"Treasure hunter" builds and their MP impact.

General Discussion
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Also, the skills quoted only gave players an increased chance to drop items, not an increased chance to drop magic items.

Though I understand that getting more items = better cgance to get a magic item.

This is again where your argument falls apart. Where are you getting this "significantly" from? How do you know that if I put 300% mf on, I'm going to do (as an example number) half the damage of someone who has 0% mf?

Unless they drastically change the tradeoffs in D3, then GOOD MF gear will barely hinder your damage. The tradeoff was typically more in survivability than it was in damage. Bad gear is bad gear, mf stat or no. If you're trying to argue with me that players with bad gear are holding your pubs back, I'm going to say "no !@#$, their gear sucks".

But seriously, where are these conceptions of "a player wearing mf gear does terrible damage" coming from?


Uh...we're getting them from blue quotes, FYI. Blue quotes about MF aren't so plentiful, but the ones we have indicate a desire to either balance MF such that it's a SIGNIFICANT power-tradeoff so that it's an interesting choice again, rather than just forcing everyone to use the same set of a few uniques that offer good stats + magic find, or a desire to balance MF such that there is NO tradeoff at all, by not allowing it to replace combat-related affixes, and being just a 'bonus' stat that can only take the place of a non-combat affix.

So yes, they ARE drastically changing the tradeoffs in D3. We just dont' know how yet.
doesnt bother me in the slightest.. think about it. if im playing with a buddy and he builds his character around treasure hunting then its more likely he'll find something that you can wear.

I agree that you shouldn't be required to build all magic find on your champion to have a ok chance at finding rare items. Nobody wants to play a game when you have to slay monsters for days just to find one rare.
"Additional Treasure" Translates to more items only, not a higher rarity.

Though it's obvious that having more items drop will give the player more chances for rare items to drop.

Also, it says "on critical Strike" for most of the abilities, which means that damage output is still important.

The point is that people who 'leech' in a group of more powerful characters shouldn't be rewarded unduly while the people carrying the MF-stacker receive nothing for their trouble.


How is this the fault of the magic find stat? If you let a player "leech" in your game, that is your decision to allow it to happen. Blizzard cannot be responsible for trying to make every player play "fair" and "equitable" and all that nonsense. And there is certainly no way to design a game that forces that to happen.

Why are the people that are being "leeched" off of not wearing MF gear themselves? Seriously. Why? This is the most baffling part of this entire debate to me. Why in this fantasy world that we're debating about, are all public games full of 3 players that wear NO MF? And why are all of these people incapable of saying to this guy "you can't party with us get out"?

If you want to argue for a vote-kick feature, sure please argue for that. I don't want to play with terrible players any more than you do. But please for the love of god stop with this ridiculous focus on the MF stat. Leeching can be done without wearing MF.

How is this the fault of the magic find stat? If you let a player "leech" in your game, that is your decision to allow it to happen. Blizzard cannot be responsible for trying to make every player play "fair" and "equitable" and all that nonsense. And there is certainly no way to design a game that forces that to happen.


The magic find stat, as currently implemented, ENCOURAGES this sort of behavior pretty hard. And it wouldn't be difficult to design a system that is more fair and equitable in at least this sense.

In a system like this, I guarantee that there WILL be a problem with people with high MF stats and low character power going around in the public games, unapologetically hopping from game to game, as they get kicked for sucking, and just raking in the drops. Like you said...there's no way for Blizzard to force people to play nice. So this WILL happen.


Why are the people that are being "leeched" off of not wearing MF gear themselves? Seriously. Why? This is the most baffling part of this entire debate to me. Why in this fantasy world that we're debating about, are all public games full of 3 players that wear NO MF? And why are all of these people incapable of saying to this guy "you can't party with us get out"?


Considering the fact that MF in the higher-end of D3 is likely to be a large trade-off, then that's the reason why they might not be wearing MF gear themselves. Or maybe they like to kill things faster, and believe that the MF <-> Killing Speed tradeoff favors the Killing Speed side, considering that bosses are no longer the be-all and end-all of item farming anymore, like they were in D2. Who knows?

But yes, they could kick the guy out...but why should they have to bother? Why not just design a system that just entirely removes this incentive for MF-leeching, like normalizing MF across the group, or not making MF involve a real tradeoff between killing power. Or one of many other suggestions that would work. None of them would be that difficult to do. We're not pushing for a huge redesign that would take weeks. Many of these things could be done with a small patch, or a trivial redesign of certain item generation rules.


If you want to argue for a vote-kick feature, sure please argue for that. I don't want to play with terrible players any more than you do. But please for the love of god stop with this ridiculous focus on the MF stat. Leeching can be done without wearing MF.


Sure it can, but the point is that the MF stat as currently implemented gives people a large incentive to leech.
thanks for sharing some of the rune effects. these are much needed insight to the rune system that we previously never had.
Be a man, play Hardcore, where people use real gear just to get thru the day, like Bear Grylls.
My solution to this problem? Treasure Hunters group and play the game and the people looking to explore the game pair yourselves together. In effect i'm saying find like minded groups, because if you do there is a good chance you will enjoy the game more.

M2C
09/11/2011 01:56 PMPosted by Criminal
I think one solution would be to allow players to look at what the party members are wearing similar to WoW. That way you are making an informed choice as to whether or not you are partied with a MF character.

They have a feature like that in the F&F beta where you can see their gear and even what skills they have equipped
Hey noobs. I have logged in to provide you the answer to your problems.

The magic find chance should be based off who gets the kill. So if you wear full MF gear in a MP game most likely you wont be killing most of the mobs so your MF stat wont be the one affecting the drops. This will force people to balance MF and their killing power.

/thread
Did you actually read the build you quoted? It's focused on crit + magicfind, explain to me how a high crit percentage build is gimping out on damage output please.
09/11/2011 07:18 PMPosted by WWWWWWWWWORP
I agree that you shouldn't be required to build all magic find on your champion to have a ok chance at finding rare items. Nobody wants to play a game when you have to slay monsters for days just to find one rare.


have you ever played diablo?
The magic find chance should be based off who gets the kill. So if you wear full MF gear in a MP game most likely you wont be killing most of the mobs so your MF stat wont be the one affecting the drops. This will force people to balance MF and their killing power.


Does it really work that way though? You can be in a party of 4, and so long as you're nearby when monster are killed then items will still drop for you. Who's to say MF only takes effect when you deliver the killing blow?


In Diablo 2, the character that got the killing blow is the one whose MF was applied to the loot dropped. It appears in Diablo 3 they've opted to just make it so your personal loot gets your MF, regardless of who got the kill. Perhaps they should adjust this back to the D2 style.

I still think that averaging out every player's attack stat so that the MF player does more damage is a brilliant solution ;)
(since people fail at sarcasm, I am only saying this to point out the massive flaw in "averaging out every player's MF". It is absolutely silly to take a stat away from a player and give it to another in a party, regardless of what stat it is and regardless of what "behavior it encourages")

09/11/2011 07:32 PMPosted by Nekora
Sure it can, but the point is that the MF stat as currently implemented gives people a large incentive to leech.


This is flawed logic. There is ALWAYS an incentive to leech. The MF stat does improve the rewards gained from leeching. While yes that kind of sucks, as I've said a million times, there is nothing forcing you to play with these people. A public game has all kinds of ways that people can be a disruptive party member, be it abusive language, pulling extra mobs on to your party, having weak gear and dying constantly, having weak gear and just not dealing any damage, killing out of range of your party so that nobody else gets the benefits from those kills, to name a few. Notice how none of those involved MF at all?

What you guys are doing is kind of akin to police profiling, really. It's like "Some guys that MF steal, lets just suspect all people that MF and throw them all in jail".

If you don't like the stat, don't want to use it, that is your CHOICE. Stop trying to argue that my CHOICE is somehow encroaching on your fun, because it's not. Bad, selfish players are, and they will have the ability to do that whether MF is kept in its current form or not.

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