Vyr chantodo ... slow time time warp vs BH abs zero

General Discussion
So time warp gives 15% more dmg
And from what i read on another topic the one u cast b4 and the one u enter archon stacks additively giving 30% more dmg

İ guess that 30% is multiplicative

BH abs zero gives 3% per enemy hit for 10 sec. Which i guess is multiplicative as well

İ am not that high in grs so the density is average GR 100

İsnt slow time better in this case

But i see alot more using BH

İ got that when u go higher u drop teleport and get both ok

But which is better for 100-105 GRs and why
06/30/2019 12:32 PMPosted by Ponchik
İ guess that 30% is multiplicative


It's in the same category as other additive buffs/debuffs. But Vyr's builds typically run so few of those that it's essentially multiplicative. It's additive with Magic Weapon, plus possibly Cold Blooded or Unwavering Will.

It'll effectively be a 1.4/1.1=27% or 1.5/1.2=25% buff.

06/30/2019 12:32 PMPosted by Ponchik
BH abs zero gives 3% per enemy hit for 10 sec. Which i guess is multiplicative as well


It gives you cold elemental damage, same as cold% on gear. So it'll be on top of either 20% cold, or 40% cold if you have a good amulet.

A 20 enemy Absolute Zero pull on top of 40% cold from Bracers + amulet is a 2/1.4 = 43% damage increase.

There's also the uptime factor. Slow Time: Time Warp is a 30% buff for 15 sec, then a 15% buff for the remaining 5 sec or so in Archon. Black Hole: Absolute Zero is only a 10 sec buff.

06/30/2019 12:32 PMPosted by Ponchik
But which is better for 100-105 GRs and why


How fast are you clearing them? Around GR100 is where I usually swap. If you are crushing rifts in like 2 min, stuff isn't going to stay alive long enough for you to set up a decent 20+ enemy Black Hole pull. You also won't be standing still long enough to get the 30% from Time Warp, you'll basically just be getting 15% that follows you. But if you are only getting 5-10 enemy Black Hole pulls, I find the permanent 15% from Time Warp tends to work a little better. 15% all the time from Time Warp is better than 15-30% for 10 sec from Black Hole.

If you are clearing rifts in 3-5 minutes, you'll probably be able to get more like 15-20 enemy Black Hole pulls more consistently. And if you can get those pretty reliably, Black Hole is going to come out better.

My general rule of thumb is 2-3 min rifts I run Time Warp (or possibly Stretch Time). Over 3 min rifts I usually run Black Hole.
06/30/2019 12:32 PMPosted by Ponchik
But which is better for 100-105 GRs and why

Why not have both Slow Time and Black Hole? When I run Slow Time I replace teleport with it. It was more of a way to push half a tier ahead of what I'm capable of normally.

But in speeds I run Teleport with Aether Walker in cube. This is more for 90s and t16 but it probably works in 100s too. My thinking is you can skip a bunch of stragglers / bad desnity out of Archon with unlimted Teleport, then get your stacks before going into Archon when you get to the next Elite / Dense group. The downside is sometimes I'm low on Arcane Power when I want to get stacks, because Aether Walker causes Teleport to have no cooldown bust cost 25 AP.
06/30/2019 01:33 PMPosted by TinneOnnMuin
06/30/2019 12:32 PMPosted by Ponchik
İ guess that 30% is multiplicative


It's in the same category as other additive buffs/debuffs. But Vyr's builds typically run so few of those that it's essentially multiplicative. It's additive with Magic Weapon, plus possibly Cold Blooded or Unwavering Will.

It'll effectively be a 1.4/1.1=27% or 1.5/1.2=25% buff.

06/30/2019 12:32 PMPosted by Ponchik
BH abs zero gives 3% per enemy hit for 10 sec. Which i guess is multiplicative as well


Thx that was really helpful

Well atm i run 95 gr aroun 4-5 min
Or 90 around 3
(100 around 7 min for lvling gems)

İ find slow time also quite useful defensively to build up stacks and orotz outside of archon but was afraid i am losing too much damage not using BH instead...

İn my runs i would get around 10 stacks of BH entering archon so overall i think slow time is better for me as i guessed

Thx for the confirmation with the math

It gives you cold elemental damage, same as cold% on gear. So it'll be on top of either 20% cold, or 40% cold if you have a good amulet.

A 20 enemy Absolute Zero pull on top of 40% cold from Bracers + amulet is a 2/1.4 = 43% damage increase.

There's also the uptime factor. Slow Time: Time Warp is a 30% buff for 15 sec, then a 15% buff for the remaining 5 sec or so in Archon. Black Hole: Absolute Zero is only a 10 sec buff.

06/30/2019 12:32 PMPosted by Ponchik
But which is better for 100-105 GRs and why


How fast are you clearing them? Around GR100 is where I usually swap. If you are crushing rifts in like 2 min, stuff isn't going to stay alive long enough for you to set up a decent 20+ enemy Black Hole pull. You also won't be standing still long enough to get the 30% from Time Warp, you'll basically just be getting 15% that follows you. But if you are only getting 5-10 enemy Black Hole pulls, I find the permanent 15% from Time Warp tends to work a little better. 15% all the time from Time Warp is better than 15-30% for 10 sec from Black Hole.

If you are clearing rifts in 3-5 minutes, you'll probably be able to get more like 15-20 enemy Black Hole pulls more consistently. And if you can get those pretty reliably, Black Hole is going to come out better.

My general rule of thumb is 2-3 min rifts I run Time Warp (or possibly Stretch Time). Over 3 min rifts I usually run Black Hole.

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