Anyone find lack of weapon use annoying?

Monk
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I don't really see this being a problem... the monk is a caster melle class. People complaining about the sheathing, need to take another look at the system. The only time his weapons are unsheathed is when he puts new gear on, or he uses an auto attack. There is no reason to use auto attacks in diablo so there is no problem with the sheathing system.

Also it's not really gonna make sense to cast exploding palm or fists of lighting with a huge staff in your hand. It's not going to get changed because it's a lot of work, and changing it would probably upset another part of their player base. The ones that don't want exploding palm to work with swords. The work also isn't worth the pay off, you get a weapon that will be covered up by other visuals like lightning. I also don't want my fist weapons to ghost through my forearm when im casting exploding palm, etc.. To ask them to create new animations for everyone of the monks signiture moves and seperate weapons is a ridiculous task for such a small benefit. The animations have to be very rewarding and they spend a lot of time fine tuning them to make sure they feel good. The combat is the core of this game. It's not something a few people accomplish in a weeks time.

so look to play the barbarian if you really want to attack with your weapon.


I totally disagree.

I think a good compromise is to use the current system for stuff like exploding palm which is an obvious fist/punch type attack...and use the weapons for stuff like sweeping strikes. That way everyone will be happy. Plus they have all the animations in for the weapons anyway.

I think a Blizzard dev alluded to this subject and they were going to allow some of the monks attacks to use the weapons visually.

I hope this is true in the end. Part of the fun for me is finding that new weapon and watching how awesome it is when I hit people with it. There is nothing in Monk lore that says they never use weapons.
Idex, what are you talking about?

How am I ruining your class? Are you a Blizzard Dev? I am not...so I cant even change a class let alone ruin one.

Also its not about the skills benefiting from seeing a weapon animation...its pure visual.

Some of us like to wield katanas or swords etc and like to see those weapons being used in combat.

I dont see how that would ruin the class.

Also, if monks dont use any weapons at all why even let monks have them? Why not just give them some mystical charms with stats on them to put in their pockets and just forget about the weapons? If you are going to call me on lore then lets take it the distance. Would a monk have weapons strapped to his back and never use them? Also, I believe you can use the auto attack button and it uses the weapons...so lets just me and you both forget about lore cause Blizzard isnt sticking to any sort of lore all that closely.

So my question to you is..."how does my suggestion ruin the class in your opinion"?
I am not even sure what all the hostility here is about. The animation types match the ability type: For the punching/kicking/etc abilities, there is an animation of punching/kicking/shoulder slam/etc... for the weapon abilities, there is a weapon animation... for the casting/mantras, there is a casting/chanting/praying animation. The basic 'autoattack' is primarily weapon animation with a few kicks thrown in. You can see this in some of the various official teaser and presskit videos that Blizzard has released.
This is something that kinda urked me at first. After seeing the animations and whatnot i'm kinda over it by now.

i do think fist weapons would look better if they actually had the graphics on the fists. Unlike having a stave and swinging it during fist skills.

09/21/2011 12:25 PMPosted by AgentPaper
If you look closely, he doesn't actually use the fist weapons when he's attacking, the same as any other weapon.


This doesn't seem right. I can't find any video evidence of it. Any proof?

Also, I agree that for skills like Tempest Rush where the animation clearly involves swinging something like a staff, the monk animations would just as well have used...his actual staff (if he were carrying one, otherwise the glowing spirit staff he uses would be fine).
So it wont stop me from playing the monk, but does anyone else find the lack of weapon use in his attacks to be a little annoying?

I mean I understand that it would have been a real hassle to include unique attack animations for all of his combos, for each weapon type. But, why make staves his weapon of choice?

Why not give him fist weapons like the assassin in D2? I would think that those could actually be used in combat without needing to alter his existing animations.

Just seems kinda a silly to me to see this monk dual wielding axes or running around with a bo stave.. then instantly sheathing them so he can fight with his fists.


I agree. The Barb uses his weapons with most of his skills. Seems a shame they couldn't do the same for the Monk.
I to am fairly disappointed, I was reading a post from someone in beta and he said that fist weapons aren't used either in combos. He said he zoomed in and only during normal attacks were the fist weapons present. If this is the case whats the point in giving him weapons at all? With spirit generating combos what would be the point in using the normal attack? I was very excited about this character but seeing beta footage of a warrior that simply carries around weapons for no good reason doesn't make sense to me. In my opinion Daibo and fist weapons should be all he is allowed to use, and the fist weapons should always be on his hands during any attack.
09/26/2011 09:26 PMPosted by JJTheDamager
I to am fairly disappointed, I was reading a post from someone in beta and he said that fist weapons aren't used either in combos. He said he zoomed in and only during normal attacks were the fist weapons present. If this is the case whats the point in giving him weapons at all? With spirit generating combos what would be the point in using the normal attack? I was very excited about this character but seeing beta footage of a warrior that simply carries around weapons for no good reason doesn't make sense to me. In my opinion Daibo and fist weapons should be all he is allowed to use, and the fist weapons should always be on his hands during any attack.


I agree with you however I think the monk should be able to use the following weapons:

1. Diabo - obviously
2. Fist weapons - obviously
3. One handed swords - Picture dual wielding katanas. Maybe have a special type of swords that have favorable monk stats on them.
4. Two handed swords - Picture a two handed Katana. Same as above...some favorable monk stats on them.

I dont think monks would use axes or daggers or any kind of range weapon (maybe a longbow).

But I do think that more of the monks active skills need to actually use the weapons he is wielding to deal the damage...not sheath them when attacking. I dont mind sheathing them from time to time to use that obvious palm or fist strike...but there should be an equal amount of skills that use them.
It's really to bad he doesn't use this to smash face:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/sledge-fist
The monk using swords/daibos/etc in their attack animations isn't going to "ruin the class" for anyone. The people who like playing the monk that beasts people in the face with their fists can use hand wraps, and the people that like twirling their fancy new staff around like a loon can use a daibo. The people who only care about what has the most stats will use the items with the most stats, same as always. (And they'll also get to enjoy a larger variety of animations as they swap between weapons)

09/26/2011 08:27 AMPosted by bluewolf
If you look closely, he doesn't actually use the fist weapons when he's attacking, the same as any other weapon.


This doesn't seem right. I can't find any video evidence of it. Any proof?


It didn't seem right to me either, but I tested it myself and it's true. If someone else could also check and confirm my results that's about as much proof as I can offer. Remember to zoom in and take off your gloves before checking.

I'd upload a video myself, but I'm having problems downloading the latest patch. If I can get that working, I'll record it and upload a video later today.
09/27/2011 11:10 AMPosted by AgentPaper
It didn't seem right to me either, but I tested it myself and it's true. If someone else could also check and confirm my results that's about as much proof as I can offer. Remember to zoom in and take off your gloves before checking.


Standing with fist-wraps
http://i.imgur.com/Fe6c6.jpg

Explosive Palm with fist-wraps
http://i.imgur.com/pyETK.jpg

Deadly Reach with fist-wraps
http://i.imgur.com/z1snw.jpg

As you can see, the fist-wraps go away.
09/27/2011 12:42 PMPosted by Penance
It didn't seem right to me either, but I tested it myself and it's true. If someone else could also check and confirm my results that's about as much proof as I can offer. Remember to zoom in and take off your gloves before checking.


Standing with fist-wraps
http://i.imgur.com/Fe6c6.jpg

Explosive Palm with fist-wraps
http://i.imgur.com/pyETK.jpg

Deadly Reach with fist-wraps
http://i.imgur.com/z1snw.jpg

As you can see, the fist-wraps go away.


Nice, thanks for the pics. This is obviously silly and something blizzard needs to fix. I hope the fix includes more use of all different types of weapons.

Blizzard has stated that Diablo is a game about items...and It would be a shame if we cant use those items and enjoy the different animations...thats half the fun!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHo8XRZ7J7g

Was able to download the patch, here's a video with all the attacks with all the weapon types available.

I agree that having the monk use weapons for every single attack isn't good, especially for stuff like the final attack of Exploding Palm or Fists of Thunder, or Sweeping Kick, but similarly having him not use weapons for any of his attacks is equally bad. At the very least, the two "build up" attacks for most to all of the spirit building attacks should use weapons in their animations.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHo8XRZ7J7g

Was able to download the patch, here's a video with all the attacks with all the weapon types available.

I agree that having the monk use weapons for every single attack isn't good, especially for stuff like the final attack of Exploding Palm or Fists of Thunder, or Sweeping Kick, but similarly having him not use weapons for any of his attacks is equally bad. At the very least, the two "build up" attacks for most to all of the spirit building attacks should use weapons in their animations.


Thanks for doing this. I noticed he used the weapons for some of those attacks. Is that new this patch?

Also from the video, I could not tell which abilities he used the weapons for...can you list the ones that he uses the weapons with?

The weapon animations are great...I hope we get more of this type of thing!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHo8XRZ7J7g

Was able to download the patch, here's a video with all the attacks with all the weapon types available.

I agree that having the monk use weapons for every single attack isn't good, especially for stuff like the final attack of Exploding Palm or Fists of Thunder, or Sweeping Kick, but similarly having him not use weapons for any of his attacks is equally bad. At the very least, the two "build up" attacks for most to all of the spirit building attacks should use weapons in their animations.


Thanks for doing this. I noticed he used the weapons for some of those attacks. Is that new this patch?

Also from the video, I could not tell which abilities he used the weapons for...can you list the ones that he uses the weapons with?

The weapon animations are great...I hope we get more of this type of thing!


He swung the weapons for the normal attack, the one that doesn't generate spirit. No one will be using this one.

Here's another video. I uploaded this one to illustrate attack speeds with weapons so it's not zoomed in like AgentPaper's is. It does include all 4 combo generators available on beta with a combination of weapons.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyL6iSnhOEo
I agree with most everyone here that is disappointed about the monk not using his weapons to attack. Those who defend the idea, that it doesn't matter, are settling. The barbarian and DH have animations for each different weapon to flow with their skills, so there is no reason for the monk to be left out. Its almost an insult to the monk that blizzard over looked this issue. For the folks that have an issue with a staff being used for exploding plams i agree, but a simple system can be implemented where the first two swings can be weapon swings but the actual signature move can have the monk strike with his fists. If the monk were equiped with fist weapons he would continue through the animation, for swords he can strike with the bunt of the weapon. This i feel would be a great solution and give the character a more fluid feel when he was fighting. There is no reason to give him a weapon if he is not going to use it in combat. So much anticipation has been built around this game by the community and leaving something like attack animations out for a class seems like blizzard has gotten tired and are cutting corners. If your going to do something, then do it right.
09/27/2011 02:49 PMPosted by Buddhalover
I agree with most everyone here that is disappointed about the monk not using his weapons to attack. Those who defend the idea, that it doesn't matter, are settling. The barbarian and DH have animations for each different weapon to flow with their skills, so there is no reason for the monk to be left out. Its almost an insult to the monk that blizzard over looked this issue. For the folks that have an issue with a staff being used for exploding plams i agree, but a simple system can be implemented where the first two swings can be weapon swings but the actual signature move can have the monk strike with his fists. If the monk were equiped with fist weapons he would continue through the animation, for swords he can strike with the bunt of the weapon. This i feel would be a great solution and give the character a more fluid feel when he was fighting. There is no reason to give him a weapon if he is not going to use it in combat. So much anticipation has been built around this game by the community and leaving something like attack animations out for a class seems like blizzard has gotten tired and are cutting corners. If your going to do something, then do it right.


Totally agree...and I like your suggestion of how to do the animations!
So much anticipation has been built around this game by the community and leaving something like attack animations out for a class seems like blizzard has gotten tired and are cutting corners. If your going to do something, then do it right.


This is exactly how I feel. I sincerely hope this was a case of get the beta out and we will add certain animations later. If not then I may seriously rethink playing the monk as my main. There is no point in having a weapon in hand just to put it away again. With the way spirit generators work there will never be a reason to use normal attack.
Wall of Text:

09/27/2011 02:49 PMPosted by Buddhalover
The barbarian and DH have animations for each different weapon to flow with their skills, so there is no reason for the monk to be left out.


There is a reason, and it's solely based around attack animation count. If you look at videos, attacks that use the same general type of weapon use the same type of animation.

Watch the one AgentPaper put up and look specifically at the regular attacks.
All the 1handed weapons share the same animations. The staff and fist weapons have unique attacks. I would assume all 2hers share those same animations, at least for a monk. The same probably applies for a Barb.

DH only has 3 different types of weapons: Xbow, Bow, and 1Hand xbow. They have ~8 unique attacks that use weapons to fire and only have 3 types. DH = 21 animations for weapons.
8 * 3 = 24

Barb has a lot more weapons to choose from, but from the looks of it only has 4 attacks that could have unique animations based on attack. Barbs can also DW, so 1h weapons need 2 animations, 1 for each hand. Barb - 4 unique attacks, 2 sets of DW animations, 3 2h animations = 35 animations. 1 of the unique attacks is the base attack.
4 * ((2 * 2) + 3) = 28


The current monk is in the same seat as the Barb as far as weapon choices go, except an extra set - Fist weapons. Monks also have lots of attacks with multiple stages. Monk - 1 base attack with 2 sets of DW animations, a set of fist animations, 3 2h animations but also has 6 combo attacks each with 3 stages = 27 animations.
(1 * ((2 * 2) + 2 + 3)) + (6 * 3) = 27

Now as monks we've already got 27 attack animations WITHOUT having weapon specific animations per combo per stage. Assuming we can just use the current animations with fist items, we would need 2 sets of extra combo+stage animations. So now we're looking at 1 base attack with 2 sets of DW animations, a set of fist animations, 3 2h animations but also has 6 combo attacks each with 3 stages with 3 possible types of weapons = 63 animations.
(1 * ((2 * 2) + 2 + 3)) + (6 * 3 * 3) = 63

63 animations just with the assumption that DW, 2h, and Fists have unique sets of combo animations. That's not including if you have no weapon equipped in either hand or a shield equipped.





Note: If you're wondering where/how I got my information about the number of attacks each class uses and/or the number of animations, this is what I went on:

DH unique attacks: Hungering Arrow, Evasive Fire, Impale, Rapid Fire, Elemental Arrow, Multishot, Cluster Arrow, Rain of Vengeance. Nothing else looks like it "shoots" the weapon. Some of these could share animations.

Barb unique attacks: Bash, Cleave, Frenzy, Rend. Nothing else looks like it "uses" the weapon specifically. Some of these could share animations.

Monk unique attacks: 1 non-spirit generating melee, Each of the spirit generators.

How I figured out the animations: I watched characters swing their weapons. All non-fist 1h weapons have 2 animations per hand (2 left hand swings & 2 right hand swings) for monk, all 2h weapons have the same 3 (3 unique attacks) animations per character. Fists have their own set of animations for the monk.




tldr: our six combo builders each have 3 stages without being weapon specific. If we make weapon specific ones the animation count triples.

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