Male Demon Hunter Model

Demon Hunter
10/01/2011 01:13 PMPosted by Yumeijin
I don't think the issue is just that he's of a normal size. It's more that the Demon Hunter looks like Toby McGuire gone douchebag in Spider Man 3, when we would prefer he look like Hugh Jackman in Van Helsing. Not huge, but manly nonetheless.


Like I said:
"The males are too thin, too tame, and this translates to weak and feminine to me. Beef/menace them up!"


You're not exactly arguing any differently than I've outlined. Muscular seems to equate to manly for you. Toby McGuire's build was fine for Spider-man, a character who is supposed to be lithe. This is a character who is supposed to be tumbling, rolling, flipping and nimbly ducking out of the demons' way. This is a guy who, while he can wield two handed crossbows, is caricatured with hand crossbows, the projectile weapon that requires the least amount of physical effort. You've got your muscular builds in the Barbarian and the Monk. The Demon Hunter looks fine, dare I say normal.

I'm really tired of people complaining solely due to their own insecurities. If anyone truly feels so inadequate playing a character that isn't bulked up, they can play a class that caters to that aesthetic. Frankly, I think the aesthetic of the Demon Hunter with a lithe, toned build suits the intended agile character type.

Besides, the ladies need some eye-candy, too.


How about less spiderman 3 emo more spider man 2 kickass... its the same person but with a subtle shift in things like apperance and posture that turns him from cool to lame.
I don't think insecurity plays a part in peoples' reception of the male DH -- for me it's just personal preference and play-style. The actions, demeanor and posture of the current DH model are very unlike how I envision a Demon Hunter.

To be more clear; I like the size/physique of the model -- it is characteristic of an agile marksman with a dark side. I just don't like the model's movements and animations because they are uncharacteristic of the hero and 'feel' weird to me.

Perhaps insecurity does not play a part in it for you, but that's not what I commonly see demonstrated in these types of threads, nor what I had seen in this one prior to my posting. I hadn't seen complaints that his posture was awkward or his movements uncharacteristic, but rather that he looked like he was too thin and thusly feminine and weak.

As for insecurities, I think you're giving the audience that tends to complain with such arguments more credit than they deserve.

There were similar complaints about the Blood Elves and the Worgen in WoW and for some reason, Blizzard catered to it.

How about for once, they don't?


You may or may not follow business and/or marketing news and trends, but what is finally surfacing to the 'public' is that businesses should listen to and heed the consumers' wishes whenever realistic (after all, the businesses make products specifically for the customer). So, Blizzard is correct to acquiesce to the consumers' majority opinions on issues like the DH model and otherwise.
Right, a business' prerogative is to make money. Personally, I'm of the mind that the "Customer is always right" mindset which leads to such acquiescing is fostering an entitled mindset in every generation of society, but that's neither here nor there. As you said, it is sensible to heed the consumer's wishes whenever realistic. I doubt the potential loss of customers over such an aesthetic would be comparable to the loss in money (both lost in labor and in actual payroll) that recreating a model that meets unanimous approval involves. I'm willing to bet the people who complained about the original Blood Elf, Worgen, and these models would still pay for the product and simply choose the aesthetic that suits their flavor instead. Of course, we'll never know unless Blizz buckles down, keep such a body type, and proceeds receives a deluge of complaints and substantial loss of sales.

To be honest, I'm actually dubious that the people requesting such changes are even in the majority so much as more obnoxiously vocal about it.

10/01/2011 11:07 PMPosted by Krix
I think you really misunderstood what I meant. I may have just not been as descriptive as I should have though.
Really? Considering the following:
Quite frankly, the current male model in the beta looks like a bit of a !@#$%. He has no meat on his bones and he doesn't feel deadly to me.

I'd really like to see a little bit more muscle definition and a darker mysterious feel to him. Currently, he looks like a guy that happens to kills demons and shops only at Hot Topic.
I think my hasty assessment of
"The males are too thin, too tame, and this translates to weak and feminine to me. Beef/menace them up!"
is quite apropos.

10/01/2011 11:07 PMPosted by Krix
I don't want him to look "beefy" at all. Someone even said Van Helsing sized, which I think would be pretty badass now that it's been mentioned, but I still think the slim figure style is great. There's a huge difference between being beefy and being and slim and fit. The male Demon Hunter is a skeleton w/ skin stretched over it. It's just my opinion that he should just have a little more muscle definition (i.e. any at all).

I don't think you're looking hard enough. He's got muscle definition, it's the Wizard that, appropriately, lacks any. The Male DH is only slightly leaner than the Monk, the latter of which has thicker calves and less of a pinch on his upper arms to his elbows, and a thicker torso, which is really the biggest difference aside from the stance. I think that might actually be the problem, in retrospect, the Demon Hunter hunches, puts one foot in front of the other and stands at an angle, exaggerating his already slim physique. The Monk stands tall, and faces any direction head on.

For reference's sake, here's a comparative shot:
http://i54.tinypic.com/2h6vocx.png

10/01/2011 11:07 PMPosted by Krix
Edit: Actually, I rather like the male Blood Elf model. It's exactly what it's suppose to be. Very lean and skinny, but they don't look weak either.

It's also the "beefed up" version of what was originally designed. Go figure, people complained they looked too thin and frail, Blizzard beefed them up, and people still make jokes about them looking weak and frail.
10/02/2011 07:52 AMPosted by Acaelus
The Witch Doctor looks just right for his "drugged up crazy old voodoo man" style.


Lawlz. I definitely agree though.
10/02/2011 12:59 PMPosted by Yumeijin
I don't think you're looking hard enough. He's got muscle definition, it's the Wizard that, appropriately, lacks any. The Male DH is only slightly leaner than the Monk, the latter of which has thicker calves and less of a pinch on his upper arms to his elbows, and a thicker torso, which is really the biggest difference aside from the stance. I think that might actually be the problem, in retrospect, the Demon Hunter hunches, puts one foot in front of the other and stands at an angle, exaggerating his already slim physique. The Monk stands tall, and faces any direction head on.


I'm just stating my opinion. I respect yours and only request that you do the same. I think you made some good points. As someone else pointed out and you agreed with, I think the pose does play a rather large role in why he looks so frail. However, the more I think about it, the more a "Van Helsing" model seems perfect.

Any insecurities I may or may not have play no part in what I think about the male DH's model. You can't be a hunter w/out being tough and having strength. You can't hunt demons and be a sissy. The design is just illogical to me.

I think they nailed every other model quite nicely.
I really like the look of the male DH. Aside from his hairstyle, I think his lean yet muscular physique is quite fitting to a very agile archetype. I get that his bangs hanging in his face, give off an emo like vibe, but once you put a hood or helmet on, you never notice.

I also, love his idle pose. Doesn't look frail to me at all. If anything, it accentuates his lean tapered waste and wide shoulders/chest.
He looks fine to me. Going by a comment during the DH reveal panel, its quite possible he was designed to give the ladies something nice to look at. Beefcake is nice, but variety is nice too. :P
Actually is just the hairstyle but I am fine with him. I might role a male Dh after all...who knows.
Cool. This is what I was really looking for. It seems to be about 50/50 so far. That's not even remotely deserving of change.
He's not a melee type so hes naturally thin like the wizard.
10/02/2011 10:10 PMPosted by Krix
Any insecurities I may or may not have play no part in what I think about the male DH's model. You can't be a hunter w/out being tough and having strength. You can't hunt demons and be a sissy. The design is just illogical to me.

Any insecurities you, or others, may or may not have play the part of the foundation of this argument. You've submitted that the basis of your opinion is that he looks too thin, as though he does not have enough muscle, and muscle clearly equates to strength (per your "can't be a hunter without being tough and having strength remark) to you. The crux of your argument is that, lacking in muscles (by your standard) is lacking in strength, and you would prefer not to play someone lacking in strength, when it should be largely irrelevant. Your masculinity isn't threatened because you play a character who you perceive to be weak, so why should it matter? But I'm likely barking up the wrong tree, there'll be no epiphany down that avenue.

So I'll address instead the fallacy that muscle equates to strength. And by address, I mean I'll make a succinct point and list a series of tropes to reinforce that point. Muscles don't necessarily equate to strength, they don't equate to combat capability and they are not required to be a BAMF. As such, you can be a hunter without the extra muscle that implies strength to you, particularly a hunter of demons, at that. Examples? Check out:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HiddenBadass
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AgentPeacock
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MuggingTheMonster
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MusclesAreMeaningless
I'm not opposed at all to having my own mind changed. I will certainly adjust my point of view to see things from another's perspective. Even though you have been pompous and condescending towards me, I still try to read your points w/out letting emotions become involved.

In the end, you are correct, you remain unable to spark any epiphanies (Side Note: insults are a very ineffective persuasion technique). You've been so aggressive that I can only assume I've offended you in some personal way. If you're of the lithe body type, there's nothing wrong w/ that. I'm fairly thin, myself. Regardless, I apologize for any insult you may have felt as a result from my posts in this thread.

If you continue to post on this thread, I would respectfully request that you do so constructively and respect the opinions of others.
Not sure why I didn't remember it when I made my first post, but I recalled the time I took an archery class in college. Working with a basic recurve bow, it will tone your arms up pretty quickly. It certainly won't give beefy arms, just the endurance the muscles need to hold a taut bowstring in place. When talking about the DH at Blizzcon, the devs toyed with the idea of the DH being part demon, and having this wonky, bulky demon arm, but they decided it made the character look too much like a melee class, so they scrapped it, and for the better I'd say.
I hope they don't tweak the model from the way he looks now. I like his look and am considering DH for my first play through (was for the longest time set on witchdoctor). Fun to play, fun to look at, one can't go wrong there. XD
I definitely agree that the demon limb they were considering would look pretty silly.

A compound bow is really the only weapon that an archer needs almost no muscle to use, but there are none in D3. Even a crossbow requires more strength than most would guess. It's not easy to !@#$ a crossbow, especially when you have to do it in rapid succession to kill droves of demons.

I thought about the male DH model a lot while I was in my class today. I've changed my mind. Although I still think he would look better if he were a bit more toned, quite a few seem to like the design (especially Yumeijin). My distaste for the male model is just enough that I'll play a female instead. Some have agreed w/ me and some have disagreed. The latter of which seems to have a stronger opinion than the former. Therefore, I retract my request to change the model. I'll just credit the DH's ability to do what he does with what he has, to the same thing that allows a Gnome to tank something hundreds of times larger than itself... magic! :D

All 9 of the other models feel very appropriately designed so I have plenty of other choices to be happy with. You can enjoy this one. :)

Edit: I wish the censor script took context into account. Now I look like a potty mouth :(
Crossbows are indeed tough to reload. I've only handled a light ren faire model, and that took some strength to pull the string back. Heavy crossbows required either a tool for the job, and I think there might have been one design that had a crank built into it. Regardless, it takes much much longer to reload those things than would be feasible in the game, thus we have magic to assist! :3 Magic is also the answer to how the heck a DH is able to dual wield hand crossbows in the first place. It would be so awkward trying to reload those things. XD

(on a side note, I think I'll use magic as an answer to how the female DH is able to run around in those boots of hers. Saw those and was like "how in the world are those comfortable? o.O")
I hope with the months of delay behind D3 there is a better looking demon hunter. The current one does not look gritty or even like it belongs in the world or lore for diablo.

LOL i would rather see a model like Keanu Reeves more than the male demon hunter now.
10/04/2011 06:39 PMPosted by Vexxus
I think I'll use magic as an answer to how the female DH is able to run around in those boots of hers. Saw those and was like "how in the world are those comfortable? o.O"

Lawlz. There's something I hadn't noticed until you pointed it out, but I think most women have that magical ability so I'm not too impressed.

10/04/2011 07:39 PMPosted by BehemothGHun
LOL i would rather see a model like Keanu Reeves more than the male demon hunter now.

Obviously, he is "The One".
10/04/2011 09:12 PMPosted by Krix
LOL i would rather see a model like Keanu Reeves more than the male demon hunter now.

Obviously, he is "The One".


Whoa. Hell yes.
10/04/2011 09:12 PMPosted by Krix
Lawlz. There's something I hadn't noticed until you pointed it out, but I think most women have that magical ability so I'm not too impressed.


Boots like that are awesome, but kill your feet after a few hours. Plus running over forest ground and fields, there would be a likely chance of getting a heel stuck. But I end up filing such things with the rest of fantasy armor: impractical, but looks awesome. So I roll with it. :3
A High Level Male Demon hunter AKA Mighty Moshin' Emo Ranger

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