What 6 features should D4 have?

General Discussion
07/02/2019 10:01 AMPosted by ElobaCarcen
A good solution if to have two different options on the character creation screen, where you can choose if you want to play a self found character or a character that is able to trade

I am all for options, but something like that would only be needed of there's a competitive aspect to the game... and there may or may not be.
07/02/2019 04:50 AMPosted by clueso
I dread the return of a ladder-like difficulty system like in D2

Technically, they are all ladder-like in a way.
D2 had /players 1 – 8

Yes, but you still had to run through story mode over and over and over again from Normal-Nightmare-Hell.

Also, /playersX is more like a slider than a ladder and to be more precise, it is a slider on top of a ladder.

07/02/2019 04:50 AMPosted by clueso
In vanilla, no one was even able to play Torment 5 or 6 and the vast majority of people did not even play on T4.

D3 Vanilla had Monster Power 1 - 10, not Torment lvls 1-6
D3 RoS has Torment 1 - 16 in theory, but in practice it's more like GR 1 – 150.

In the few months or weeks before RoS came out there was a patch that introduced the new difficulty system iirc, so technically I am correct with that, but yes, you are right, for the most part the Torment difficulty setting was used with RoS.

So when I have to be more precise, in the late days of classic and the early days of RoS, before all these massive multipliers were introduced, no one was even able to play Torment 5 or 6 and the vast majority of people did not even play on T4.

07/02/2019 04:50 AMPosted by clueso
where you always, with every single character have to repeat the story again and again by going through Normal-->Nightmare-->Hell (and then eventually -->Inferno as well). It just becomes tediously repetitive after a few run-throughs

It's not what I was asking for.

If not that, then for what, if I may ask?

07/02/2019 10:01 AMPosted by ElobaCarcen
07/02/2019 04:50 AMPosted by clueso
The problem with D3's difficulty slider system (aka dynamic difficulty) is not the system or the idea itself, but these massive and insanely inflated multipliers on sets and legendaries. If they wouldn't exist (or at least not to the extend to which they do now), there would be no need to even have more than 10 difficulty levels.

And what about infinite Paragon. Should that exist?

In my personal opinion infinite Paragon should exist, but it should not give you any power, but rather it should give you 'points' so to speak with which you can unlock new cosmetics.

If I could have done the leveling system in D3, each level would take significantly longer so you would not just be at max level within 10 minutes when you get powerleveled or within 1-4 hours (depending on how fast you play) when you level solo. It would take a few days of regular playing to level to max level, whatever that maybe.

And even while you are not at max level, you would gain Paragon Experience parallel to that, which as stated above, will not give you any additional power, but rather access to cosmetics, so that you still have something to gain when you play with a max level char.

The amount of Paragon experience required for a level-up would be consistent on each level.

And then I also had introduced an attribute system and a passive skill system in which you can spend points into every time you get a level up till you reach max level.
I personally like playing through multiple times. I do not like the idea of a slider at all. Playing through the story should feel like an accomplishment. If you can come to a challenging boss - instead of having to learn and adapt and overcome by learning mechanics or changing some gear or fine tuning your build, you can just adjust the difficult downward and then bump it back up once you get past the difficult spot.

If you can make it a fairly long story mode, like 10-15 hours long, then maybe you don't need multiple play throughs. Maybe you still want to have a multiple play throughs but not normal-nightmare-hell style. You play through once, everything scales with your level... get to the end and you can do some farming if you want, do whatever kind of special end game activities there are. But maybe you get tired of that and want to do the story again but not on a new character. You can just repeat the story infinitely scaled up to the max level. In this case it isn't higher level gear or more drops but you get first boss kill drop rates again. You might also give an attribute point for each time you do this. Something like that.

I think enemy faction reputation is a good idea stolen from Grim Dawn. The more you play, the more side quests and bounties you do make the game harder without adding a difficulty level.
07/02/2019 12:54 PMPosted by UngivenFame
I personally like playing through multiple times. I do not like the idea of a slider at all. Playing through the story should feel like an accomplishment. If you can come to a challenging boss - instead of having to learn and adapt and overcome by learning mechanics or changing some gear or fine tuning your build, you can just adjust the difficult downward and then bump it back up once you get past the difficult spot.

In my opinion what you are suggesting (having to play through story mode without adjusting the difficulty in order to have a challenge) should be incentivized, but not enforced.

For example: If you play through the story without adjusting/lowering the difficulty, you will be rewarded with a bunch of extra loot from the last boss in story mode and you'll gain an achievement and cosmetics, etc.

People who do not want that still can play through the story mode and adjust the difficulty if they desire to, but if they do that, they will not get these additional rewards.
In the few months or weeks before RoS came out there was a patch that introduced the new difficulty system iirc, so technically I am correct with that, but yes, you are right, for the most part the Torment difficulty setting was used with RoS.

So when I have to be more precise, in the late days of classic and the early days of RoS, before all these massive multipliers were introduced, no one was even able to play Torment 5 or 6 and the vast majority of people did not even play on T4.

You are talking about the pre-RoS patch, that introduced some of the new gear. I recall having a Calamity on lvl 60, it was nice. I think T5 and 6 were doable at lvl 60.

I also recall having Cindercoat and Blackthorne on lvl 70, which was awesome, but it was nerfed shortly after through cooldown on Peparation, so that Marauder becomes BiS (Blizz were clearly sad, that players weren't using the sets)

However, I don't recall which Torment was the preference, but I don't think it was T6.
07/02/2019 11:43 AMPosted by clueso
In my personal opinion infinite Paragon should exist, but it should not give you any power, but rather it should give you 'points' so to speak with which you can unlock new cosmetics.

If I could have done the leveling system in D3, each level would take significantly longer so you would not just be at max level within 10 minutes when you get powerleveled or within 1-4 hours (depending on how fast you play) when you level solo. It would take a few days of regular playing to level to max level, whatever that maybe.

And even while you are not at max level, you would gain Paragon Experience parallel to that, which as stated above, will not give you any additional power, but rather access to cosmetics, so that you still have something to gain when you play with a max level char.

The amount of Paragon experience required for a level-up would be consistent on each level.

And then I also had introduced an attribute system and a passive skill system in which you can spend points into every time you get a level up till you reach max level.

This is something I can fully agree with. I hope they do something similar, but I doubt they will. In fact, I expect D4 to be so bad, that it will make D3 seem really good and solid in comparison.
What 6 features should D4 have?

#1 No nerfing XP from boss fights or chests or quests.

Diablo III beginning in first couple weeks began the horrible xp nerfs one by one from every boss, chest run, quest etc.

I can't stand seeing another Diablo iteration with xp nerf after nerf.

When you release the game leave the xp gain alone please.
07/01/2019 07:40 PMPosted by Orrion
First off, trading didn't stop people from needing to do that.

How many years does it take you to acquire a rare item in D2? I mean, for me the most expensive is usually Infinity and I managed to get one within several days.
Meanwhile, in D3 I don't have an ancient trifecta Compass Rose.


I'm sorry you haven't rolled trifecta on an Ancient Compass Rose, which is probably the most difficult item in the entire game to get a perfect roll on.

But you also don't need to get that roll to be effective.

07/01/2019 07:40 PMPosted by Orrion
Second, the solution to that is simply not making the exact item with exact rolls necessary.

While I agree with that, I get the sense, that you don't think trading belongs in Diablo... even though it did in the previous games.


Sort of. I don't think trading NEEDS to be in Diablo. The issue with open trading is that (most of the time) when it exists it becomes mandatory to utilize it - which in turn means keeping up with a fluctuating market and being an expert in all class/build combinations (something that shouldn't be necessary for playing).
07/02/2019 02:45 PMPosted by ElobaCarcen
You are talking about the pre-RoS patch, that introduced some of the new gear. I recall having a Calamity on lvl 60, it was nice. I think T5 and 6 were doable at lvl 60.

I also recall having Cindercoat and Blackthorne on lvl 70, which was awesome, but it was nerfed shortly after through cooldown on Peparation, so that Marauder becomes BiS (Blizz were clearly sad, that players weren't using the sets)

However, I don't recall which Torment was the preference, but I don't think it was T6.

Yes, the pre-RoS patch and till a few month after the release of RoS before they started inflating the multipliers on sets and legendaries. T6 was doable, but it too a very, very, very long time and in general involved several deaths. No one played it because it was just way to grindy.

Preference was T2 and T3 iirc, but hardly anyone got beyond that.

07/02/2019 02:45 PMPosted by ElobaCarcen
This is something I can fully agree with. I hope they do something similar, but I doubt they will. In fact, I expect D4 to be so bad, that it will make D3 seem really good and solid in comparison.

I am actually someone who believes they have learned from D3. I think it will be better than D3, but I am skeptical in regards to whether or not it will be as good as I could imagine it in my mind...
07/02/2019 02:49 PMPosted by Chetanji
What 6 features should D4 have?

#1 No nerfing XP from boss fights or chests or quests.

Diablo III beginning in first couple weeks began the horrible xp nerfs one by one from every boss, chest run, quest etc.

I can't stand seeing another Diablo iteration with xp nerf after nerf.

When you release the game leave the xp gain alone please.

"Never nerf, always buff" is one of the worst design philosophies you can have in regards to balance. That is what lead to sets giving damage multipliers from ~300% in the beginning to now being 15.000% or whatever.

Please do not promote this or we will see endless, insane and unnecessary powercreep without any having any balance in the end in Diablo 4 as well. Instead, advocate for balance, even if it means nerfing something.
07/02/2019 02:49 PMPosted by Chetanji
What 6 features should D4 have?

#1 No nerfing XP from boss fights or chests or quests.

Diablo III beginning in first couple weeks began the horrible xp nerfs one by one from every boss, chest run, quest etc.

I can't stand seeing another Diablo iteration with xp nerf after nerf.

When you release the game leave the xp gain alone please.


But you can stand a Diablo iteration where everyone farms a specific area for chests? Doesn't that seem a little stupid to you?
07/02/2019 02:49 PMPosted by Chetanji
What 6 features should D4 have?

#1 No nerfing XP from boss fights or chests or quests.

Diablo III beginning in first couple weeks began the horrible xp nerfs one by one from every boss, chest run, quest etc.

I can't stand seeing another Diablo iteration with xp nerf after nerf.

When you release the game leave the xp gain alone please.


Oh so the fastest way and most fun way to level in D4 should be opening up chests, fascinating. Then why not have it where your character never has to fight at all. Then the gear can be purely cosmetic like Clothing is in Secret World Legends. Then you won't need to worry about skills or anything else at all.

Sorry but I want the best way to level is by fighting the denizens of hell. Bashing skulls with a barb or frying them with a mage type of class.

07/02/2019 03:22 PMPosted by Orrion
Sort of. I don't think trading NEEDS to be in Diablo. The issue with open trading is that (most of the time) when it exists it becomes mandatory to utilize it - which in turn means keeping up with a fluctuating market and being an expert in all class/build combinations (something that shouldn't be necessary for playing).


If itemization is done right, where it is not all about sets like D3. Where you have multiple ways of gearing up your character, with plenty of different alternatives to the BiS setups. Where BiS isn't some 16K% difference in power to non BiS setups.

A system where you don't have to participate in trading to get really decent enough gear to do what you want with the build you are making.

Finding the best gear in the game should take some time to accomplish. It shouldn't be handed to you on a silver platter like this game does due to the way that the itemization and skills were designed.
1. better balancing alternatives for meta groups... i dont know why in d3 they never equilibrate the 4man alternative meta groups like wd/wiz dh/wizrgk/necrorgk.

2. less scaling of difficulty, why 16 levels of torment and others difficultys if you can jump t1 to t6 and t6 to t13 easily when you complete the set? bring back only normal, nightmare and hell diffiuclty, maybe a torment only.

3. dont make automatic looking for groups in public, do a room system like it have in diablo 2 again.

4. bring a system to sell/buy like Runescape exchange have, for me its the perfect system.

5. better improvements to reduce the area damage lag

6.better alternatives for maps in rifts too, in d3 we have only 2 or 3 good maps to break records, and they are so rare, fishing takes too much hours to break a record, they need to reduce the time to get good maps.
I play Most current ARPG, Grim dawn, PoE, Last Epoch, wolcen, and also Guild wars 2 recently .

One of the thing I think D3 does right while most Arpg failed is synergy. With exception of POE with decent Synergy like cast on channel, on hit, A procs B, most games have boring gears with many stats that just give numerical buff ( more life, more damage) with very little synergy or gameplay changing affix that encourages certain way to play ( like grouping enemies, cc etc)

I hope D4 continue to have gears with good leg powers and synergy.
07/02/2019 10:47 AMPosted by ShadowAegis
Example: WW spec.
High attack speed WW spec might look for some legendaries, hard to find rares, and one crafted rare.
Crit based version might be looking for a few set pieces some hard to find rares and blues.
A fire based spec might be looking for more crafted rares with possible some crafted blues with only one or two legendaries.


To talk about D3; I think rare items should be allowed to break 4/2 system when roll beyond item level 70 and roll more than one main stat that related to the classes (str, dex, int) with a chance to double stack same affixes in a 5/3 roll system to match the stat range of legendaries. Such items may be given as a reward from random merchants.
As for magical items I have no strong opinion but I believe if jewels were to return within' magical weapons and armor, sparing jewelry, allowed to be modified by Blacksmith for a secondary affix socket to have double sockets, they may see use.

Still, with the current system they can not beat legendary powers, so better if some skillrunes and passives offer synergies and benefits from certain secondary affixes to out-perform legendaries to diverse from the main builds.

What we gonna see in D4 would be a surprise because game developers generally laugh at any sort of early criticism and dismiss it. Anything we may perceive and sound as constructive criticism is "back-seat driving" for them.
I have only 3 wishes

1.Current D3 / DI developers should be put on other projects
2.rehire original team
3.suits should be kept out of design decisions

anything else would be just another clone that is allowed to carry the name.
07/04/2019 06:19 AMPosted by dukem
I have only 3 wishes

1.Current D3 / DI developers should be put on other projects
2.rehire original team
3.suits should be kept out of design decisions

anything else would be just another clone that is allowed to carry the name.


You want the original team, but you don't want a clone?

Kind of a skewed line of reasoning.

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