Barb Buff Proposal for 2.6.6--UPDATES LIVE!

Barbarian
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That would be the Tweet heard around the world!
Lol. Yeah, Arch, that about sums it up. Serro, for the impatient, Free says in the introduction, ‘if you just want to see the suggestions, scroll down to the lists.’ It doesn’t really get more streamlined than that, unless we change the title of the doc to “Barbs Need Damage!” or “Yo Barb Sucks”.

I don’t think there’s any way to proof the document against a lazy or hostile reader. We just have to hope Blizz will give it their honest attention.
07/01/2019 08:51 AMPosted by Rage
It doesn’t really get more streamlined than that, unless we change the title of the doc to “Barbs Need Damage!” or “Yo Barb Sucks”.


There's been a lot of discussion regarding the presentation of scientific data these days that actually agrees with this approach, you can follow some of it here on twitter:

https://twitter.com/mikemorrison

And the template here:

https://osf.io/j35qw/

From the image:

Main finding goes here, translated into plain english. Emphasize the important words.

So in the spirit of that our Twitter image/poster should be:

Barbs suck and we need more damage!

The Yo can be optional.
Actually, this is something we all talked about in other threads, and the upcoming update does in fact contain a brief summary of the issue at the very top.

But this approach requires the right touch. The last thing we want to do is come across as flippant or disrespectful. "Yo, do our bidding!" is less tactful than, "Here are some problems with our class, and here are some possible solutions" is a much more diplomatic approach. Morrison's ideas are interesting, but we're not presenting scientific information, and we're not doing it at a conference where attendees are likely to get bogged down in panel after panel. Instead, I'd much prefer to rely on the tone of the piece, the quality of the analysis and suggestions, and the power of rhetoric to make the points. And that's where we're going to stay.

However--you know what would be helpful?

When the proposal is update (probably this week), if you guys want to make posters for it and tweet to various Blizzard/D3 staff, that would be awesome!
Yeah, agreed: that would be awesome.
The "yo" tweet thing was a joke, although I'm pretty sure they'd take tweets seriously, lol. Honestly the message is extremely simple. They can go through pages and pages of data if they want to see the justification but you can literally communicate the problem in one sentence.

"Wall charge bugs aren’t a substitute for actual damage, please look at barb skills and items because they are all under-performing."

That's really it.
Big update: Nev responded in the GD thread for this topic:

07/02/2019 06:00 PMPosted by Nevalistis
Just want to say - this hasn't gone unnoticed. As you know, I can't make any promises. But I can make sure the appropriate eyes take a look, and I've made sure that's the case. :)

Thanks for all the hard work you do for the Barbarian community, Free (as well as to everyone else who contributed). It's greatly appreciated!


While nothing is set in stone, this is great news--and very welcome communication from the CM!

Way to go, Barbs! Let's keep up the momentum -- keep sharing, upvoting, and spreading the word!
Awesome! Well at least you guys know you haven't gone unnoticed! Here's to hoping we get some good changes for 2.6.6.
Cool update but are they still going to be hitting the old proposal? Because the first few pages of the original are comprised of buffs that won’t make much difference.

For example +1 or 2 GR levels for Barb sets won’t change anything for 99% of players and devs have been hiding behind Raekor for years now.

Another example: Frenzy and Thorns Frenzy would both need major numeric overhauls to be remotely close to relevant. Bastion’s Revered to 20 or even 30 stacks won’t make Thorns relevant. Devs have their work cut out for them.

The original report frames things as being ok and leaning towards status quo which is the horrible state Barb is in currently.

I don’t mean to sound negative just don’t trust the devs having infinite time or patience to reach the right conclusions if all they read is the first few pages.
07/03/2019 11:15 AMPosted by Archael
Cool update but are they still going to be hitting the old proposal? Because the first few pages of the original are comprised of buffs that won’t make much difference.

For example +1 or 2 GR levels for Barb sets won’t change anything for 99% of players and devs have been hiding behind Raekor for years now.

Another example: Frenzy and Thorns Frenzy would both need major numeric overhauls to be remotely close to relevant.

The original report frames things as being ok and leaning towards status quo which is the horrible state Barb is in currently.


The web site is getting updated today or tomorrow and we'll be updating the threads to boot. I'm sure they'll get word of an update, but at this point, we don't know anything for certain.

In the end, some buffs are better than nothing.
The skeptic in me really thinks you have to keep things as simple and easy to understand as possible for this kind of thing.

Devs don’t fish with WW for 300 hours to understand the issues with Rend.

Devs don’t push with Raekor or IK to understand why wall charge is clunky.

They just see Barbs clearing 5-10 GR levels within the other classes and call it a day.

That is why it’s important to drive home the points we raised.

Small stuff like 30 stack Bastion’s or +2 GR levels won’t change anything for the class and we’ll be back to where we’re at within 2 weeks of patch arrival. They have to be made aware of the issues and if they feel like adding mechanics then OK.
There's not going to be any way to miss the updates, other than not reading the document at all. There's a ton of new material at the front end, it's super obvious.
UPDATE 7/3:
We've just released a massive update to the proposal that addresses cross-class comparisons and offers additional buff proposals. Every section has been updated with new information in BLUE text so you can tell the original bits from the new bits.

Check it out: http://barbarianbuffproposals.strikingly.com/

We're very excited as this completes our project and offers a complete vision of the Barbarian class!

As always, your feedback and support are much appreciated! And please spread the word: Tweet, email, and chat with your favorite streamers, YouTubers, and the Diablo devs and CMs (on Twitter) and let them know this proposal has been updated!
Looking good! Good luck!

This is my favorite part:

“Our conclusion is this: Even with broken, gimmicky mechanics masking our weak damage potential, the gap between Barbarians and the average of other classes is 4.1 GR tiers. Without additional buffs, the Barbarian class will continue to be the weakest class in Diablo III.”
07/03/2019 04:42 PMPosted by Archael
Looking good! Good luck!


Thanks!

Excellent community effort on this one. I don't think we could have painted a better or more clear picture of A) what's wrong with Barbs, and B) how to fix it.

I'm very proud of the work we've all done, and very glad to have worked so closely with Rage on this.

As always, folks, help promote this! Make charts, videos, tweets, and share this!
Thank you Free and Rage for putting this together, and everyone who's contributed to the discussions. Make Barbs great again!
Thanks, Arch! Thanks, Gooball!
Thanks again for the support, everyone.

I was just reading over the site, and I was struck by a single thought: THIS IS THE BARB I WANT TO PLAY.

I want to play Zodiac WW where Rend isn't just worthwhile--it's essential!

I want to play an Avalanche-focused MOTE build!

I want to play IK Frenzy RGK in a group!

I want to try out our generator build with Revenge and Overpower!

I want that sweet, sweet Remorseless we cooked up, and I want to load up some IK HOTA and SMASH!

I truly feel that our proposed changes would make Barbs what they were always meant to be--powerful, versatile, and fun, and that none of the distinct identity of our builds and sets would be lost. When I look at our proposed changes, I see many ideas from many folk here in the community, and I see the potential outlines of a class that truly, finally fulfills its potential. I'm really glad to have worked on this and I'm extra glad to share it with all of you.

But remember, we can't do this without you. Please spread the word: Tweet, email, and chat with your favorite streamers, YouTubers, and the Diablo devs and CMs (on Twitter) and let them know this proposal has been updated!
Well said, Free!
The updates are easy to read and easy to see. Super hyped about this proposal. Great job guys. Glad I could add even a small amount of value to it all.

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