magic find imbalanced?

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surprise surprise...the guy who want's damage meters also doesn't want anyone in his game to have +mf gear.

edit: how about all the other non +damage stats.....are they imbalanced as well?
The way it is, is fine, theoritically by wearing a MF set you may do less "dps", But still, in a full MF set it's not like you will be standing there doing no damage, it will still be a viable enough contribution, If the other party members have 0% MF gear, that's their choice, if they want more MF they can equip it themselves, I think 4 member's who know how to play, should be able to clear Nightmare/Hell in full MF set, Inferno might be a different story until you get a full inferno set, but at the end of the day there is no imbalance, if you want Magic Find, you get your own.
In my opinion it is a bad idea to average mf throughout the entire group for the following reasons:

1. If you are getting paid to rush a low-mid level character through NM or Hell it negatively effects your loots drops. A big reason to spend time rushing people through the game was to be able to find loot on the way through.

2. If you are in a public game and the other members of the group just finished leveling up and are noobs with no MF gear equipped. They negatively effect your mf. If it were me I would just leave because I don't want scrubs to waste my time by negating the amount of MF I'm wearing.

3. If you are in a public game and someone joins for reasons other than trying to kill stuff with the group. Wouldn't their MF (or lack of MF) hold the group back from finding things?

4. If you are in a public game with someone who is only stacking damage-dealing stats and refuses to use any MF. They are negatively effecting my loot drops.

It's a two way street. Just because someone is stacking MF doesn't mean they are going to be useless to the group. More than likely they are going to be more useful because they are smart enough to use MF items which will probably show in their ability to use their character. On the other hand with someone not using MF it could prove to be incredibly annoying if they're able to bring the groups MF down.

Obviously I'm being incredibly arrogant but it's only because I know if the groups MF if averaged I won't enjoy the game and will probably not even want to play it anymore. Most people are idiots and don't know how to play their characters properly. I've experienced this in WoW when I used to play that. It won't feel like Diablo if I have to worry about other peoples gear to have MF as well as mine. It will only be frustration.
Yes MF is broken, as it always has been (but in a different way than Diablo 2). I think Blizz likes the general concept (less firepower more loot) too much to scrap it.
Having more magic find is completely subjective. The person with the best MF in the party could also have the best damage and utility. You seem to think that gear only has one stat on them.

Your argument makes no sense no matter how you phrase it.


No, your argument makes no sense.
There are finite number of suffixes and prefixes.

Assuming each suffix/prefix either helps your survival or helps your damage, magic find will use one of those slots, offering no meaningful survival or damage increase. Therefore, the argument that MF does nothing for a group holds water.

When grouped, your group must "carry" the stat weight that you allocated to MF rather than survival or damage.

However, once survival has been ensured (through gear or other stats), you could make the argument that replacing survival statistics with MF statistics will have no meaningful contribution to the group, either way. This is the only argument FOR MF that doesn't involve greed and avarice.
11/27/2011 08:04 PMPosted by Seducerer
In my opinion it is a bad idea to average mf throughout the entire group for the following reasons:<br /><br />1. If you are getting paid to rush a low-mid level character through NM or Hell it negatively effects your loots drops. A big reason to spend time rushing people through the game was to be able to find loot on the way through.<br /><br />2. If you are in a public game and the other members of the group just finished leveling up and are noobs with no MF gear equipped. They negatively effect your mf. If it were me I would just leave because I don't want scrubs to waste my time by negating the amount of MF I'm wearing.<br /><br />3. If you are in a public game and someone joins for reasons other than trying to kill stuff with the group. Wouldn't their MF (or lack of MF) hold the group back from finding things?<br /><br />4. If you are in a public game with someone who is only stacking damage-dealing stats and refuses to use any MF. They are negatively effecting my loot drops.<br /><br />It's a two way street. Just because someone is stacking MF doesn't mean they are going to be useless to the group. More than likely they are going to be more useful because they are smart enough to use MF items which will probably show in their ability to use their character. On the other hand with someone not using MF it could prove to be incredibly annoying if they're able to bring the groups MF down.<br /><br />Obviously I'm being incredibly arrogant but it's only because I know if the groups MF if averaged I won't enjoy the game and will probably not even want to play it anymore. Most people are idiots and don't know how to play their characters properly. I've experienced this in WoW when I used to play that. It won't feel like Diablo if I have to worry about other peoples gear to have MF as well as mine. It will only be frustration.


Your whole argument is based on the assumption that MF will be retardedly OP like in Diablo 2, and that therefore everyone SHOULD have MF. That is not how MF is meant to work.
Obviously I'm being incredibly arrogant but it's only because I know if the groups MF if averaged I won't enjoy the game and will probably not even want to play it anymore. Most people are idiots and don't know how to play their characters properly. I've experienced this in WoW when I used to play that. It won't feel like Diablo if I have to worry about other peoples gear to have MF as well as mine. It will only be frustration.


Yes, you are. It's incredibly arrogant.
If you don't like the groups you are in, leave. Why do you feel obligated to group with people you don't know or that you feel are below your skill level?


[b]MF if averaged I won't enjoy the game and will probably not even want to play it anymore.


There's no app for "loneliness", you know. Stop feeling entitled.
What I'd like to see is a % of your group members' MF added to your own. Even if it's like 10% or 20%.

Then it benefits you to help carry your group members, if you feel so inclined to group with random people.

11/27/2011 08:11 PMPosted by Wogrim
Your whole argument is based on the assumption that MF will be retardedly OP like in Diablo 2, and that therefore everyone SHOULD have MF. That is not how MF is meant to work.


Except MF wasn't retardedly OP in Diablo 2. It actually started losing its effect after about 350-400 MF (was a long time ago but I think it was around this amount). My whole argument is that it would cause more grief if everything was averaged than it would if it wasn't. It is worse to have people negatively effect your character than to have people who aren't contributing as much because they aren't killing things as quickly.
11/27/2011 08:17 PMPosted by Korrah
What I'd like to see is a % of your group members' MF added to your own. Even if it's like 10% or 20%. <br /><br />Then it benefits you to help carry your group members, if you feel so inclined to group with random people.<br /><br />


How does this make any logical sense? You're asking for them to give you something for nothing. Maybe we should all get 20% vitality from our group members.
11/27/2011 04:11 PMPosted by Stampy
This dude just got #4 on the dps chart and lost a roll to #7, and is PISSED and spamming the D3 boards with crap, cause nobody on the wow forums cares.<br /><br /><br />Go back to wow. And by the way, since each person sees their own drops, you don't even have an argument.

haha this.
11/27/2011 08:20 PMPosted by Seducerer
How does this make any logical sense? You're asking for them to give you something for nothing. Maybe we should all get 20% vitality from our group members.


It makes sense because if you stack MF, you do less DPS or have less survivability. It's a fact, it's proven. Instead of gemming a +attack gem, you chose to gem a +MF gem.

Here's the argument's basis:
The +attack gem will contribute to your group in added damage.
The +MF gem *should* contribute to your group as well.

And what does it matter to you? You won't see loot drops from other people. You don't have to "compete" with their drops.

So how is that something for nothing? Your group member is trading damage stats for MF stats. Contribute a % of those MF stats to other group members. It doesn't take anything away from anyone, and simply adds to what they already have.

Also, surprise, surprise, it helps to reward GROUP PLAY. Which apparently, people on this forum need to learn how to do. All I read is "mine mine mine", "I did this", and "gimme loot since I'm entitled".


First of all people don't need a reward for group play. They are going to do what they want. Diablo II never had a problem with group play. It depends largely on the type of person that's playing on whether or not they want to group with someone else. Rewarding people for doing nothing is a stupid idea.

Secondly I never mentioned anything about competing with people for their drops. I really don't care what drops for them. I just personally don't like games that reward people for doing nothing.

The people who sacrifices character stats for MF lose the time it takes to kill monsters. The person who sacrifices MF for character stats lose the chance to have something good drop. You shouldn't be rewarded even more for stacking one over the other. This game is about balance. You should be able to choose which one is more worthwhile for your time.
OP = the "wow" factor
11/27/2011 08:50 PMPosted by Seducerer
Secondly I never mentioned anything about competing with people for their drops. I really don't care what drops for them. I just personally don't like games that reward people for doing nothing.


What do you think partying with a group and having large amounts of MF will do? It rewards that person with high MF for having their group "carry" them.

Grats on making my argument for them.
11/27/2011 07:10 PMPosted by MajorMajor
The idea of averaging MF is interesting. One thing I disagree with is your categorization of 'leeches'. If someone has more MF and is doing more damage/utility than the rest of the group, I don't consider him/her a leech at all. Such players would be annoyed at having to carry a group by doing more damage/utility AND having to share his/her MF with everyone else. I think it would make better geared players even more reluctant to group with less geared players.


I think the OP's point is a good one, but that this is as well. I'm not sure there is a hardware solution to the MF leeching problem that will not create comparable problems which the community would just deal with instead.

As such, I'm tempted to believe the simplest solution - just letting the community deal with MF leeching - would be the best.
No, your argument makes no sense.<br />There are finite number of suffixes and prefixes.

Assuming each suffix/prefix either helps your survival or helps your damage, magic find will use one of those slots, offering no meaningful survival or damage increase. Therefore, the argument that MF does nothing for a group holds water.

When grouped, your group must "carry" the stat weight that you allocated to MF rather than survival or damage.

However, once survival has been ensured (through gear or other stats), you could make the argument that replacing survival statistics with MF statistics will have no meaningful contribution to the group, either way. This is the only argument FOR MF that doesn't involve greed and avarice.
This only holds true if every piece of gear already provided all stats that are valuable to the character. The nature of D3 is that a lot of stats just aren't valuable in small quantities. A tiny bit of gold find may add up, but a single item with +5% crit damage isn't all the useful. Technically it ups your damage output, but not in any appreciable way.

The reality is that most everyone is going to be running around in not-perfect gear, meaning a piece of gear with 4 affixes where only 3 of them substantially improve your character is going to be fairly normal. Relative to perfect gear or raw hypothetical, yeah, it's a trade off, but so long as you're not running around in all single-affix blue +MF gear you won't be some hideous drain on the party.

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