Evidence for level cap increase in Expansion

General Discussion
how bout , dont increase cap , but make the items better, isnt it easier? :|
They kind of have to increase the level cap. Only making the items stronger will just make the game easier and easier as each expansion is released.
To put as bluntly as possible

D3 is built entirely around stats that scale with level to maintain balance. If you change one (Stats or level), changing the other will maintain the balance, failing to do so though will unbalance the entire system. Because the system is built around balancing stats against levels, increasing one without increasing the other would require the entire fundamental system to be redone in order to maintain balance.

I don't personally see them rebuilding the fundamentals of Diablo 3 as several poster in this thread have suggested they do, but that's just me....
Oh I'm sorry, your lvl 60 rare gear that you spent $350 on is now worth $3.50 because the lvl 65 magic items are so much better. Yea... that would go over real well.



this is why i quit wow a while ago, and why ill love D3
Diablo III levels are intended to pace the content, 1-30 in Normal, 30-50 in Nightmare, and 50-60 in Hell. It would stand to reason that were we to release an expansion we'd want additional levels to pace the additional content.

There will absolutely be newer and better items introduced at some point as well, potentially even in patches.
Diablo III levels are intended to pace the content, 1-30 in Normal, 30-50 in Nightmare, and 50-60 in Hell. It would stand to reason that were we to release an expansion we'd want additional levels to pace the additional content.

There will absolutely be newer and better items introduced at some point as well, potentially even in patches.


So following your logic, you will have to release new difficulties, correct? I guess this just means I will never keep my items, I will merely sell them for money, because one day they will be worthless any way.


Level curve per difficulty would likely be adjusted to accommodate additional acts and levels. It really wouldn't even need to be that much.

And that argument is rather silly, but considering that trading is encouraged you're entitled to do whatever you please :)
So following your logic, you will have to release new difficulties, correct? I guess this just means I will never keep my items, I will merely sell them for money, because one day they will be worthless any way.


No, he means new acts, which means each difficulty would be longer. So instead of Normal being levels 1-30, it would have to be more like 1-35 or 40 to compensate for the 5th act, and so on.

Everything else would then have to be bumped up in difficulty for it all to make sense. Old characters at level 60 would likely be able to jump right into Act 5 Hell mode, hopefully finishing at the new level cap so they can return to Inferno mode.
Diablo III levels are intended to pace the content, 1-30 in Normal, 30-50 in Nightmare, and 50-60 in Hell. It would stand to reason that were we to release an expansion we'd want additional levels to pace the additional content.

There will absolutely be newer and better items introduced at some point as well, potentially even in patches.



are you going by the same design philosophy WoW has? in that, you make all the gear you've acquired totally obsolete with new content, come expansion? it might have worked in wow, but in D3 that would be pretty asinine, considering the treasure hunt IS the game.
Diablo III levels are intended to pace the content, 1-30 in Normal, 30-50 in Nightmare, and 50-60 in Hell. It would stand to reason that were we to release an expansion we'd want additional levels to pace the additional content.

There will absolutely be newer and better items introduced at some point as well, potentially even in patches.



are you going by the same design philosophy WoW has? in that, you make all the gear you've acquired totally obsolete with new content, come expansion? it might have worked in wow, but in D3 that would be pretty asinine, considering the treasure hunt IS the game.


yeah i dont like that idea for a diablo game. adding new items over time isnt a bad idea, but obsoleting the old ones is bad


yeah i dont like that idea for a diablo game. adding new items over time isnt a bad idea, but obsoleting the old ones is bad


Did you play D2 and it's expansion? Not only were the items insanely superior after expansion, but you couldn't even play in the same realm as non expansion. I was thinking before they're probably going to add like 1-3 huge acts and expand it onto Hell only, and judging by what Bash said, that looks about right.

*edited to remove other quote
So looking at damage mitigation and Defense the % of damage reduced does scale with monster level. What this means is the higher the level of the monster, the more defense you need to reduce its damage. This is detailed in the character sheet by comparing your current defence and how much damage it reduces based on monsters of your current level. What this implies is that any content (Expansion) that introduces better quality gear will also introduce higher level monsters to compensate for the gear and in turn a higher level cap for the player so we can see a relatively accurate mitigation %.

If not they'll have to revamp the way the defense stat functions into something terribly complicated that involves diminishing returns which is something they'd have to revamp every time they introduce new content (ie every new expansion). It makes much more sense that the content includes higher level monsters, better items and a raised level cap as the stat system is already designed to accommodate this.

Yes, this probably isn't a surprise or a shock, but at least it's some sort of evidence to support what a lot of people are already assuming :p


It's a simple lesson on how to control content consumption.

Lets say each level where player level & gear level = monster level should take 30 minutes to clear. A short area, 10 min, a longer area, maybe 45 min to an hour. Ok, so if the player level is +1 (higher), that time can be reduced by say 10% to 20%. They can graph this and put the stats necessary into the game as a function of level difference. They can say ok, if we alter this ONE stat due to level (i.e. defense) or this group of stats, then over thousands of test games our robot clears x% faster. Ok so they can control content this way. Then they make loot drops for gear by level a certain %, and they have a formula that states on average it will take you 10 min to get to level 2, 15 min to get to level 3, 25 min to get to level 4, a further hour to get 5, a further hour 6, two hours to 7, etc.... they can time it out.

They can even make loot drops on a per-hour basis which means people who farm incessantly will see diminishing returns. And they can smooth it out over a week. Your drops could be pre-ordained by time and spread out over the "next week of playtime" and capped at 1 week (like rest XP) so you would never notice an instant change but you might feel that on some days or weeks more things drop. Theres a billion ways to do it. But yeah, an expansion where things get more difficult, it's trivial to add 5 levels which "automatically means 250 hours of playtime". Then all they have to do is design enough mazes and new monsters that 250 hours isn't boring as hell. Look at Lord of Destruction. 250 hours of playtime? Ok, maybe, sure, over the lifetime of the game, easily. For a product like Diablo III they would obviously be adding much more "content" than lord of destruction did. So 200 to 250 hours of playtime is going to be a better value.

But yeah thats how they do it, essentially, and why. More levels. I can't wait!!!
Diablo III levels are intended to pace the content, 1-30 in Normal, 30-50 in Nightmare, and 50-60 in Hell. It would stand to reason that were we to release an expansion we'd want additional levels to pace the additional content.

There will absolutely be newer and better items introduced at some point as well, potentially even in patches.


Bashiok please for all that is sacred, tell the devs that they shouldn't obsolete the old zones. If they increase the level cap they should introduce a new difficulty (pandemonium?) above inferno for level (?)70 only and all content should be avaible in it.

Don't go the WoW route and obsolete everything, Expansion packs should add content not replace old content with the new one. the more viable end-gmae. You may argue that people leveling alts still experience old content, but it's not the same.

By obsolete I mean making it irrelevant to the end-game and only used for grinding to max level.
01/05/2012 09:38 PMPosted by Hoffdruid
Bashiok please for all that is sacred, tell the devs that they shouldn't obsolete the old zones.
I don't know how you think raising level cap will obsolete old zones. Inferno is meant to always be "beyond the level cap" whatever that level cap is. If we get lvl 70, they'll just raise the monsters in Inferno to lvl 71.
01/05/2012 09:38 PMPosted by Hoffdruid
Bashiok please for all that is sacred, tell the devs that they shouldn't obsolete the old zones.


Why would they obsolete old zones? Say the new level cap is 70, they'll simply add act 5, old 60's will now just start in Act 5 on hell and level from 60-70 and, then move back to Inferno where Blizzard has increased all inferno mobs to level 71. Their system easily handles altering monster levels to keep them balanced for a level 70 character, the stat system scaling already compensates for the improved gear and higher stats so all 5 Acts in Inferno are still very valid zones. Nothing will become obsolete which is the beauty of this new system!
D2 Items
D2 Exp New items
D2 Exp Update, Insane Runewords New Items
D2 next Exp Update, more Runewords (mostly for mid level)
D2 next Exp Update, synergies
D2 next Exp Update, Uber Hunting time, welcome to Torches

Why do people think D2 NEVER upgraded their items and made old ones a bit obsolete?

And sorry if I got updates switched or if they were together,

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