Theology in Sanctuary

General Discussion
I was playing a few days ago when it struck me how odd it would be for the Monk to meet Tyreal, Diablo, or any other of the Angels/Demons.

The Monk's faith worships 1001 gods, yet there is no god in Sanctuary, plus the concept of faith in a distant divine get somewhat shaky when you can open a portal to Heaven/Hell and chat with your primordial makers.

At least one NPC in beta references a false god, and Leah is explicitly established as a non-believer. It seems that the true nature of existence in Sanctuary isn't as widely accepted in the game world as it is for the players. We have the whole back story, but the NPCs don't, and even in the scant 20 years since the events of D2 many have dismissed the events as fabrication (though it doesn't help that there are few eyewitnesses due to a paucity of survivors.)

Will Diablo 3 explore the idea of an unbelieving population confronted with undeniable evidence of the Unknown, throwing the world into deep philosophical, theological, and ontological crisis, toppling the status quo and re-writing secular history?
11/30/2011 11:03 AMPosted by Maconha
what if the true 1001 gods are the first nephalem?
It would be an interesting origin of the religion, but the religion would still be false based on its modern orthodoxy. Knowing where the god-king myth among the pharaohs came from doesn't make worshipping the pharaoh ontologically true.

Unless the original Nephalem didn't become mortal and have been hiding from the conflict for the past forever. In that case the Monks would be Right and everyone else would be Wrong.
11/30/2011 11:36 AMPosted by Maconha
The original Nephalem are all dead. They were the first offspring of demon and angel, and the worldstone destroyed the power of the nephalem from generation to generation, thus making them mere humans.<br /><br />And how would everyone else be wrong, if monks 1001 gods were the original nephalem?
Only if the original nephalem were A) still around and B) ascendant in power over the angels and demons.

Though I'm now realizing that we have a poor understanding of the monk's concept of salvation.
I'm curious as to where you're getting the 1001 gods thing. Is this mentioned in game material, or are you thinking of some kind of monk in real life?
11/30/2011 12:04 PMPosted by Carlomagno
I'm curious as to where you're getting the 1001 gods thing. Is this mentioned in game material, or are you thinking of some kind of monk in real life?
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/monk/

Monks embody the will of Ivgorod’s one thousand and one gods in every step and every strike.
Humm, I wrote something about this in the story forums too.

You cannot immediately consider or discount the affects of religion. Each different class or groups of people had their own culture and beliefs. Just like today.

You also forget that it isn't evil vs good. Although sometimes order is considered in the realm of good, in reality, their are aspects that put them in the realm of evil. Therefore, it is Order vs Evil.

A monk could easily believe that both sides are evil. His gods are in the right. That sounds like religious warfare in our past, doesn't it.

In a shallow view of today's different religions, their is a central good and a central evil. It would bold the same for each human cultures. In fact, if heaven isn't the true Good force, each human must therefore believe in something of a Good higher power. Their might be some way that Heave indoctrinates angels but it isn't necessarily where the good people go.

So model it today, either you believe you are Good and reach heaven, Nirvana, higher karma, ect or you go to hell. Or if you have atheist believes, you rot in the ground. And I will say it again, agnostics are silly

Edit, I do apologize for my English. I generally post and then edit, but it seems like the edit function is on the fritz.

So if you need clarification, I would be happy to oblige
The monk religion is likely animist ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animism ), which uses a different concept of 'god' than the one you're thinking of, and is not mutually exclusive with running around/beating up angels/demons, even angels/demons that created you.
11/30/2011 12:31 PMPosted by Halloom
even angels/demons that created you.


Or a belief in another power besides those two whose will created you.
Outside of moral conflict, we, as players and viewers, know the objective truth of Sanctuary's history, creation, and cosmology. It's not a question that religion in Sanctuary is complex and has shaped its people and politics, it's a question of what happens when that history comes in contact with the hard truth of Angels and Demons. The monks of Ivgorod may, possibly, see both sides as evil, but his gods don't exist. How does she handle that revelation?

How does the revelation that Humans are the children of the nephalem impact society?

If more people survive to the end of Diablo 3 than survived D1 and 2 then how will the world integrate an even more widespread supernatural event?

The events of D1 spread only as rumour since most of the inhabitants of Tristram, and all the first hand witnesses, died. The invasion of the Palace at Lut Gholein was presumably suppressed and everything else, outwardly, appeared only to be a conflict with the neighbouring hostiles. The events in Travincal were too widespread, leaving no survivors except an already secretive sect and a traveling merchant. The Barbarians of Areat were also already in the business of keeping secrets, so what happened there stayed there, and the only eyewitnesses were an angel and the five heroes.

From a civilian's point of view everything that's happened to date can be dismissed as madness, rumour, or fabrication on the part of the storyteller.

Hmmm, suddenly it seems very specific that virtually all the creatures around New Tristram are undead, not demons. Will the truth be revealed to the world, or will our heroes again be the only ones in possession of secret truths about the nature of reality...
The belief in and revering of one pantheon does not, necessarily, preclude the understanding that other pantheons may exist.
11/30/2011 12:39 PMPosted by Gumibear
The belief in and revering of one pantheon does not, necessarily, preclude the understanding that other pantheons may exist.


This, and a lot more of this.

You are still discounting the effect of religion and beliefs. If we discovered that the "Big Bang Theory" is what created humans, do you think the world would then be void of religion? Do you believe that humans wouldn't see it as an act of God, Fate, Spirits, ect?

And once again... Angels are not always good! It is order... Therefore, a more holy good power could still exist. If you believe in the Book of Cain, it would be Anu. But once again that could be construed as a religious beliefs and not facts.

More importantly, Evil and Good could go by different names too and images too... You see a demon killing someone, you know it is an evil, spirit, entity or what have you. But it is evil. Nothing in the fact disproves other religious beliefs
some food for thought... interesting! thanks for bringing it up ^^
Edit, I do apologize for my English. I generally post and then edit, but it seems like the edit function is on the fritz.

So if you need clarification, I would be happy to oblige


made perfect sense to me =]

edit: also, i just found out myself, the error you speak of seems to have been fixed overnight! =D
a belief in 1001 gods doesn't leave out a belief in one creative force..the Egyptians may have believed in many gods but they believed in one creative force that spawned those gods ..

Remember the storyline of the game is about the ascension of humanity in sanctuary which is a good reason why the hero's would come from very different backgrounds. to see how the truth gets taken by those trained in very different belief sets.
Well If there where survivors ..or a lot of survivors from the events in the first few games .. they would have very different descritions of what happened based on seeing things from different points and haveing different beliefs on what was happening ..
11/30/2011 03:51 PMPosted by Toyodah
they would have very different descritions of what happened based on seeing things from different points and haveing different beliefs on what was happening ..


Especially since they would classify it differently based on their beliefs and what they were taught.

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