How about skill leveling as a solution?

General Discussion
Does anyone recognize the pointlessness of these threads? Take a look at what has come of the simple Skill Calculator.

Honestly, it's mind boggling how you people have missed the MASSIVE accomplishment blizzard has made making this skill system.

I have 5 friends who will play this with me the day of release, we're already drawing lines as to our two 3 party teams. The reason I mention this is becuase none of us (excepting one) have decided what build we're going to use, let alone what class.

I've yet to see us make two builds the same for the same class, out of about 100 builds we've linked each other and bragged about since the calc's release. And when I say 'the same' I'm not being sneaky, we've yet to copy more than half the same skills for any build, and always the runes and passives come out slightly different.

In the end what you people want is a MATERIAL measure of differences. What blizzard has handed you is a much more meaningful SPIRITUAL measure of differences. (When I use spiritual it has no connotation in this context to religion)

The spirit of this current skill setup is wonderful. We don't need childish and complicated effects to accomplish what we already have.

Come release will builds congeal a bit? Probably, but even then, I see every ability scaling, I see blizzard commenting on a complete disregard to balance... I don't think come release we will have any issue to require an active element that forces us to make a material difference in builds.

Note: The 31-60 "deadzone" makes me laugh. It's all opinion of course, so I don't dare question it, but for me, personally? After normal difficulty in diablo 2 it was ALL about gear and the skills i had chosen getting stronger. I see no difference between this system (for d3) and the system in d2. So quit your belly aching. You just have a misplaced desire for material differences when they don't even matter.

PS: Blizz, if you read this just know that I feel like the system you have in place is the greatest step in gaming yet. It's so unorthodox and yet when you step back and look at the big picture it has the potential to actually create massive diversity. My god!

If you quote me in any way, quote my statement on the spirit of this skill system. The diversity and intensiveness of this skill system is greater than any other game I've ever played. And the game isn't even out yet.

Amen, brother.

People might argue that "you can customize your character, and make it your own" or "its part of the challenge of the game" but the problem with this is that after the game is out for a month there will be several established ways to build each character and everyone will do it.

This comment sums up the backbone of your side of the anti current-skill-system debate.

Your comment is predicated on three basic assumptions:

1. Game Balance

2. Pigeon Hole End Game Content

3. Competition

These three assumptions you've made hold the foundation of your argument. If the game is balanced, if end game content is focused into one or two paths, and if the game supports competition.

The game wont be balanced. this right away undermines competition severely. There is nothing to balance the classes against on the player side as well, so we wont see any artificial excuse-balancing. All classes have heavy aoe and heavy target damage. All have elemental attacks and all have "perceived" game breaking mechanics.

The game wont have direct endgame content. It wont force you to be a "raider" or a "pvper." The Inferno difficulty; all mobs being the same level (as well as the abolition of boss-farming) means that end game content wont require you to do certain things to be viable. this takes a huge chuck out of the need for "Best in Slot" builds. PvP is going to be a rock scissors paper game, there is no room to make it an endgame fixture.

Competition. Of course it will always be there. This will be the driving force behind homogenized "perfect" builds. They will show up. But will there be a game-wide draw for every player to have the perfect build? Nope. It wont be strong enough, namely becuase points one and two undermine it to such an extent that I almost doubt "perfect" builds we be accepted universally.

An example:
Hammerdins were the best becuase they could farm bosses and rare-dropping-locations with the most ease. D3 doesn't offer this appeal. I could farm Inferno act 1 mobs all day long and still get the same loot.

This system, the d3 inferno system, allows for classes that have an easier time killing some mobs over others (which is likely to occur). they will not be penalized or rewarded for these 'specialties', it just means if you like playing in act 2 you might want to play a class that can operate the best in act 2 inferno.
09/15/2011 04:34 PMPosted by Longrifle
I can appreciate that. However, what you describe represents a major shift from the type of game that Diablo has historically been. That being one where you did decided on a few skills that you want to dedicate your time to.

That's actually not entirely accurate, really. Diablo 1 skills were learned from book drops. Any class could learn those skills, as long as they met the requirements for them (pretty sure the books had increasing stat requirements...right? been a long time). You didn't have to dedicate yourself to any skills, you just used whatever books that you picked up. Your skills were mostly influenced by whatever class you were and it being silly trying to spam fireball on a warrior.

D2 was the only game in the franchise where you truly had to dedicate your entire character to a single build that you were locked in to forever. While it was somewhat interesting to play around with it and discover, the chief drawback was if you wanted to play with different skills, you had to create a whole new character. I don't see the positives in having to spend hours and hours of time just because I decided I like fireball more than meteor =)
You said it in your post: grinding. That's pretty much what this would turn into. I suppose this game IS all grinding, however, so I would agree that this isn't a bad idea.

Blizzard did say that they are adding achievements to show off your time and dedication to the game, so for the purpose of "show" you could use those.
In the end what you people want is a MATERIAL measure of differences.

You just have a misplaced desire for material differences when they don't even matter.

Is the desire for material differences a bad thing? Is it not at the heart of everything you do in the game. If you honestly don't have desire for material differences that you can show why play past normal difficulty? Why try for better gear?

The fact is everyone desires material things to show "look what I've accomplished." There's nothing wrong with that, it's part of what makes multiplayer games fun. People like myself, who create these "pointless" threads, are merely expressing a desire to be able to utilize the skill tree itself to achieve this.

That being said I recognize, just as you do, the value in the way Blizz has developed the way skills work in D3. My suggestion is really quite benign compared to many. At worst it requires you to spend more time playing if you want to try something new. At best it allows for the game to continue to unfold and become more interesting for a longer period of time as you work to develop all of your skills.

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