm all for buffing these builds.

No problem, dude.
06/24/2019 02:39 PMPosted by Rashiel
Aaah yes, I did see that, and sure, it may be a competitor, but when i mentioned about losing CoE, it was more that you have to trade CoE for BoM on a LoN version of primary build, due how squishy it naturally is. Had it been this season when you got the LoN buff without the rings, then sure, but as it stands now, you cant muster enough defence without BoM. I think that was what you were referring to...?


Yes, but some of our ideas present other ways for LON builds to gather enough mitigation post S17. Some of our passives do the trick, and much of the work we did on those is meant to compete directly with defensive legendary gems. If we get List 2--or even most of List 2--you'll have several options for acquiring enough mitigation in LON and IK primary skill builds.

As for Skull's affix, Rage explained it, but it's very similar to how Parthans works, and there are numerous ways builds survive against RGs without adds.

Anyway, one of our goals was about designing items that require players to make choices. Do I give up some mitigation for more damage, or . . . ? And really, mitigation isn't the biggest issue for most builds as you climb GR tiers. It's damage.

In S18, if we got the List 2 buffs and you wanted to run a LON build, you'd have to wear the LON rings, and the Cube slot would go to whatever you needed most. In most cases, it will be Band of Might, because it's so dang strong, but there are other ways to get around that (Sword and Board + Relentless + Skull -- or even Lamentation if you put Rend on the bar).
Hi guys, sorry for my english, it's not my native language. Ty.
So my toughs and questions:
- why would you like to do all builds the equal high grs? Non of the other classes can't.All classes has stongest es weakest builds/sets.
- i think every classes needs efficient 1 or 2 push builds, 1 or 2 speed build in rift(maybe with sage sets) and 1 or 2 bounty builds and 1 or 2 support/party dps builds
- gr90 can be doable with every sets with proper gearing and para800-1000
- i really miss a build focusing to rend
- barb trully lack of LoN builds, but i dont think frenzy skills will be a perfect for it,i would be really happy a barb build with rend like a star pact wizard. You can buff rend damage with fury and using other skills and take care of proper timing
- i really like barbarian, barb was my main on the first 2-3 month after d3 realeased in 2012.
So pls do not get my toughts as an offense:)
Br. Adam

Ps: i'm from EU servers.
06/24/2019 03:44 PMPosted by AdamK
Hi guys, sorry for my english, it's not my native language. Ty.


No apologies necessary -- thank you for your feedback! I'll do my best to answer your questions.

- why would you like to do all builds the equal high grs? Non of the other classes can't.All classes has stongest es weakes builds/sets.


We don't. With some help from the bug pack, R6 HOTA has cleared 134, but since Hulda asked for his account to be deleted, that clear has been rolled back (and yes, it was in Season). However, there's considerable evidence that R6 HOTA can do 132-134 without the bug pack, and it definitely has the highest damage potential of all our current builds. We are confident R6 HOTA will get 132+, and we want builds with similar complexity (Zodiac WW) to be within 1-2 GRs of that build. We feel that other builds should be within 2-4 GRs of R6 HOTA.

In other words, we don't want all builds to be equal, but we do want more parity between them, especially at low Paragon.

06/24/2019 03:44 PMPosted by AdamK
- i think every classes needs efficient 1 or 2 push builds, 1 or 2 speed build in rift(maybe with sage sets) and 1 or 2 bounty builds and 1 or 2 support/party dps builds


Hmm. I'm not sure I agree. Regardless, that's where we're at right now, and our buffs aren't going to change it.

06/24/2019 03:44 PMPosted by AdamK
- i really miss a build focusing to rend


Our buffs would provide that very thing! Take a look at our List 2 ideas for Wastes, WW, and Rend!

- barb trully lack of LoN build, but i dont think frenzy skills will be a perfect for it,i would be really happy a barb build with rend like a star pact wizard. You can buff rend damage with fury and using other skills and take care of proper timing


Our List 2 ideas will make several different LON and primary builds much stronger (GR 120+), and several might even be considerably stronger. Frankly, Frenzy is easily the best Primary we have due to its ability to scale extremely well with attack speed, but if you look at List 2, you'll see we came up with ways that a Bash or Weapon Throw + Boulder Toss build can be almost as strong.

As for Rend, since it's included in the Wastes set, we feel that's where it should be strongest. We did, however, provide items in List 2 that would allow you to make a very strong LON Rend build!

Hope that helps, Adam! Thanks again for your feedback!
06/23/2019 09:18 PMPosted by Free
Hi folks.

While Season 17 brought awesome buffs to LON and some classes, Barbs were completely left out of the loop.


Frenzy Thorns with the free LoN buff is certainly a possibility. I tried for a bit. Did not push too high and croaked in HC, but that was my own damn fault.
In season 17, Frenzy Thorns can clear maaaaaaybe 105. That's... not good.

I think the best Barb LON build for S17 is LON HOTA. There's a good guide on the build by Prometeusz.
Extremely polished and well thought-out product, Free. Thanks to all the awesome Barb's that put the work into it. My only complaint would be that a buff to girdle of Giants would mean refarming one, when it literally took a year of reforging to get a good one. Maybe they'll get rid of that silly native attack speed roll lol
06/24/2019 04:52 PMPosted by Metro
Frenzy Thorns with the free LoN buff is certainly a possibility.


Not at all, my friend. It's incredibly weak, especially compared to LON HOTA, and even that build is weak compared to what other classes can do with the Season theme.

Our proposal would make a variety of LON builds not just possible, but potentially viable.
06/24/2019 05:40 PMPosted by Poconut
Extremely polished and well thought-out product, Free. Thanks to all the awesome Barb's that put the work into it. My only complaint would be that a buff to girdle of Giants would mean refarming one, when it literally took a year of reforging to get a good one. Maybe they'll get rid of that silly native attack speed roll lol


Same -- and mine isn't even that good!

Still, buffs are buffs, and most of the buffs are targeted at useless or weak items, so it won't be very painful in most instances.

06/24/2019 12:21 PMPosted by Kylol
If I don't get boulder toss back as a top tier fury dump, I think my life is going to spiral downhill in a serious way. We're talking overeating, undersleeping, and getting lost in the woods, the whole 9.


Like you, I absolutely LOVE Boulder Toss, and we absolutely found ways to make it powerful again.
06/24/2019 05:41 PMPosted by Free
06/24/2019 04:52 PMPosted by Metro
Frenzy Thorns with the free LoN buff is certainly a possibility.


Not at all, my friend. It's incredibly weak, especially compared to LON HOTA, and even that build is weak compared to what other classes can do with the Season theme.

Our proposal would make a variety of LON builds not just possible, but potentially viable.


This is out of topic but I'm curious - how much power gap is there between LON and IK HOTA (Or any other non-LON HOTA)? LON has near 100x dmg multiplier + multiple Fire DMG from items vs IK HOTA's Perma WotB, IK bonus, Istavans, Endless Walk... I'm collecting gear for LON HOTA right now but I might scrap it if the difference is too big.
06/24/2019 06:55 PMPosted by mintCookie
LON HOTA right now but I might scrap it if the difference is too big.

LoN HotA is a season only and will not compete well with any set build in NS.
Para 1900+ has a 120 seasonal clear.
Just want to stop by that you guys have done phenomenal work. The passion you guys have for the game really shows with all that number crunching and unique changes to legendary items that show the true potential of this game. Reading through your proposed changes made me rethink some ideas for the demon hunter (sorry barb fans), and I might be able to break the "we always have to have dawn" boorishness so that other legendary powers can shine.

Maybe The Potato King will stop by to offer some his knowledge, I mean ummmm...potatoes, lots and lots of potatoes...
Joining in for support !!

Top notch work, here's to hoping it gets read and implemented soon.

It would make me dump some hours into the game again.

All the best!!
06/24/2019 07:43 PMPosted by SlayerJ
Reading through your proposed changes made me rethink some ideas for the demon hunter (sorry barb fans), and I might be able to break the "we always have to have dawn" boorishness so that other legendary powers can shine.

Awesome! I'll look forward to seeing what you come up with. And thanks for the support!

06/24/2019 08:42 PMPosted by SapodoDiabo
Joining in for support !! Top notch work, here's to hoping it gets read and implemented soon. It would make me dump some hours into the game again. All the best!!

Thanks SD!
06/24/2019 07:43 PMPosted by SlayerJ
Just want to stop by that you guys have done phenomenal work. The passion you guys have for the game really shows with all that number crunching and unique changes to legendary items that show the true potential of this game. Reading through your proposed changes made me rethink some ideas for the demon hunter (sorry barb fans), and I might be able to break the "we always have to have dawn" boorishness so that other legendary powers can shine.


I'm very glad we could inspire players of other classes to take on similar proposals. If you put together a list of buffs and changes, please let us know!

06/24/2019 08:42 PMPosted by SapodoDiabo
Joining in for support !!

Top notch work, here's to hoping it gets read and implemented soon.


Many, thanks, Sapo. I love seeing the Barb veterans in this thread. Reminds me of the tight-knit community we have, and how hard we've worked to maintain that. Thank you for your support!

06/24/2019 12:48 PMPosted by S4v4G3
We have been thru many PTR battles together with Free and we have spend hours and hours on providing feedback. I’m glad to see new folks like Rage sitting by the table. Just like I took the “job” after Conquistador back in a days, he is taking the torch from my hands.


Great to see you pop up in this thread. I agree with you, and I hope you'll pop back in from time to time--you're a valuable member of the Barb community, one of the blooded vets, so to speak, and you'll always have a place at the table.

:)

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