Paragon cap in next Season

General Discussion
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07/04/2019 08:19 AMPosted by naksiloth
At the other hand though; as long as paragon level is hardcapped in seasons, developers would be free of coming some comically overpowered item tweaks as seasonal themes if you ask me.
I think, applying "Convention of Elements bonus" to seasonal character can be a good solution.
07/04/2019 08:41 AMPosted by Meteorblade
07/04/2019 08:01 AMPosted by Fangskin
capping Paragon to a certain limit can be a good solution.

Anything that results in players that could have done better from being allowed to do better is not a solution.

Whatever arbitrary number you pick as the paragon level limit, any player that could have exceeded that is limited by that, just so that other players that couldn't have caught them up, can catch them up. You're limiting the best players just so worse players can feel better.

Not everyone's the same. Not everyone's as good as everyone else. There are supposed to be winners and losers in competitions. Stop asking for everyone to be given participation trophies.
I am continuosly saying the most of "previleged" players (the one you said "good") is "xxx-bot" users. Are you "xxx-bot" users? If not, can you compete with those cheaters although there is 10 hours playtime disparity everyday?

Regardless of how the regular player efficiently lvl up, they can't catch the xxx-bot cheaters who can operate this game while they are sleeping and working.
I think 5000 paragon could be a good cap. Its take time but its not impossible. Current i think it is 10000,i dont know if it is possible to get nore than that.

By the way... When you discovery how sucks is to fish maps to break records you will understand why diablo 3 ranking doesnt mean much... Most of powerful paragon people i know in this game dont are in ranking because they dont have patient to spend more than 100 hours fishing a good map to break records.

People spend more than 1000 stones to achiev that. Its take more time thab you have, because you dont want to play more than 2 hours a day.

Even if you are the same paragon with the toppers you will not be able to get rank 1 because its demand more time, and as you say you dont feel human possible to play more than 3 or 4 hours a day....

Always will have people better than you... Its just a game.... And some people spend more than 10 hours a day.

In older seasons when i was unemployed i have played this all day... But nowadays i dont care about it too much, just play for fun and its ok man, every '' pro'' people of this game dont care too much about ranking... Believe me... I know a lot of people who have more than 6000 paragon... It simple doesnt mean nothing....
07/04/2019 08:03 AMPosted by Alecta
Usain Bolt has a cap to how much he can train and how strong he can get physically, similar to gear ingame.

I'm pretty sure that both Usain Bolt and the fat guy from the local pub both have the same amount of hours in a day to spend, i.e. they both have exactly the same opportunity to train. Usain took that opportunity, the fat guy didn't. The result is an inequality in the ability to run fast. Why do you consider that non-equal running ability to be unfair? Why would you penalise Usain for having dedicated more of his available time to becoming better than the fat guy?
And when you spend a lot of time to mount your perfect meta class... Some another patch surges and buff another equipments and make your character obsolete.... I have felt this many times in this game... And its very s. ucks after some time...
07/04/2019 08:50 AMPosted by Meteorblade
07/04/2019 08:03 AMPosted by Alecta
Usain Bolt has a cap to how much he can train and how strong he can get physically, similar to gear ingame.

I'm pretty sure that both Usain Bolt and the fat guy from the local pub both have the same amount of hours in a day to spend, i.e. they both have exactly the same opportunity to train. Usain took that opportunity, the fat guy didn't. The result is an inequality in the ability to run fast. Why do you consider that non-equal running ability to be unfair? Why would you penalise Usain for having dedicated more of his available time to becoming better than the fat guy?
Are you educated? How using "xxx-bot" can be one's ability? If there is a 10 hours playing time inequality between "xxx-bot" cheaters and the regular user, then how the regular user compete with them?
And after they cap paragon to whatever number you say and you still arent able to get ranked on the leaderboard becausd you dont play as much as the hardcore people, then what will you say?
07/04/2019 08:03 AMPosted by Alecta
@Meteorblade

Your analogy sucks.
Usain Bolt has a cap to how much he can train and how strong he can get physically, similar to gear ingame. When he competes, he starts at the same time, runs the same track, with the same outfit. He doesn't start off 1 second earlier than his competitors because he trained his whole life, which would be the equivalent of the paragonsystem. His advantage is in his running technique which he has perfected through years of training, SIMILAR TO INGAME SKILL. Not paragon points. Not even close. There is nothing ENDLESS about any actual competition in this world, except you know, the one in this game.


And your own explanation sucks even harder.

Everyone starts at the same point. Same tracks (same game), same outfit (same gear).

The only difference lies in what's between your ears and those who hit p500 within an hour or two of the season's start.

It's called making the most of the Strength in Numbers buff. People group up, hit lvl70 within 15 minutes (hypothetical number) and then they get getting.

Using Usain Bolt as an example is plain stupid, because he don't have a Challenge cache waiting for him at the start of the race lol, nor does he benefit from his fellow racers' group buffs.
I can see how frustrating it can be for someone who plays 2 hours a day vs someone that plays 12 hours a day to get on the leaderboard. I don't like the idea of a paragon cap since that is basically what this game is about when you have all the pieces of gear you need. A better idea would be to enable users to get on the leaderboard ONLY if all players use 3000 paragon points or less (adjust this amount as you like but 3000 paragon is achievable by end-of-season for all competitive players). Anyone who doesn't do this will not be able to get on it, but can continue to play gr's for xp/drops/gem upgrades/etc. like normal.

This wouldn't eliminate the problem of botters gaining an advantage. They always will have the advantage. It will allow players with higher knowledge of game mechanics to get on the leaderboard. So if you bot and have high understanding of game mechanics, you win.

Additionally, this would enforce getting max stats gear so the next complaint you might hear is that you need all primals to get on the leaderboard and only bounty bots can do that.

Alternatively, you can play zbarb. They only need about 800 paragon to do gr 150. Most competitive players are able to get paragon 800 by the end of the first weekend.
07/04/2019 08:58 AMPosted by Mlenk
And after they cap paragon to whatever number you say and you still arent able to get ranked on the leaderboard becausd you dont play as much as the hardcore people, then what will you say?
I am already ranked comparatively higher than my Paragon points. The players around my rank are "generally" having higher Paragon (and sometimes I don't augment-caldessan my gear at all).
07/04/2019 09:04 AMPosted by SteLitY
A better idea would be to enable users to get on the leaderboard ONLY if all players use 3000 paragon points or less (adjust this amount as you like but 3000 paragon is achievable by end-of-season for all competitive players).
Good idea, and it is literally the same to capping the Paragon to 3000 because the leaderboard only allows up to 3000 Paragon stats.
07/04/2019 08:19 AMPosted by naksiloth
Well... I kinda approve this, but if that sorta thing were to happen it shouldn't be limited to one season and it has no meaning when some elements are missing from the game.
Think about the dent you put on the possible non-season progress on the long run. A try-hard fan would squeeze over 4k every season and you just slowed down their NS plvl growth.

At the other hand though; as long as paragon level is hardcapped in seasons, developers would be free of coming some comically overpowered item tweaks as seasonal themes if you ask me.
Yet again, without developers set a right and proper notion about PvP where finding a common ground is important, I doubt paragon level cap would apply soon.

Things would've been funny. I donno, I'm not the expert but that paragon cap idea did thrown around alot. As a personal opinion it can happen, but it has no meaning when applied alone as other systems call for a change as well.


So, are you proposing maybe a permanent in season paragon cap of like 2,000 each season, but all xp keeps gathering and non-season has the 10,000 cap?

I would actually enjoy that quite a bit as well tbh. Anything to make the pushing and competition about skill rather than XP farming would be a good thing.
07/04/2019 09:04 AMPosted by SteLitY
A better idea would be to enable users to get on the leaderboard ONLY if all players use 3000 paragon points or less (adjust this amount as you like but 3000 paragon is achievable by end-of-season for all competitive players).


It is achievable, but it is not fun. Right now people farm XP for 95% of the season, and push for 5%.

Just does not seem like a good ratio.
07/04/2019 09:16 AMPosted by Demonmonger
07/04/2019 09:04 AMPosted by SteLitY
A better idea would be to enable users to get on the leaderboard ONLY if all players use 3000 paragon points or less (adjust this amount as you like but 3000 paragon is achievable by end-of-season for all competitive players).


It is achievable, but it is not fun. Right now people farm XP for 95% of the season, and push for 5%.

Just does not seem like a good ratio.


07/04/2019 09:16 AMPosted by Demonmonger
07/04/2019 09:04 AMPosted by SteLitY
A better idea would be to enable users to get on the leaderboard ONLY if all players use 3000 paragon points or less (adjust this amount as you like but 3000 paragon is achievable by end-of-season for all competitive players).


It is achievable, but it is not fun. Right now people farm XP for 95% of the season, and push for 5%.

Just does not seem like a good ratio.


As stated in the post, you can adjust the paragon cap as you like. 3000 is just a number i pulled out of my behind. If most players enjoy farming xp for 95% of the season, the cap can be raised, but I think the point of the cap is to allow people that only have time to play on weekends to get a shot at the leaderboard (else they'd stop playing?).

Also, remember that even with my suggested cap there is still a point in getting high paragons. EX: 150 caldesans.
07/04/2019 05:08 AMPosted by Fangskin
Optimization of items and skills will matter more if the Paragon is capped at a certain point.


Which the cheaters still have an advantage. They will hit p2k early, then bounty bot like crazy to get perfect gear. Top legit player will be running 2-4 perfectly rolled primals, cheaters will be running 10-13. This also does nothing to stop cheaters from running THUD and macros, so they will still have a significant advantage. Capping paragon will only cause top end legit players to stop their season early as they will not want to run bounties non-stop after hitting the 2k cap.
07/04/2019 09:16 AMPosted by Demonmonger
07/04/2019 09:04 AMPosted by SteLitY
A better idea would be to enable users to get on the leaderboard ONLY if all players use 3000 paragon points or less (adjust this amount as you like but 3000 paragon is achievable by end-of-season for all competitive players).


It is achievable, but it is not fun. Right now people farm XP for 95% of the season, and push for 5%.

Just does not seem like a good ratio.


I think its more because fishing is so boring... you need to spend more than 1000 stones just to find a good map... open and close, open and close, all day... thats the reason of most of top paragons dont spend time to get ranking in this game... playing speed meta or a little higher to up gems is more fun instead to try to break records because the maps RNG is su.cks.

also, pro players spend more time playing in 4man groups with their clans, because its works better and funnier to play too while talk in discord.
07/04/2019 09:31 AMPosted by Alexismad
07/04/2019 05:08 AMPosted by Fangskin
Optimization of items and skills will matter more if the Paragon is capped at a certain point.


Which the cheaters still have an advantage. They will hit p2k early, then bounty bot like crazy to get perfect gear. Top legit player will be running 2-4 perfectly rolled primals, cheaters will be running 10-13. This also does nothing to stop cheaters from running THUD and macros, so they will still have a significant advantage. Capping paragon will only cause top end legit players to stop their season early as they will not want to run bounties non-stop after hitting the 2k cap.
Currently, xxx-bot helps both Paragon and Farming. If there is a cap in Paragon lvl, xxx-bot cannot contribute well on Paragon. Therefore, capping Paragon can diminish the unfair gap between the regulars and the cheaters.
Rather than limit paragon, I'd rather see the availability of a filter on the Leaderboards, e.g. you could look at Solo Barbarian with 0-500 paragon, Solo Barbarian with 0-1000 paragon, and so on. That way, you don't limit the players who can, and should be allowed to, push higher but it lets you see what people with similar paragon levels to yours have managed to do.
07/04/2019 09:48 AMPosted by Meteorblade
Rather than limit paragon, I'd rather see the availability of a filter on the Leaderboards, e.g. you could look at Solo Barbarian with 0-500 paragon, Solo Barbarian with 0-1000 paragon, and so on. That way, you don't limit the players who can, and should be allowed to, push higher but it lets you see what people with similar paragon levels to yours have managed to do.
It does not limit players' effort as the extra exp gained after the capped paragon will be saved for the non-seasonal account.

You said "Paragon does not limit GR push" in the previous discussion then why are you so sensitive for capping 2-3000 Paragon for only 1 season period?

You said "Paragon is not everything" in the previous discussion, then why capping Paragon to 2-3000 will prevent a "skilled" player to reach the high rank on the leaderboard?
07/04/2019 08:50 AMPosted by Meteorblade
07/04/2019 08:03 AMPosted by Alecta
Usain Bolt has a cap to how much he can train and how strong he can get physically, similar to gear ingame.

I'm pretty sure that both Usain Bolt and the fat guy from the local pub both have the same amount of hours in a day to spend, i.e. they both have exactly the same opportunity to train. Usain took that opportunity, the fat guy didn't. The result is an inequality in the ability to run fast. Why do you consider that non-equal running ability to be unfair? Why would you penalise Usain for having dedicated more of his available time to becoming better than the fat guy?


There is a cap to how much time they can spend and to how much results they can get. If a sprinter ten years from now becomes the next star, he can actually compete with the best and maybe even make an attempt at Usain Bolts record. He can be 19 years old and compete with the 30 year olds for the shot at being the best. Is it unfair to the 30y/o that this young guy that has spent so much less total raw time can suddenly beat them? Obviously not. Only in the minds of the deranged should raw time spent give an extra advantage in any form of competition.

What the paragonsystem is competitionwise is a barrier to entry and serves only as discouragement. Nothing else.
It doesn't belong in any competitive environment, and quite frankly it doesn't even exist in any decent game. I get that this game is not meant to be a competitive one, that is also why the leaderboards are a joke. But the problem is that this system also promotes unhealthy gameplay and turns away the focus from looting to expgrinding. So even if you disregard the competitive aspect of this game (as Blizzard have) then it's still trash. Even if you go down the route of seasons, the expgrind will still be the focus.
There are about a million better endgame alternatives than a mindless hamsterwheel, Blizzard just happened to choose the worst because it takes the least amount of effort.

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