Paragon cap in next Season

General Discussion
07/04/2019 09:13 AMPosted by Demonmonger
So, are you proposing maybe a permanent in season paragon cap of like 2,000 each season,


Too low, I'm thinking more like 4k-5k but again, stricting that on just one season is stupid. If it were to be capped, then different seasons must have varying hardcaps for paragon levels. Even then, who decides what's a fair limit and what's not?

If such trend to set in, I propose a high paragon cap with something ridiculous or over-powered, may be even both, shall apply as season theme. Again, this would hardly achieve anything other than allowing players to find an equal ground in some competition which is rather pointless. Also if applied wrong, build diversity would be outta window for leaderboards.

Every element is tied to each other. For capping player progress you have to have a really good excuse for it.
As long as game stays PvE oriented it hardly matters on a grand scale to apply such limitations. If you want a reason to add plvl cap, developers should look into repairing PvP scene properly. Otherwise, forget it. Paragon levels are the competition itself now, because design and development can't think of a better way.
Why stop at paragon?

Let's level the real playing field.

Same gear

Same grift - layout mobs pylons RG etc

Oh wait we have this already - challenge rifts anyone?

BTW, we should also try to balance the game around the other cheats not just bots.
Let's integrate turbohud complete and stick in a complex macro maker.

How much redesign do you want to do to a game because of botting before you mess it up and whole spirit and goal of it in the first place.

Paragon 1.0 had a cap of 100 paragon for every class once people were done - accounts laid fallow except for maybe gear hunt.

Now the gear hunt is short circuited, what do the players have if they don't care about leaderboards?
Limit paragon level
True is that it would be a delay. Chains. Limits....
Brake. Expiration...
It would be like going back to black and white tv
Cultural stop retreat
Slavery. Inquisition...
Leave livertad. Be freee
Be happy. Smail
Play by playing
Play for You
Play for vice
Play for what you like
Free without goals without brakes
Lets others develop
Do not compete so much

If you do not mind.of course
07/04/2019 11:08 AMPosted by Phatty
Why stop at paragon?

Let's level the real playing field.

Same gear

Same grift - layout mobs pylons RG etc

Oh wait we have this already - challenge rifts anyone?

BTW, we should also try to balance the game around the other cheats not just bots.
Let's integrate turbohud complete and stick in a complex macro maker.

How much redesign do you want to do to a game because of botting before you mess it up and whole spirit and goal of it in the first place.

Paragon 1.0 had a cap of 100 paragon for every class once people were done - accounts laid fallow except for maybe gear hunt.

Now the gear hunt is short circuited, what do the players have if they don't care about leaderboards?
You said "Paragon does not limit GR push" in the previous discussion then why are you so sensitive for capping 2-3000 Paragon for only 1 season period?

You said "Paragon is not everything" in the previous discussion, then why capping Paragon to 2-3000 will prevent a "skilled" player to reach the high rank on the leaderboard?

What is the difference to clear 125 GR with Paragon 2500 and 130 GR with Paragon 5000? All that matter is "ranking" not the number itself. As you said "you are skilled veteran", regardless of Paragon limit, you will beat others in the leaderboard, then why is it that problem?

Moreover, the extra exp gained after the Paragon limit will be granted for the non-seasonal account. It does not harm your effort (although it seems like you are 99% xxx-bot cheaters).

And yes, like you said, not only "xxx-bot", "turbohud" and "macro" should also be banned. But before talking about turbohud and macro, it is better for you play legit for yourself first.
Posted by Meteorblade
Rather than limit paragon, I'd rather see the availability of a filter on the Leaderboards,


Leaderboard filters would be ok. In combat sports, the concept of weight classes has long been accepted as a way to normalize for inherent differences that could cause an unfair advantage. Indeed, weight classes are what makes possible the endless debate of who is the GOAT fighter, because Manny Pacquiao vs Muhammad Ali in single-combat is not a fair fight. I realize the analogy is imperfect due to PvP being different than PvE, but I think the logic of weight classes has some bearing, and leaderboard filters could make some of the GOAT arguments more interesting.

At the end of the day it's kind of silly because it's just a vanity thing. Also, you can already do this yourself using an API to download leaderboard data, calculate a "Character Power Level" that accounts for GR tier vs main stat, and sort.
So if someo0ne bots 100 plus hours a week they would get so much gear and mats the paragon cap wouldn't matter as they would have all primal gear with good roles on them.Maybe if you don\t worry about the leader boards you will have more fun.
At end of the day who really cares without looking it up could you name the people who where top of the boards in say season 12
07/04/2019 01:04 PMPosted by hawkkiwi
So if someo0ne bots 100 plus hours a week they would get so much gear and mats the paragon cap wouldn't matter as they would have all primal gear with good roles on them.Maybe if you don\t worry about the leader boards you will have more fun.
At end of the day who really cares without looking it up could you name the people who where top of the boards in say season 12
Whether the leaderboard is important or not depends on person-to-person. What I suggest is to make the competition more "fair and legit". Why is it bad to create a healthy competition environment?
07/04/2019 09:48 AMPosted by Meteorblade
Rather than limit paragon, I'd rather see the availability of a filter on the Leaderboards, e.g. you could look at Solo Barbarian with 0-500 paragon, Solo Barbarian with 0-1000 paragon, and so on. That way, you don't limit the players who can, and should be allowed to, push higher but it lets you see what people with similar paragon levels to yours have managed to do.


Could work, but then I think you need the capability to lock xp gains so that if you want to compete in the 500 and under tier for instance, you can without worry of over-leveling it.

I think doing a hard cap is the easiest thing to do.
Fangskin,

That's my point.

Paragon isn't everything.

The rng is much more of a factor.

If you truly want to normalize according to skill, you take out the variables and make them constants.

That the rng of rifts, paragon disparity, gear disparity, cheat disparity.

Consistency of purpose and goal orientated descision making.

What is your goal? To have an even playing field. How do you do it? You don't stop at paragon.

What's your root cause analysis of what you are trying to fix design for?

Trying to limt bots influence?

Is it fair for someone who plays 16 hours to directly compete (if we even call it that) with someone that does 2 hours?
Diablo 2 didnt have paragon, I just hope D4 scraps it altogether
07/04/2019 10:17 AMPosted by Fangskin
It does not limit players' effort as the extra exp gained after the capped paragon will be saved for the non-seasonal account.

So, once you've reached the seasonal paragon cap, why wouldn't you just go back to non-seasonal and wait for the seasonal XP to happen a couple of months later?
07/04/2019 02:24 PMPosted by Phatty
Fangskin,

That's my point.

Paragon isn't everything.

The rng is much more of a factor.

If you truly want to normalize according to skill, you take out the variables and make them constants.

That the rng of rifts, paragon disparity, gear disparity, cheat disparity.

Consistency of purpose and goal orientated descision making.

What is your goal? To have an even playing field. How do you do it? You don't stop at paragon.

What's your root cause analysis of what you are trying to fix design for?

Trying to limt bots influence?

Is it fair for someone who plays 16 hours to directly compete (if we even call it that) with someone that does 2 hours?
I already answered most of your questions in the main discussion and below link. So, I won't repeat those again.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/d3/topic/20772567061?page=3#post-44
07/04/2019 02:56 PMPosted by Meteorblade
07/04/2019 10:17 AMPosted by Fangskin
It does not limit players' effort as the extra exp gained after the capped paragon will be saved for the non-seasonal account.

So, once you've reached the seasonal paragon cap, why wouldn't you just go back to non-seasonal and wait for the seasonal XP to happen a couple of months later?
You'd better to read the main discussion carefully as I already answered your question before. There are some motivators such as doubling drops, gem upgrade %, or bounty caches. And maybe there should be some "more interesting ideas" to motivate seasonal players rather than what I suggested. Generating interesting ideas will belong to both players and developers.
07/04/2019 02:58 PMPosted by Fangskin
07/04/2019 02:24 PMPosted by Phatty
Fangskin,

That's my point.

Paragon isn't everything.

The rng is much more of a factor.

If you truly want to normalize according to skill, you take out the variables and make them constants.

That the rng of rifts, paragon disparity, gear disparity, cheat disparity.

Consistency of purpose and goal orientated descision making.

What is your goal? To have an even playing field. How do you do it? You don't stop at paragon.

What's your root cause analysis of what you are trying to fix design for?

Trying to limt bots influence?

Is it fair for someone who plays 16 hours to directly compete (if we even call it that) with someone that does 2 hours?
I already answered most of your questions in the main discussion and below link. So, I won't repeat those again.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/d3/topic/20772567061?page=3#post-44


Then capping paragon makes no sense since it's bot driven design change.

Thanks

BTW - stop calling me a xxx-bot cheater - have you looked at my profile?

07/04/2019 12:12 PMPosted by Fangskin
Moreover, the extra exp gained after the Paragon limit will be granted for the non-seasonal account. It does not harm your effort (although it seems like you are 99% xxx-bot cheaters).
07/04/2019 12:58 PMPosted by Fangskin
My logic is applied here. You are definitely a bald, ugly, uneducated, and illogical baby who can only attack others argument without any specific rationale.

Claiming to use logic whilst making ad hominem attacks...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
    Ad hominem (Latin for "to the person"), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby genuine discussion of the topic at hand is avoided by instead attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.
Another "I don't grind, so let's cap everyone's para at what I usually get" thread.

There are lots, and lots of people who have obtain 3k+ para in season w/o using bots, gps or other cheats. Yes, they run META 4P runs and spend a lot of time farming para and loot. You also have that opportunity but instead of doing so you wish to limit what others do.

You know the funny thing is, the better players will continue to be the better players. A lot of the players who spend hours farming para, are also the ones spending hours theory crafting builds and working out the most efficient means of getting their goals accomplished.

That being said, it was probably a bad idea to allow exp sharing between classes. A lot of this complaining about para would be moot if you only gained exp for the class you were playing.

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