magic find imbalanced?

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I don't recall this ever being an issue in D2, but I guess that's because it was before WoW.
11/30/2011 09:07 PMPosted by Hath
I don't recall this ever being an issue in D2, but I guess that's because it was before WoW.


and before the RMAH

the problem was extremely small in d2, its still pretty small in d3, but its much bigger now

the RMAH removes most incentive to wear anything but MF gear
11/30/2011 09:14 PMPosted by Honor
I don't recall this ever being an issue in D2, but I guess that's because it was before WoW.


and before the RMAH

the problem was extremely small in d2, its still pretty small in d3, but its much bigger now

the RMAH removes most incentive to wear anything but MF gear


Maybe I'm just indifferent, because I don't plan on using the RMAH at all.
Except some of the biggest sellers on the RMAH will not depend on MF to get

you're putting more value on MF than it deserves
11/30/2011 09:23 PMPosted by Hath


and before the RMAH

the problem was extremely small in d2, its still pretty small in d3, but its much bigger now

the RMAH removes most incentive to wear anything but MF gear


Maybe I'm just indifferent, because I don't plan on using the RMAH at all.


spose thats a good thing =P
Except some of the biggest sellers on the RMAH will not depend on MF to get

you're putting more value on MF than it deserves



granted, you wont need mf to find the goods, but no matter how you look at it, mf increases ur odds of gaining wealth, and now, its real wealth, not just in game
11/30/2011 07:38 PMPosted by Whiddin
Whatever solution we end up at it cannot compromise the desire to play with others, either through literal disadvantages, to social situations that cause frustrations through griefing, mistrust, people 'pulling their own weight', etc.


Caveat - I haven't read the whole thread, just saw this on blue tracker.

How about each player's chance to find magic items is affected thusly:
~The total effective damage and healing done by the entire group while the monster is engaged (or within the last 5-10 seconds for swarming monsters, etc.) is added together.
~The percentage of that total contributed by the player is multiplied by the number of players contributing.
~The resultant percentage is then used to modify the player's magic find value directly.

E.g. in a four player game, the boss has 4,000 health. The group does no healing.
Player 1 contributed 1,000 damage; 25% of the total. 25% times 4 players is 100%, so 100% of that player's magic find value is applied to his drop rate.
Player 2 contributed only 500 damage, so only half (12.5% x 4) of his magic find applies.
Player 3 contributed 1,500 damage, so his MF is actually INCREASED to 150% (37.5 x 4) of its normal value.

Player 1 has 25 MF. {25 x 1.0 = 25 effective}
Player 2 has 80 MF. {80 x 0.5 = 40 effective}
Player 3 has 15 MF. {15 x 1.5 = 22.5 effective}
Player 4 has 30 MF. {30 x 1.0 = 30 effective}

Obviously these are very round numbers, but you can see how performance directly determines loot bonus (assuming you have any MF at all). In a single player game, you'll do 100% of the damage (ignoring bots), so all of your MF works! Not a perfect system, I'm sure, and I think the multiplier would have to be more than 1 to properly reward awesome people and punish lazy people, but it's a good start.

Lastly, to avoid rewarding players who bring a "dummy" player along to boost their multipliers, just make sure the "Diablo's minions have grown stronger" bit is stiff enough to basically require all the players to contribute in order to make the run at all practical.

Can't wait to play!!


No, what this does is forces players to be absolute optimal dps, maybe even at the cost of survivability. Want more magic find, you have to give up resist in order to gain more dps. Want more magic find give up that defense stat to get more dps, to get more magic find.
This all comes down to crybabies in this game .......
If they player isnt holding there weight /vote kick or leave game PROBLEM !@#$ING SOLVED...........................................


I have nothing against MF, but if you are going to gimp yourself to the point where I must carry you. Because you have used every available random affix slot for MF, you have put as much MF in your gear through enchants if possible, and gems as possible. Then your combat and survivability is so low you would not survive long in inferno. I do not think that one player will be able to handle the mobs. While the other three sits there collecting all of the loot.

All I ask is what no doubt most that do not mind using MF will be asking. Instead of stacking it insanely high. Just hit the sweet spot where you would still be able to help me kill things along with having a good combat stats (damage and damage mitigation). A balance of the two is not asking so much you know.
It's very hard to tell whether or not Magic Find is having any effect, unless you very carefully count the drops you find. More noticeable stats like +Attack or even Chance on Hit are far more fun.
It's very hard to tell whether or not Magic Find is having any effect, unless you very carefully count the drops you find. More noticeable stats like +Attack or even Chance on Hit are far more fun.


unless your idea of "fun" is getting better gear than the other people your group.

I would find that fun. I think many others would too, hence the problem.
Here's my solution for MF (skipped the few last pages, sorry if it's been said already).

Make it so that other peoples MF increases yours by a %. For exemple, let's say your personnal MF gives your teamates a 10% of your total MF as a bonus to theirs.

3 players have 0% MF and 1 player has 500% MF. The 3 0% MF players give no bonuses, but the 500% MF player gives each of them a 50% bonus MF each. That way, for carrying his !@# around, all 3 of them get 50% bonus MF for their loots.

Now let's take a scenario where everyone has 100% MF. They now have 130% MF each (because you can't give yourself a free 10% MF bonus now can you).

If all players have 500% MF, then they each end up with 650% instead. They are gonna get amazing chances for better drops, but it will take them much more time and they might die more often.

Time was and is still a very important thing to consider in MF : even if I can kill anything whatever my MF % is, am I gonna sit all day on a single pack of mobs ?

Let's not forget 3 things :

- Drops are already increased for having more players in the game (so whoever you're teaming with, you're getting increased drops)
- If you stack too much MF, you are gonna take forever to kill stuff, solo or in teams.
- If you have no MF, you might not get increased chances per drop, but you will kill stuff much faster and die a lot less, meaning more drops and more chances per time frame.

Gold will also hold a lof more value now ; why not do the same thing with GF ?

And finally, because this is all random, a team with 4 players at 500% MF each or a team with 100% MF each might have the exact same drops quality per a set time frame, especially now that the best loot source will be rare mobs and champs across the whole damn game, and not act bosses and super minions like in D2 who were always in the same spots.

IMO, if MF/GF was that way, I don't see how the hell someone can complain about it. It still gives solo players the freedom to balance things the way they want them to be, and makes partying even more profitable whatever the MF % involved.

EDIT : also, to compensate for my idea above, you can just lower the drop increase from having many players in the game to even it out ; players with tons of MF will hold even more value for a team, even if they slow them down.
We all may be missin the point of sets. An MF set should be equipped before rare/champ/elite/bosses are encountered, and if the trash before them is really that hard throw on some workin boots to deal some damahe. I don't see a party of 4 bein stopped by a bunch of trash packs mf set or not.
@MicroThis : Sets are contraints when used that way. Unless there's a hotkey to switch sets, I don't think you'll have the time to change your whole gear while running away from Inferno rare mobs, or painfully get to town each time to do so.

Sets should be equiped in town for each games or long periods of times in a game : am I rushing, am I MFing, am I GFing, etc. I don't want to carry 4-5 sets for each situation and take the time to change every pieces of gear all the time.
I wouldn't say 4-5 sets, the amount of randomized stats on some items could be heavily in favor of makin hold findin and mf stats both on every piece of a set. and riht clickin to equip isnt that hard, im sure there will be macros of some sort.

I plan to have a set or two pre-planned in my inventory plus my equipped, i wouldnt see how certain situations would have a need for what your not usin in this title.
11/30/2011 09:14 PMPosted by Honor
I don't recall this ever being an issue in D2, but I guess that's because it was before WoW.


and before the RMAH

the problem was extremely small in d2, its still pretty small in d3, but its much bigger now

the RMAH removes most incentive to wear anything but MF gear

More importantly it was before individual drops. In D2 it was worth "carrying" a MFer because he was probably at the back and couldn't get to the drop before someone else got it.

Now it's everyone for themselves and I can see a whole lot of people going into public games to be carried, because they couldn't solo with that amount of MF gear.

Nothing against it in friend games, they know what they are letting themselves in for.

And to say "just kick or leave yourself". Well, who's to say there wouldn't be a timer on kicking (like WoW), and leaving? Why should I if I started the game.

It's co-operative, so anybody entering a game should be to the betterment of all the party. If some of their MF rubs off onto the rest, then that helps, if they have no MF but do mega damage, that helps. Standing at the back doing little for personal gain does not.
11/27/2011 04:04 PMPosted by KhaydarinXxX
person who contributes less gets the most loot?


Not really but I get your point. While I highly doubt it will make a huge difference, I would suggest everyone have a MF set and a DPS set. Only swap to the Damage set when you cant kill something.

As for a design standpoint, I would suggest to blizzard (warning pseudo code inc):

If(Player_MF < Group_Avg_MF)
MF=Group_Avg_MF

This way those who focus on DPS gain a benefit from those who focus on MF but those who focused on MF are not penalized for having done so.

Non-Coder explanation:
If the group MF average is greater than the players MF he gains the group MF average as his MF. This also wont penalize those with higher MF than the Group average.
There is a very easy way to balance MF in D3 parties that rewards the entire party for both dealing damage, and MF stacking.

In the current system, 'freeloaders' who stack MF will contribute a minority of the damage, but reap the majority of the loot.

This should be switched to a system where every player's MF is set to the average of the entire party. Now a 'freeloader' who isn't pulling his weight in damage can still buff his teammates' drop rates. There is still an incentive to stack MF, but players who chose not to are not left out. 'Selfish' stacking of MF is now a group benefit.
Why average it, make the whole party MF=highest single char MF.

Then it would be worth having a dedicated MFer. Only downside would possibly be kicking someone because they didn't have MF. Bit of a twist.
Bullit
Why average it, make the whole party MF=highest single char MF.

Then it would be worth having a dedicated MFer. Only downside would possibly be kicking someone because they didn't have MF. Bit of a twist.


Then the optimal group would be 3 überdps chars and 1 MF 'stat stick' player whose job is to not die while buffing the party with MF. This is the most boring job I can think of. Worse still, any party that does't employ this tactic will be farming at ~1/4 the rate of such a dedicated group.

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