2 major design questions from beta

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09/16/2011 04:48 PMPosted by Daxxarri
That still only leaves you with 8 slots.


9. There's not much call for hot-keying scrolls anyway.

I see 5 keyboard slots, and your post says we can have 3 skills bound to the mouse. That's 8 unless I failed second grade...?

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/7241/unlednax.png
The MMO called Global Agenda, while not similar to this game, simply has a system where your abilities become locked in combat. And unlocked when the status of being in combat wears off. (maybe 10 seconds or so after aggro has disappeared.)
09/16/2011 04:56 PMPosted by Hichew
The MMO called Global Agenda, while not similar to this game, simply has a system where your abilities become locked in combat. And unlocked when the status of being in combat wears off. (maybe 10 seconds or so after aggro has disappeared.)
I approve of this method.

Having the ability to skill-swap in combat is lame. Having to go back to town is lame. However, maybe after 10 seconds of having an enemy creature on screen, you could swap skills. This COULD mean that you go back to town, or eliminate all enemies in order to change.
09/16/2011 04:54 PMPosted by Vanguard
I see 5 keyboard slots, and your post says we can have 3 skills bound to the mouse. That's 8 unless I failed second grade...?


No, that was me. 8 is the correct total. Still, that's good for skills 1-6, autoattack and a potion key. Or, since builds won't necessarily need access to autoattack, a scroll if you really, really want to hotkey it.
i'd give +1 to casttime for skill changing and +1 to a sort of cooldown
09/16/2011 04:54 PMPosted by Vanguard
I see 5 keyboard slots, and your post says we can have 3 skills bound to the mouse. That's 8 unless I failed second grade...?


He probably was thinking of when there was 7 skills, or something else I guess.
Or just make it to where your hero has to be inactive for x seconds. As in not moving/taking damage etc etc
My 2 cents, is that swapping out skills in combat should be allowed, but there should be a cooldown period eg 4 seconds before the newly swapped skill can be used. Also powerful long cooldown spells should share a common cooldown, so they can't be chain spammed.

I also think passive swapping should be allowed, with a cooldown before coming active.

Per the website run section There is already a limit of 7 (6 now?) on amount skills that can be runed, which will prevent skill swapping from being exploited much because skills that are swapped out will not be runed and therefore be much less useful/powerful. Runes can only be changed in town, which will effectively give us our specific builds later into the game.
09/16/2011 04:58 PMPosted by Daxxarri
I see 5 keyboard slots, and your post says we can have 3 skills bound to the mouse. That's 8 unless I failed second grade...?


No, that was me. 8 is the correct total.

Haha, np.

09/16/2011 04:56 PMPosted by Hichew
The MMO called Global Agenda, while not similar to this game, simply has a system where your abilities become locked in combat. And unlocked when the status of being in combat wears off. (maybe 10 seconds or so after aggro has disappeared.)

I don't feel this is a good system. It solves the issue of having more than 6 skills in combat, but still leaves it open to abuse. I could use one build to get to the boss, then I stop, put the fun on pause, and equip a build better suited to fighting the boss himself.
Or we can add cooldown to the skill replaced. 5/10/30 minutes sound good.
09/16/2011 05:01 PMPosted by Vanguard
The MMO called Global Agenda, while not similar to this game, simply has a system where your abilities become locked in combat. And unlocked when the status of being in combat wears off. (maybe 10 seconds or so after aggro has disappeared.)

I don't feel this is a good system. It solves the issue of having more than 6 skills in combat, but still leaves it open to abuse. I could use one build to get to the boss, then I stop, put the fun on pause, and equip a build better suited to fighting the boss himself.



Is that not what they're okay with? They want you to swap skills "while out adventuring."

The only real way to prevent that is to just lock skills outside of town, even if you were to put a cooldown on it, people could just as easily save that cooldown for the boss encounter.
I think skill swapping is ok, however once a rune is inserted into a skill it should be "stuck" unless your get the jewler or mystic or whichever NPC you want, to remove it and free up the skill slot thereby putting the rune into inventory but the rune is always set for that particular skill, forcing you to get a new rune.

Also, I think adding a small "cast" time between swaps will discourage use in combat.

If someone wants to swap skills out of combat a small cool down is managable.


The MMO called Global Agenda, while not similar to this game, simply has a system where your abilities become locked in combat. And unlocked when the status of being in combat wears off. (maybe 10 seconds or so after aggro has disappeared.)

I don't feel this is a good system. It solves the issue of having more than 6 skills in combat, but still leaves it open to abuse. I could use one build to get to the boss, then I stop, put the fun on pause, and equip a build better suited to fighting the boss himself.

Early in the game that may not be a big deal, I doubt it will be that popular later in the game when you would have to go to town to switch runes as well because I doubt it would be worth fighting the boss without them.
We're currently testing a few different solutions, but I don't have anything specific to report on that front just yet. We're okay with players changing their builds while they're out adventuring, but we're not comfortable with players running around with their skill pane open swapping skills during combat. We'd also rather not have a system which forces players to return to town. We’ve tried it, and it feels really bad. Of course, worse comes to worse and if our attempts to curb use in combat fail, it could very well be what we have to resort to.


I hope if you can't get anything other than "only changing in town" to work, that you at least make it so you only have to do that sometime after normal difficulty. It would be annoying going back to town every time you gain a new skill. I actually wouldn't mind it that much if you only had to go back to town in nightmare and farther, since by then I assume most people will have an idea of how to play, and any changes would require moving runestones around anyway.


I don't feel this is a good system. It solves the issue of having more than 6 skills in combat, but still leaves it open to abuse. I could use one build to get to the boss, then I stop, put the fun on pause, and equip a build better suited to fighting the boss himself.

Early in the game that may not be a big deal, I doubt it will be that popular later in the game when you would have to go to town to switch runes as well because I doubt it would be worth fighting the boss without them.


Speaking of that has the rune system change been confirmed? From what I heard on an interview they were only contemplating affixing runes to particular skills upon use.
Is that not what they're okay with? They want you to swap skills "while out adventuring."

The only real way to prevent that is to just lock skills outside of town, even if you were to put a cooldown on it, people could just as easily save that cooldown for the boss encounter.

I always interpreted it as them wanting you to be able to try out new skills as you get them, not abuse it for efficient farming.

When you really boil it down, that type of play is the same as D2's prebuffing. You switch all your equipment, cast all your pre-buffs, use item-skills, and then switch everything back to your normal gear. Getting ready to have fun instead of just having fun.

Personally, I don't see that as a wonderful gameplay element, but maybe that's just me.
09/16/2011 04:38 PMPosted by Ostagar
We're currently testing a few different solutions, but I don't have anything specific to report on that front just yet. We're okay with players changing their builds while they're out adventuring, but we're not comfortable with players running around with their skill pane open swapping skills during combat. We'd also rather not have a system which forces players to return to town. We’ve tried it, and it feels really bad. Of course, worse comes to worse and if our attempts to curb use in combat fail, it could very well be what we have to resort to.

My suggestion would be to allow the player to swap skills if they have not taken damage for x amount of seconds. Judging from the DH passive ability Brooding, this type of mechanic is possible.


I agree with this x amount of time since receiving damage or last using a skill.
"This action can not be performed while in combat" The end. Next?

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