Runewords and rares, how I'll miss thee...

General Discussion
Is anyone else slightly disappointed with the disappearance of our dear old runewords & rares and the WoWification of the items? I loved the +other class abilities that LoD brought to D2. It's combined with the pure random awesomeness of rares are what made the game exciting (e.g. everyone having teleport as an option, everyone having basic barbarian shouts available, etc.)

In the top tiers of D2, balance came from diversification in builds and gear available. Now it's going to suffer from the bland homogenized HFCS model that hit WoW with the release of 4.0.

Personally, my favorite character revolved the use of runewords in D2. The nearly unstoppable Ghost Sin (WW / teleport assassin). Granted I'll also miss the use the clear OP unfairness of the glitched gear / old rares in my possession with this standardized system.
In the top tiers of D2, balance came from diversification in builds and gear available


Balance came from the fact that everyone and their grandmothers had an enigma.

In any case, is this a real thread? We saw something exactly like this a while ago, despite its absurdity. Runewords were a bane to D2 and rares will be at least as important to D3 (most likely they'll be FAR more important).

It's very strange you'd talk about homogenization as being a bad thing after explicitly mentioning that everyone having access to teleport and barbarian shouts is a good thing.
Balance and runewords don't belong in the same sentence.

And rares are more valuable than ever. Moreover the randomness from item to item is taken to a new level in D3, for example legendaries would have 2-3 completely random generated mods along with their preset mods (which still roll random numbers).
Define "real thread" for me please.<br /><br />Quite a few potent builds did not rely on enigmas (fortitude, gemmed speed/dmg, the + poison one) though I have to agree is was the most popular.<br /><br />The main message is there's a lot of value being lost by homogenizing the game's content. I'm expressing my current discontent in hopes that if enough people agree, perhaps development in future patches will bring back the flavor to the game.

It's very strange you'd talk about homogenization as being a bad thing after explicitly mentioning that everyone having access to teleport and barbarian shouts is a good thing.


You still had to weigh in a few things when choosing your offhand/switch equipment. In my case I had 2x 3/3/3 claws as the bonuses outweighed the +1 skill and health boost. In the case of enigma, teleportation had very different implications when used as a barb, assassin, paladin, or mage. It allowed for a broadening of viable skill builds from what we had in D2 prior to LoD.
Who knows what they may add to the game year after year..
11/18/2011 11:58 AMPosted by MissFortune
The main message is there's a lot of value being lost by homogenizing the game's content. I'm expressing my current discontent in hopes that if enough people agree, perhaps development in future patches will bring back the flavor to the game.

Nice try, but no.
I'm slightly disappointed with your name. How dare you bring that game into a Blizz franchise.
Define "real thread" for me please.


In this case, a thread not intended to troll - this exact idea (that runewords and rares are gone, and that this is bad) appeared before. Which is strange given that while runewords are indeed gone, rares are MORE prominent than they were in D2.

The main message is there's a lot of value being lost by homogenizing the game's content. I'm expressing my current discontent in hopes that if enough people agree, perhaps development in future patches will bring back the flavor to the game.


This is simply backwards. Bringing back runewords would homogenize the game further. Diablo 3 as a whole, however, has substantially greater build diversity going for it than D2 had.
11/18/2011 12:02 PMPosted by Saigyouji
This is simply backwards. Bringing back runewords would homogenize the game further. Diablo 3 as a whole, however, has substantially greater build diversity going for it than D2 had.


I'd say the only reason you'd see some strange diversity that wasn't as apparent in D2 is because of the ease when changing skills compared to having to create a new one every time in D2.
If you played legit open every once in awhile (i.e. no glitch gear mods) you'd see some creative and fun character builds that were not popular on the b.net servers. This was more of a game mechanics issue due to limitations for characters per account and the time investment.
Also as I mentioned above, the enigma (it brought an option forward as opposed to closing doors like we're seeing now) allowed for many, many, more viable builds than what we had pre-LoD. I'd go as far to say the only two playable builds pre-LoD were amazons and mages... everything else was restrictive, slow, and ineffective.
enigma armors reduced the amount of customiztion.

everyone used an enigma... why not just remove the armor slot and give everyone teleport?

why not remove the barbarian and make him a merc so he can shout for everyone?

giving someone 30 choices and only 1 viable choice is available, any smart person is going to pick the only viable choice.


look at the vitality stat, if you didn't dump more than 99% of your points into vitality you made a mistake, sure you can "customize" your character by dumping everything into the energy stat, but then you'll get 1shot and have even more mana than you had, which you could have chugged potions for anyways. It's not viable to do anything but vitality, so why allow people to make a dumb mistake as to pick something that isn't good?
Edited for spam.
11/18/2011 12:10 PMPosted by MissFortune
I'd go as far to say the only two playable builds pre-LoD were amazons and mages... everything else was restrictive, slow, and ineffective.

This is completely wrong. WW barbs were extremely powerful because WW wasn't based on weapon speed. Bone/Summon Necros and Zealadins were also very effective.

I have yet to see you offer up an explanation of how not having Runewords creates "homogenization", though given that you even used that word I suspect you can't.
11/18/2011 12:11 PMPosted by Fuglypump
everyone used an enigma... why not just remove the armor slot and give everyone teleport?


Rarely did amazons touch the enigma, most paladins rarely used the teleport, many assassins rarely used it as well (speed buff was often more effective in PvE and PvP). This is especially true in PvE where if you had a friend teleport to Baal / other bosses, you could opt for something more damage effective. I'm wondering if you even played D2 pre LoD where it felt like 90% of players were either mages or zons.

11/18/2011 12:11 PMPosted by Fuglypump
look at the vitality stat, if you didn't dump more than 99% of your points into vitality you made a mistake


Amazons had the choice between vital and dex dumps, mages could vital or mana dump, all shield based chars had to plan carefully to maximize block value... EVERYONE had to plan carefully around strength requirements. You're definitely over simplifying the stats system.
If I dine in a classy restaurant, I expect the flavor of my dish to have some contrast. I want rainbows in my mouth. Exotic flavors won't harm my tastebuds. It's alright. Don't be afraid.
11/18/2011 12:17 PMPosted by BaalMangler
I have yet to see you offer up an explanation of how not having Runewords creates "homogenization", though given that you even used that word I suspect you can't.


If you were to take the time, you could map out the vast majority of the skills present and their counter abilities. Much like in WoW. The bonuses offered by special abilities between classes and their mechanics all function in a cookie cutter manner.

Runewords break that trend in that adding a variety of abilities that can't normally be spec'ed for (yes perhaps making it the most popular for one gear spot) creates diversity in that WW + Teleport, Beserk + Teleport, stomp/jump/WC + teleport brought variety, but the classic pure WW, Frenzy, and Conc builds were still viable.

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