Paragon cap in next Season

General Discussion
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I suggest Blizzard to set a certain limit or cap in Paragon level for the next or future season (around 2000 Paragon, and if it is too low or high, please suggest some good range).

If it is too fundemental or radical, it is also good to maintain this for only one season.

Although it is capped, players can still "save their exp" earned after the cap and "their exp will be applied to their non-seasonal account" after the season ends.

To motivate Seasonal players, Blizzard can double the drop rate of legendary items, the percentage of upgrading legendary gems, or the amount of bounty caches, etc.

Rationale:

Let me explain simply. There are two types of users who:

1) play 4p meta, nephalem rift, bounties by himself 2-3 hours everyday

2) play 4p meta, nephalem rift, bounties by himself 2-3 hours everyday and use "xxx-bot" for 9-10 hours while he is sleeping or working.

Most of huge Paragon junks at this point of season 17 (and before) are case (2) not (1). Although there are other factors (e.g., random generation of monsters, gear, caldessan, etc), if all other conditions are same, Paragon can make a difference as it strongly influences players' damage and toughness. The difference can affect players' maximum availability to achive a certain GR record.

My analysis: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qY0hoR0sgxcwLHSfPayjPfDTzyxV_x6o/view

If so, then, is it a fair competition? I am asking "do rankers purely locate themselves there "purely" by their skill and effort"?

That is why I am asking Blizzard to cap seasonal Paragon to around 2000 (if it is too low or high, please suggest some good range). It won't harm players' motivations if they can "save their exp earned after the cap" and their exp will be "applied to their non-seasonal account" after the season ends. To motivate Seasonal players, Blizzard can double the drop rate of legendary items, the percentage of upgrading legendary gems, or the amount of bounty caches, etc.
God you people baffle me. Capping character growth is not how you improve the hopeless monotony of this game.....

It's the half baked mindset that would actually encourage something so lame and flavorless, that created the flavorless seasons you are currently "enjoying"......
07/04/2019 04:50 AMPosted by Shurgosa
God you people baffle me. Capping character growth is not how you improve the hopeless monotony of this game.....

It's the half baked mindset that would actually encourage something so lame and flavorless, that created the flavorless seasons you are currently "enjoying"......
What I am saying is, making the situation more fair, and give motivation to other factors (e.g., items, gems, bounties, etc) instead of Paragon.

It won't harm players' growth if the extra exp gained after the capped point will be "saved" to their non-seasonal account. If the cap (Paragon 2000) is too low, then please suggest some good numbers.
Capping paragon makes no difference. Botters, rat runners, etc. only reach it quicker. All it ends up doing is hurting legit players who don't grind paragon.

Capping paragon has been suggested many times before and every time it's been shot down because it's such a frigging horrible idea.
07/04/2019 05:04 AMPosted by Kirottu
Capping paragon makes no difference. Botters, rat runners, etc. only reach it quicker. All it ends up doing is hurting legit players who don't grind paragon.
It will make a difference as the cap enables a fair competition on the leaderboard.

Optimization of items and skills will matter more if the Paragon is capped at a certain point.
So many games to play out there.

Why beat your head on a wall?
07/04/2019 05:08 AMPosted by SimpleDave
So many games to play out there.

Why beat your head on a wall?
Because I still love this game, and I wish this game can be more purified with xxx-bot.
07/04/2019 05:02 AMPosted by Fangskin
07/04/2019 04:50 AMPosted by Shurgosa
God you people baffle me. Capping character growth is not how you improve the hopeless monotony of this game.....

It's the half baked mindset that would actually encourage something so lame and flavorless, that created the flavorless seasons you are currently "enjoying"......
What I am saying is, making the situation more fair, and give motivation to other factors (e.g., items, gems, bounties, etc) instead of Paragon.

It won't harm players' growth if the extra exp gained after the capped point will be "saved" to their non-seasonal account. If the cap (Paragon 2000) is too low, then please suggest some good numbers.


its not about simply "not harming growth" and its not about suggesting the correct paragon number to apply or remove a cap to, anymore than it is about calculating the correct amount of thousands of damage percent to apply to a skill.

It's that type of disgusting thinking that has created this utter joke of a game, and the new one on the horizon that brought no improvements with it, and by all measures went backwards....
that's how far this game and this franchise has fallen.

Ideas pass a test the moment they don't harm growth. If you want to make growth interesting, which I would hope is the bloody idea especially for the devs, then as soon as you begin accepting or thinking about ideas that "don't harm" you have failed.

When you go to a nice restaurant, do you seek out matter that will provide nutrients? because thats the argument that is being produced here....
the devs cant just allow or disallow players to click or not click numbers, and their work is done, they have to be smart enough to make numbers interesting and fun to interact with, the same way people tend to enjoy food that tastes great.

D3 fans are partly excused for not meeting this insightful standard, but that honeymoon is LONG over.

99 times out of a hundred people will chime in trying to sound smart, saying ooooh D3 is so old, its too late to want improvements, the devs will never be allowed to overhaul the game and this and that....etc....

well that's a foolish argument, and it always has been, because by coddling that idiotic mindset that created mundane character growth, to any degree, and continually excusing it, "fans" will be able to enjoy a new watered down hopeless bone dry leveling grind in a brand new mobile game....
I don't know. Capping would be an interesting idea to field, even if only for one season.

But 2000? Hell, make it 800. BAM.

Lets see what separates skill from Paragon leeches. That should make for an interesting leaderboard next season.

Keep in mind, I'm not saying leave it that way, but for one season, what could it hurt really?

Oh well. Happy 4th!

Game on.
This argument regularly gets trotted out and it essentially comes down to a choice of two ideologies...

Equality of Outcomes (capped paragon)
Everyone ends up with the same, but this comes at the expense of limiting the opportunity of individuals that could have done better.

Equality of Opportunities (uncapped paragon)
Everyone starts off with the same, they're given the same opportunities as everyone else to compete, but this comes at the expense that there will be an inequality of outcomes.

Here's an analogy. Two competitors are going to run a 100 meter race...
In lane 1, we have Usain Bolt
In lane 2, we have a fat guy from the local pub

The people that favour equality of outcomes would tie a 100lb weight to Usain Bolt's ankle so that when the race happens both competitors finish at the same time.

The people that favour equality of opportunities would watch as Usain Bolt completely destroyed the time of the fat guy from the local pub.

I'd rather allow people that can do better, to do better, and not limit them so that people that should lose can keep up.
For one season I would greatly enjoy having a paragon cap of like 1500 or something of that nature. Something casuals would not hit, that limits the GR pushing to skill and pushing mechanics more than who has the most time to farm up paragon.

But they would need to have a unique theme that ties with why it is being capped, because that alone as a theme would drive the masses crazy!!!
07/04/2019 07:51 AMPosted by Meteorblade
Here's an analogy. Two competitors are going to run a 100 meter race...
In lane 1, we have Usain Bolt
In lane 2, we have a fat guy from the local pub

The people that favour equality of outcomes would tie a 100lb weight to Usain Bolt's ankle so that when the race happens both competitors finish at the same time.

The people that favour equality of opportunities would watch as Usain Bolt completely destroyed the time of the fat guy from the local pub.

I'd rather allow people that can do better, to do better, and not limit them so that people that should lose can keep up.
You analogy is not appropriate because cheater who "run xxx-bot" is not Usain Bolt, and the regular player who play legit is not a fat local boy. It is truly unfair for a regular player to compete with xxx-bot cheaters to compete on the leaderboard.

Regardless of whether the regular player run 4p meta group run, he cannot beat xxx-bot cheaters who can "operate" the game while they are sleeping and working.

If there is more than 10 hours of play time disparity and inequality per day between regular vs. cheaters, then capping Paragon to a certain limit can be a good solution.
@Meteorblade

Your analogy sucks.
Usain Bolt has a cap to how much he can train and how strong he can get physically, similar to gear ingame. When he competes, he starts at the same time, runs the same track, with the same outfit. He doesn't start off 1 second earlier than his competitors because he trained his whole life, which would be the equivalent of the paragonsystem. His advantage is in his running technique which he has perfected through years of training, SIMILAR TO INGAME SKILL. Not paragon points. Not even close. There is nothing ENDLESS about any actual competition in this world, except you know, the one in this game.
Stupid threads should be capped to 1 per week, globally.
07/04/2019 06:26 AMPosted by DTMAce
I don't know. Capping would be an interesting idea to field, even if only for one season.

But 2000? Hell, make it 800. BAM.

Lets see what separates skill from Paragon leeches. That should make for an interesting leaderboard next season.

Keep in mind, I'm not saying leave it that way, but for one season, what could it hurt really?

Oh well. Happy 4th!

Game on.
I think it will be good to test at least one season, then decide later. Just trying it for one season does not ruin everything. Thanks for your opinion.
07/04/2019 08:00 AMPosted by Demonmonger
For one season I would greatly enjoy having a paragon cap of like 1500 or something of that nature. Something casuals would not hit, that limits the GR pushing to skill and pushing mechanics more than who has the most time to farm up paragon.

But they would need to have a unique theme that ties with why it is being capped, because that alone as a theme would drive the masses crazy!!!
I agree with your idea. Developers need to create some new interesting motivators to enjoy seasonal play more fun. I suggest double drop, double percentage of gem upgrade, and double bounty caches. But there should be something more interesting motivator while capping Paragon.
Well... I kinda approve this, but if that sorta thing were to happen it shouldn't be limited to one season and it has no meaning when some elements are missing from the game.
Think about the dent you put on the possible non-season progress on the long run. A try-hard fan would squeeze over 4k every season and you just slowed down their NS plvl growth.

At the other hand though; as long as paragon level is hardcapped in seasons, developers would be free of coming some comically overpowered item tweaks as seasonal themes if you ask me.
Yet again, without developers set a right and proper notion about PvP where finding a common ground is important, I doubt paragon level cap would apply soon.

Things would've been funny. I donno, I'm not the expert but that paragon cap idea did thrown around alot. As a personal opinion it can happen, but it has no meaning when applied alone as other systems call for a change as well.
07/04/2019 08:03 AMPosted by Alecta
Usain Bolt has a cap to how much he can train and how strong he can get physically, similar to gear ingame. When he competes, he starts at the same time, runs the same track, with the same outfit. He doesn't start off 1 second earlier than his competitors because he trained his whole life, which would be the equivalent of the paragonsystem. His advantage is in his running technique which he has perfected through years of training, SIMILAR TO INGAME SKILL. Not paragon points. Not even close. There is nothing ENDLESS about any actual competition in this world, except you know, the one in this game.
I agree with your idea. There is a huge inequalities between xxx-bot users and the regular player, and this disables competition on the leaderboard. The "xxx-bot cheaters" are not Usain Bolt because they start the race 50m ahead and receive a well endowed human growth hormone and steroids.
07/04/2019 08:01 AMPosted by Fangskin
capping Paragon to a certain limit can be a good solution.

Anything that results in players that could have done better from being allowed to do better is not a solution.

Whatever arbitrary number you pick as the paragon level limit, any player that could have exceeded that is limited by that, just so that other players that couldn't have caught them up, can catch them up. You're limiting the best players just so worse players can feel better.

Not everyone's the same. Not everyone's as good as everyone else. There are supposed to be winners and losers in competitions. Stop asking for everyone to be given participation trophies.

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