Paragon cap in next Season

General Discussion
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DTMace,

there is so much RNG in the game.

If you don't remove the major RNG players, what's the point of the paragon cap.

This is why challenge rifts are the purest form of competition in the game that we have right now.

This is why I refer to it.
Honestly, it helps to know to whom you are referring


No quoting usually refers to OP mate.
well... if ya'll all want to remove the xp grind then i propose we should probably remove the loot grind as well every item 100% primal chance.

there now its a even playing field same level toons with same gear...

oh !@#$ wait now people are complaining about gem levels... i guess we should standardize all gem levels too. so every body has same level of gems.. ahhh yes thats sounds so much more fair.

oh god dammit, now people complain about rng of the maps.

well... i guess we should just make every map a festering with summoner trash... ahh perfect!! now everybody can get along and agree the game is great and fair. Hell just look were all getting the same maps even... what could be better then this...

shall i continue?
07/04/2019 03:42 PMPosted by Demonmonger
Maybe it keeps going but is capped at 10k like they stated?


Nope. People went over 10k. Only thing capped early was experience that is required to level up and that was way before that point.
07/04/2019 08:01 AMPosted by Fangskin
07/04/2019 07:51 AMPosted by Meteorblade
Here's an analogy. Two competitors are going to run a 100 meter race...
In lane 1, we have Usain Bolt
In lane 2, we have a fat guy from the local pub

The people that favour equality of outcomes would tie a 100lb weight to Usain Bolt's ankle so that when the race happens both competitors finish at the same time.

The people that favour equality of opportunities would watch as Usain Bolt completely destroyed the time of the fat guy from the local pub.

I'd rather allow people that can do better, to do better, and not limit them so that people that should lose can keep up.
You analogy is not appropriate because cheater who "run xxx-bot" is not Usain Bolt, and the regular player who play legit is not a fat local boy. It is truly unfair for a regular player to compete with xxx-bot cheaters to compete on the leaderboard.

Regardless of whether the regular player run 4p meta group run, he cannot beat xxx-bot cheaters who can "operate" the game while they are sleeping and working.

If there is more than 10 hours of play time disparity and inequality per day between regular vs. cheaters, then capping Paragon to a certain limit can be a good solution.

exactly the analogy should be 2 local pub guys but one of them is using owerful steroids to imrove his race
07/04/2019 11:30 PMPosted by naksiloth
07/04/2019 03:42 PMPosted by Demonmonger
Maybe it keeps going but is capped at 10k like they stated?


Nope. People went over 10k. Only thing capped early was experience that is required to level up and that was way before that point.

Who's over 10k. The game was hacked a long time ago where someone got to 10k paragon and they could not level anymore.

And your wrong for the TNL cap as well, it continues to increase and is not capped,

Para / Total XP / To Level / Increase in To Level
9996 16,510,727,000,292,000 5,039,900,376,000 1,019,694,000
9997 16,515,766,900,668,000 5,040,920,172,000 1,019,796,000
9998 16,520,807,820,840,000 5,041,940,070,000 1,019,898,000
9999 16,525,849,760,910,000 5,042,960,070,000 1,020,000,000
10000 16,530,892,720,980,000


Capping paragon at 800/2000 has been suggested in the past multiple times and multiple times its been stated that the only thing is hurts is legitimate players. Sure you cap paragons but bots will still gear up faster, get max level gems and augments (which by the way is equal to nearly 2000 paragon on its own). The only thing a paragon cap does is hurt the non-bot players. Its not going to magically make the leaderboards more competitive. There really will be no change to the top end of the boards.
07/05/2019 04:57 AMPosted by Dragonmaster
Who's over 10k.

EU, 3-man, Non-Seasonal, Softcore.
The Wizard in the Rank 1 team had 10,281 paragon at the time the ranking was obtained. They currently have 10,680 paragon.
07/05/2019 05:29 AMPosted by Meteorblade
07/05/2019 04:57 AMPosted by Dragonmaster
Who's over 10k.

EU, 3-man, Non-Seasonal, Softcore.
The Wizard in the Rank 1 team had 10,281 paragon at the time the ranking was obtained. They currently have 10,680 paragon.


Well dang, wonder when they increased the cap now as there was plenty of datamined info about the 10k prior cap (including the entire XP table up to 10k)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1MIVWYG18yayYU52xFPIH2iT-N_Yap3_UoQh_ZSHndlY/edit#gid=0
07/05/2019 05:29 AMPosted by Meteorblade
07/05/2019 04:57 AMPosted by Dragonmaster
Who's over 10k.

EU, 3-man, Non-Seasonal, Softcore.
The Wizard in the Rank 1 team had 10,281 paragon at the time the ranking was obtained. They currently have 10,680 paragon.


Thats insane, i thought 10000 was the limit.
07/05/2019 04:57 AMPosted by Dragonmaster
Who's over 10k.


There are people at EU and US, reached over 10k. I have no idea about consoles.

1,019,898,000
1,020,000,000


That's still a softcap, you know? 102k difference is about a single bounty quest reward at T13, not even T16.
07/05/2019 04:57 AMPosted by Dragonmaster

Capping paragon at 800/2000 has been suggested in the past multiple times and multiple times its been stated that the only thing is hurts is legitimate players. Sure you cap paragons but bots will still gear up faster, get max level gems and augments (which by the way is equal to nearly 2000 paragon on its own). The only thing a paragon cap does is hurt the non-bot players. Its not going to magically make the leaderboards more competitive. There really will be no change to the top end of the boards.


Quoted for the truth.

The whole premise of OP was about 2 type of players =

botters and non botters.

He equates anyone with high paragon a botter, where in fact there are legitimate players with high paragon.
Even more extreme, if you capped it at 0 paragon, disallowed gems, etc, it STILL wouldn't change the top of the boards that much and again you only hurt legitimate players. As I stated, bots just let you gear up faster. And if the bots are geared faster they will claim the spots first and a tie in time goes to the first to clear. So again it changes nothing.
A cap on anything just does nothing if your trying to use it to combat the bots as its a terrible way to do so. And with caps, there will be a point where you get nothing out of playing the game. At least with paragon, while its a flawed system in general, if you get on for a few hours you can say you gained some form of power in your character.
But capping paragon for the sake of combating the bots and allowing you to get onto the leaderboard is a horrible idea and has been discussed to death over the last several years on why it is so.
07/05/2019 08:52 AMPosted by Phatty
07/05/2019 04:57 AMPosted by Dragonmaster

Capping paragon at 800/2000 has been suggested in the past multiple times and multiple times its been stated that the only thing is hurts is legitimate players. Sure you cap paragons but bots will still gear up faster, get max level gems and augments (which by the way is equal to nearly 2000 paragon on its own). The only thing a paragon cap does is hurt the non-bot players. Its not going to magically make the leaderboards more competitive. There really will be no change to the top end of the boards.


Quoted for the truth.

The whole premise of OP was about 2 type of players =

botters and non botters.

He equates anyone with high paragon a botter, where in fact there are legitimate players with high paragon.


People can talk about the premise of the OP all they want, but the conversation evolved.

Again, if capping the paragon, another system needs to come with it. Maybe we are talking Unicorns here, but having the paragon system be +5 main stat driven and then also having Caldesan's be +5 main stat driven is bad game design.

Capping the paragon needs to come with a system that rewards the player in fun unique ways. +5 main stat progression is easily the most boring and drab form of progression, if we even want to call it progression, because there is no choice that comes with it!
Well ya the paragon system bonuses are pretty crappy as an AA system. There was FAR more potential with it that could of diversified it quite a bit even if paragon is "basically" infinte. There's so many more "stat" types that could of been used, the 50 point cap on everything could of been removed in lieu of diminishing returns on more points in a single stat.
But even this has been discussed to death and its extremely unlikely anything will change with the current paragon system with the game being in the classic games department and major content wont be happening anymore with dev on the next games.
Shrug, we could just get rid of leaderboards altogether.

It's a sham competition anyway since the RNG outstrips paragon itself most of the time.

There's a reason why people have to fish for the right Grift and with a 1 to 2% chance of getting the right Grift set up, what are we really measuring? Luck?

The way I see it is that there are people who feel entitled to be on the board for the same reason why people get participation trophies. People are jealous or envious of other peoples time to play this game and feel it's unfair to them and some reason should be able to just dive in and compete.

I don't agree with that mentality.

The game design of leaderboards and competition was not a core concept of D3. It was added in much much later. When you have a game that is RNG dependent and the only way to mitigate that is time played to average out the RNG, what do you expect?

Are you planning on overhauling this game in year 7 near maintenance mode?
07/05/2019 10:54 AMPosted by Phatty
The game design of leaderboards and competition was not a core concept of D3. It was added in much much later.


Because developers had no ideals on what to do with this game. Along the seven years we were tested because they turned their sight on the east market by forgetting us. It's only natural some voices will be louder from now on.

07/05/2019 10:27 AMPosted by Demonmonger
Again, if capping the paragon, another system needs to come with it.


At least developers trying to balance PvP would be a good excuse to cap it. Else curbing power growth with difficulty overhaul on standard difficulties are appreciated as well.
There's a balance about risk-reward and inbetween there's learning the ropes.
I suppose seeing this list should hurt the eyes
and a lot
I suppose.....
and I say this because they do not use boots, they are paragon levels of playing for real.
what others can not and want to limit with the cheap excuse of their inquisitorial ideology and without time.
do not criticize if you do not arrive, devote to yours, that for Diablo there are thousands better than you
you will never arrive and you are envious
we forgive you, but limiting is a bad remedy to your envy

play for you
for others let us look at these lists where luckily you will never be
good luck champion
you have no chance, but you have my sympathy (Alien)

http://www.diablo3ladder.com/index.php?action=p1000&orderby2=exp_sc_main&action2=total#toparagon
There are other groups than the ones that you mentioned. Because if those were the only groups then no one would be soloing at all. Everyone would play multiplayer and all of them including you would be at least around 3k to 4k paragon if true. I am basing it on those that would've been here since the addition of paragon 2.0 along with playing all seasons without missing a season.

Further you don't account for those that play the most efficient way possible. Which doing bounties solo isn't very efficient. The most efficient way to do bounties is 4 man split bounties.

Further you math is off concerning the amount of damage that the person with the higher paragon can take. If it were true then those that would have around 6k paragon wouldn't get one shotted in GR120+, which they no doubt do.

Paragon capping won't help and wouldn't discourage botting enough to make it worthwhile

Finally there are those that play the meta and play enough hours a day in the most efficient way possible that can get thousands of paragon levels faster than what you would think possible without botting. Like I said in your other thread. Stop complaining about not be able to achieve something solo that others do playing multiplayer. Just take one season and join a clan or community that you know doesn't have players that bot. Ones that you know would play the most efficient way possible. Then play with them and use whatever meta build is needed. Then when you have done all of that and gotten as much paragon as possible. Then you will see that your idea is off by many orders of magnitude.

For the longest time I thought that unlocking stash space couldn't be done under 40 hours in a season. But I have recently done that with the last tab at 37.5 hours on my monk. Now I only play D3 for the challenge rift. I will probably play at least the next two seasons to get gear for both my wizard and barb. Only going as far as chapter four. That is unless Blizz plays stashgate yet again.

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