Beta is very underwhelming aesthetically

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11/24/2011 04:31 PMPosted by Logiconius
I'm sorry, but the animation in generals are WAY better then the previous game... Try playing D1 after the D3 beta and it looks just like old cartoons.


Disagree.. Diablo 1 scares the !@#$ out of you if you play it with headphones and in the dark.
( Dat medieval music was just something else, the music while entering dungeons, the voices.. it's still relevant for me, with "less quality graphics".. don't think it was cartoonish. )

Diablo 3 on the other hand... I hope a good dark mod comes out.. even if it's graphics are better in quality, pixel count.
While snarlers strive with proud but fruitless pain to wound immortals, or to slay the slain.
i have to lol at that Mw3 if you want ultra realistic
The game has been designed exactly as it was meant to be designed. If you don't like it don't play. Complaining to everyone on the forums isn't going to make blizzard restylize everything to your liking. The game is dark and foreboding.. I believe these are better adjectives than "scary" or "quarky".

You just need to expand that vocabulary ;P
What I do not like are the animations, specifically the monster animations (not to say the heroes couldn't use more animations). Some of them seem comically cartoonish. Creatures like the Grotesque seem more like the Stay Puft Marshmallow man than some disgusting creature that splits apart into eel like worms when it dies. In fact, most of the higher end creatures seem fairly limited in their animations, slightly boring, and not befitting the mood of the game at all. The pod that emitted bat like creatures got a laugh from me with it's little shudder. The town portal seems like a happy bouncy opening, rather than a rip into space time. Even the zombies are disappointing and cartoonish, skeletons weren't much better.


so what your saying is the animations in d1 and d2 are less cartoony and overall better than the animations in diablo 3? You realize d1 and d2 wasnt any less cartoony seeing that it was played on 640x480 resolution. You may think the color palette is vastly different from the other games but it really isnt. D1 and D2 appeared "darker" because it was darker mostly from the light radius feature.

Maybe they were satisfying because I didn't like seeing these cartoonish creatures in a Diablo game


Cartoon-
a sketch or drawing, usually humorous, as in a newspaper or periodical, symbolizing, satirizing, or caricaturing some action, subject, or person of popular interest.

http://classic.battle.net/diablo2exp/monsters/act1-wendigo.shtml

how is this any less of a cartoon??? Also please elaborate why this wendigo's animations are so much better than the animations made 10 years later on a resolution unheard of when this was made.
So... Many.... Walls-of-text!

/e wall of text crits you for 121,522 (42,578 overkill)
I agree that things look cartoonish.
I agree that D1 and even D2 /seemed/ more horrific.
The beginning scene in D1 set the game to be a bit creepy, for sure.
However I don't think they really changed it all that much.

First,
The difficulty is a HUGE make or break for me.
If you can load up D1 and Hellfire on your computer, and go to
http://www.diablothehell.narod.ru/
and after you look around, install the mod.
The way that guy made the mod, made the game really tough.
I suppose it is biased to what one would call a tough game,
however I was scared to go down the third set of stairs in the cathedral in that mod
and not to mention trying the Butcher without a really good plan at the early levels.
Even as it is, unless you know something about diablo, you may die on the butcher the first time around. It's a good wake-up call from killing scavengers and fallen that run away from you.
Doesn't mean it is horrific, just means one can be scared of dying.

Second:
Unfortunately though, I think the lack of indistinguishable features made D3 less horrific.
I think they /were/ trying to make it like the predecessors,
However because of a demand for quality graphics, all the extra pixels make for less use of imagination.
Think about it.
In D1, you had the same amount of pixels in a whole scene, as you do in an eyeball of a player character in D3.
The lack of details in D1 presented you with a kind of make-your-own atmosphere approach.
You were young (possibly), and really wanted the game to be scary.
Go play it now.
2 things make the game scary now.
- The music.
- The lack of details.

That's really it. If you really open up to it, the models and spells etc are all quite cartoonish.
It's all in your head.

Now, if I go play D1 - I get some potions, I dupe if I really feel like it, then I go kill a few levels to get exp, then go kill butcher, 1, 2. It's not scary if you approach it like this, because you are simply killing things in a mindless fashion.

When I was younger, I experienced D1 like this:
I see a pile of dead bodies in a room.
I imagine what could possibly have put them in a pile like that, on a steak.
I see the Butcher. I think "oh crap maybe he killed all these poor people!"
He says his famous line. I attempt to hit him like all things.
I die.
I see my dead body in a red-ish screen (in disbelief) and hope there is some kind of continue option, and now, I know why the townsfolk are so scared of him.

So we have: something that looked like bodies. a surprise boss. a death.

They have that in D2, and they will have that in D3.

All you need to add is imagination to pair with the gameplay, and look! It's exactly like D1.

The only issue is that with all these new graphic upgrades, you simply have to use your imagination more to compensate. Play it in a dark room by yourself and pretend you are there.

Or, wait for the mod community to make a D1 clone via D3 engine if you really want to try what once was. Though I think that may also be disappointing considering my points on graphics.
I know you said that you understand that this is the beta, but I really think your failing to realize it's the beta. Do you remember at all what the beta for Diablo 2 looked and sounded like? Take a look here if you don't know or remember what it was like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TMvsLXwr-w. Most of the sounds weren't even kept from the beta when it was released/patched. I have a feeling A LOT will be changed, come release. Whether its different on release or the first couple of patches will change a lot of stuff. Hope this will change your mind a little bit. Much love, John.

Edit: There's so many things in that video to notice, like around 1:20 it shows the necromancer summon 2 golem's and the sound effects are just plan garbage!! It almost looks like it's from Diablo 1. The game didn't look or sound anything like how it was crafted to this day. Everyone just needs to chill out a little I think ;)
Diablo should have a darkness to it. Its been built on the premise that no matter how much good people do evil has a way of finding strength again that only a few have the resolve to resist.

"Ah, Fresh meat." combined with terrifying speed = scary. Dark hard to see catacombs and labyrinths scary places.

D2 lost a lot of this by pursuing most of the game in an outdoor environment (an attempt to keep up with Bioware's Baldurs Gate series which were epic in every sense). Diablo games need 2 things. Detail, and darkness to hide that detail until its so close its tearing the red out of your globe of life.

On the note of the grotesque; perhaps they intended the unit to not look scary at all. Perhaps its intended to make players think "i'll just smash this guy quickly" then all of a sudden they're surrounded by worms and thinking, ah crap that was tricksey.

just musings
On inferno difficulty, perhaps we could have a lower light radius...
this would make it seem 'scarier'

The main source of light would be the brief illuminating flash from a spell, showing you the grizzly horrors ahead for a brief second, before they're once more out of sight and in the darkness waiting for you.

etc

This thread is reminding me of D2 beta days, when a vocal (though loud) minority made the same accusations about D2's art style and animations. In D1 as well, I can recall quite a few complaints about the animations being too "stiff". Somehow, the animations on those monsters from hell did not seem "realistic" enough.

Yes. Monsters, from hell, not looking realistic enough...

What is this fascination with wanting a game to look realistic? Would you like to forget that you are playing a game? Would you somehow feel more empowered if you could better immerse yourself while murdering hundreds of thousands of demons, magically reanimated corpses, other entirely imaginary creatures and, oh yeah, SATAN? Is there that much of a lack of sense of personal accomplishment in your life to crave immersion and a relation to your character in a game?

I personally am quite pleased with the aesthetic and feel like there is plenty of atmosphere to go around just in the small portion of the game we've seen. The fact that this beta is an unfinished preview of the the first third of the first act of normal difficulty should maybe help alleviate any anxiety about the perceived lack of epicness of the game.
You didn't actually think that the cartoonish half-arsed feel of WoW wouldn't spill into D3 did you?
I personally think the graphics are quite cartoonish. They don't seem as gory or dark as diablo 1 and 2. I mean when your playing diablo 2 you'll see blood splattered all across the walls, dead bodies in torture machines, and other gory stuff like that. Playing hardcore is quite terrifying in diablo 2 and frankly from the videos I've seen over diablo 3 it looks a lot less diabloy and a lot more WoWy. It still looks like a fun and great game, don't get me wrong, but from the graphics I've seen the gore and darkness level has been drastically reduced compared to diablo 1 and 2.
There are plenty of corpses and mutilated bodies in D3. It's just that they look like plastic or rubber, so it doesn't really register. Don't expect a place like the Chaos Sanctuary with hundreds of human skulls littering the ground. You can't get that sort of detail in 3D games yet, at least not with Blizz graphics.

The D3 environments themselves are actually decent though. I enjoy the dark woods and rolling fog of A1. The Cathedral interior looks really generic and like a lot of the early TL1 dungeons but the other dungeons are good (under the well, the cave of the fallen). I wonder if this trend will continue where man made stuff looks dodgy, natural settings look better.

Illiek: But D2 was a dramatic departure from D1 (even moreso than D3 from D2). D1 was claustrophobic, dark (literally), and had a low player:monster speed ratio. D2 was wide open, much brighter in parts (A2), and you could zoom past enemies at like 20x their speed.

Sometimes I wonder how awesome a sprite-based SC2/D3 could look like nowadays with higher resolutions. It'd be a PITA to make AFAIK because there isn't the scaling you'd get from models. So you'd have to make models for every resolution.

John: I was in the SC2 beta and I don't remember any sound changes from it and the final version. Maybe a couple here and there. They never did add in the iconic siege tank sound. :(
Have you SEEN Siegebreaker biting the Barb's head off? I mean these monsters in beta are the equivalent of Den of Evil trash. They have the AI of turnips, let's wait for Inferno mode. Who the hell plays normal anyway?
11/25/2011 04:42 PMPosted by GoObus
Have you SEEN Siegebreaker biting the Barb's head off? I mean these monsters in beta are the equivalent of Den of Evil trash. They have the AI of turnips, let's wait for Inferno mode. Who the hell plays normal anyway?


Exactly. It's ridiculous that people are complaining about the "gore and darkness" level of Diablo 3 when we've seen what, 10 different enemies and the first half of the tutorial basically? And what made the "gore and darkness" level of Diablo or Diablo 2 any better really? I remember them being scary when I first played them because I was around 12 years old I think.

As a side note, some say the light radius effect would make Diablo 3 more frightening, but is that really the case? Would having a light radius prevent you from seeing the tutorial level's mobs really make it more frightening? Personally, I never liked the light radius effect. It seemed more of a nuisance to me than it did some truly frightening mechanic of Diablo and Diablo 2.
11/23/2011 10:13 AMPosted by Chromeburn
I disagree, the game is in beta and they have not set a release date. If anything, now is the time to fix such issues, to listen to what your fan base is telling you. And what I am suggesting would not take that long to fix


See I was sort of on your side of this whole issue, until this point. You have some semi-valid points and made a decent argument...a little one sided but decent enough, much better than the usual troll threads I read around here.

But to the point; here you go, like so many others do, saying things like that. Bunching all of the "fans" together. I barley see anyone complaining about the animations...only you so far. The graphics are one thing, and here seems to be a fix for those who want it to be Doom 3 all over again. but I see none of their other "fan" base, pushing for a change in monster animations to make the scarier. If I am wrong please show me the throng of posts and rantings of people who share your exact concerns that make up a large enough portion of the fan base for Blizzard to actually delay their game.

In a nutshell what you said there was that Blizzard needs to delay the game because you aren't happy with the animations, and that because you work in a similar field, they should have enough time to make the changes quickly. You are assuming that everyone else wants the same thing, when they don't. And your point about it not taking much time to make, is negligible, the game has been anticipated for the last 4 years or so, give or take, since its announcement. It has been 11 or so years since Diablo 2 was released, I think it is safe to say from the response this game has gotten, and how hungry everyone is for a beta key, just to play 3% of what the game has to offer, it is pretty obvious that a majority of the fans want it released asap. All that nonsense you have spouted about the animations can wait and be fixed in a patch if it is that big of a deal.
11/24/2011 09:00 PMPosted by Gidgit
The game has been designed exactly as it was meant to be designed. If you don't like it don't play. Complaining to everyone on the forums isn't going to make blizzard restylize everything to your liking. The game is dark and foreboding.. I believe these are better adjectives than "scary" or "quarky". <br /><br />You just need to expand that vocabulary ;P


They need to expand, and see if the words they are using have different meanings. Take dark for example it also use to describe evil traits. Dark definition: arising from or showing evil traits or desires. Such as dark power, I would say all of what is happening in the world of Sanctuary is dark from this definition of dark.

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