PvP: less sport? More games!

General Discussion
IMPORTANT: This thread was not made to debate whether or not Diablo should focus more on PvP. Please keep that discussion for other threads.




So we're all aware by now that Blizzard will not support competitive PvP out of the box, to keep balancing issues from affecting the PvE game. This means a lot of features which could take Diablo 3 to the e-sports scene will be missing on release, and it could take months before a pvp balance between classes is reached. It's a decision that has sparked a lot of controversy, but it's been said, and we'll have to deal with it.

However! Arenas not having such a competitive focus anymore opens a whole new torrent of opportunities! PvP matches can become games. Things that could have been unthinkable in a competitive sport setting can now be implemented!

So I was wondering: what sort of new player against player games would you like to see? I had a few ideas I thought would be neat:

- Lottery games. At the start of the deathmatch, a player's available runes and skills are randomized! This would reward adaptive players who can quickly react to different situations and make the best out of their spells, and would allow you to try out builds you would never thought would work! To keep things fresh, your skill set could be reset every time you die, for example.

- Competitive PvM. Two teams are thrown in in separate instances of the same, randomized dungeon. It becomes a race to see which team is the first to clear the dungeon's many challenges and puzzles. This could be a set of events and quests to ensure the players don't just teleport straight to the end boss and skip the dungeon.



So far, the thread also seems to particularly wish for:

- DotA style of game, though nearly everyone agrees that the traditional games of the genre are too slow-paced. Something faster would be more fitting.

- Free-for-all arena. This could still be a deathmatch game if Blizzard really insists on not wanting people to live only once in arenas.

- Ears. Somehow.



What sort of new, original competitive matches would you like to see added to the game?
Something similar to DotA or LoL with lanes of mobs fighting, and you have to push the lane to the opposite teams base in order to win.
Along with the tower capture aspect, or more like ... Starcraft's Starjeweled, but without Bejeweled?
Sorry SawtoothGrin, but Jay Wilson explained in an interview that they felt a WoW-style ranking system just wouldn't fit with the PvP arena by making it too "competitive", and betting wouldn't be implemented either. )=
When you said more games I was looking forward to suggestions such as capture the flag, or King of the hill...

That lottery game type sounds interesting though.
09/18/2011 08:26 PMPosted by SawtoothGrin
I think the best thing that could be done for D3 Arena would be a ranking system like WoW and also I think it would be fun to place bets on yourself winning with gold.


That would make it an e-sport. Diablo isn't about PvP, never was and never will be. All that would accomplish is to make the game way more competitive than it would be fun (one reason I stopped playing SC2) if you want competetive play, there's always WoW arenas and SC2. Jay Wilson did an interview where he talked about that exact idea though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_E452S_fJwA

I think some form of freeze tag would be fun. For instance you kill a player and that player becomes frozen in ice. In order to free a player a teammate must stand next to them for a certain amount of time (5-10 seconds) and when all players become frozen their team loses. Granted it might be kind of weird working with only 4v4 but maybe they can increase team size to 6v6 or something in order to compensate.
I think Blizzard would win a lot by looking at the sort of gametypes coming out for first-person shooters. Nearly all of them can be adapted or translated into something we could play in Diablo. They keep trying to implement more and more "RPG" elements, let's do the trade both ways!
09/18/2011 08:36 PMPosted by SawtoothGrin
really doesn't do much for the pvp community.


Watch the video interview I linked. Like I said, they don't really care about PvP in Diablo as much as PvE. Who knows they will probably add more modes at a later time but it's definitely not going to be anything that casts a shadow over PvE
09/18/2011 08:30 PMPosted by Suu
Sorry SawtoothGrin, but Jay Wilson explained in an interview that they felt a WoW-style ranking system just wouldn't fit with the PvP arena by making it too "competitive", and betting wouldn't be implemented either. )=


I begin to think that this Jay wilson is a real care bear. He seem totally afraid of everything that have to word "competitive" in it.
09/18/2011 09:16 PMPosted by Obliterator
I begin to think that this Jay wilson is a real care bear. He seem totally afraid of everything that have to word "competitive" in it.


Diablo ISN'T a competitive game, same way Diablo ISN'T a first person shooter. It's not that complicated really.
09/18/2011 08:30 PMPosted by Kurnis
Something similar to DotA or LoL with lanes of mobs fighting, and you have to push the lane to the opposite teams base in order to win.


i like this, and its been discussed before, but who knows, this is probably too "competitive" for some people. Any by people i obviously mean CAREBEAR NOOBS!!

but really, i hope they include more pvp options.


reported this for trolling -- need not explain
09/18/2011 09:16 PMPosted by Obliterator
I begin to think that this Jay wilson is a real care bear. He seem totally afraid of everything that have to word "competitive" in it.

He doesn't want PvP elements to influence decisions made on a game that is primarily PvM. PvP balance means that certain moves that are very fitting against bosses and mob packs could have to be nerfed because of a clear advantage they give in PvP. An easy example is that a high evasion monk would be pretty easy to make, but that means a barbarian wouldn't even be able to hit him.

They'll make a new, separate game called "Diablo Arena" before they implement PvP balance changes at the expense of PvM fun. It's a design decision, and while it doesn't make everyone happy, there's nothing we can do at this point aside from finding other ways to enjoy PvP even more without it being competitive on an e-sports level.
09/18/2011 09:34 PMPosted by Loading
It could still possibly be an e-sport at some point in time. In fact I would bet that 3-6 months down the line there may be more emphasis on PvP balancing than PvE. They just don't want the RESPONSIBILITY of having to keep up with the PvP to the point where it can actually be considered an "E-Sport". Make sense?

You need more than balance to make an e-sport, though. You need spectatorship, rankings, recording/replays options, all different aspects that Blizzard has said they won't support. Can they reach a rough class balance? Maybe! That'd be fun, but if they make a design choice to not implement key aspect of making this something that can be enjoyed as a sport both for the players and the fans, it won't happen.
I like the ideas mentioned in the OP. My dream of pvp in D3 has been posted in this thread:

<a href="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/3196019989?page=2">http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/3196019989?page=2</a>

It's a long read for some but if your really interested check it out and read all the posts.

To add an idea for a "game" scenario would be Naked duels. Meaning all gear is removed, battle to the death, gear restored after fight. After some wins or maybe even after 1 win on HC you get the title "The Nakedman!" lol.

Gosh free for all melees in Diablo 3 sound like they'd be so scary. D=

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