Multi-spec needed.

General Discussion
02/27/2012 01:56 PMPosted by Zofi
Posting a decently well written thread about a possible feature that would assist most people is whining? Lol?


How do you figure that it will assist "most" people. A general rule around here is to not speak for the community when suggesting changes. That aside, I would be against a multi-spec system since it's so easy to change your spec around. By the time you get halfway through hell or so, you will probably be able to know what each skill/rune is and you will be used to the current system. Besides, this would just delay the game some more, and no one wants that!


Most people approve of convenience as long as it doesn't detract from the game in anyway.
I actually have to agree with the OP. If they were to remove being able to change your skills whenever, multi spec would fit a lot better.
02/27/2012 01:55 PMPosted by Tilde
I can't imagine anyone not liking the idea :) I seem to recall hearing something like that as well, but it was quite some time ago. And being that it is something that could be tested in a beta, but as far as I know, it has never been in it. Just got me thinking about.


Have you spent any time reading the forums? There's a wave of mouth-frothing D2 sociopaths screaming that the ability to change skills at any time has destroyed D3 and will end the known universe. And you want to make skill swapping even easier?

Actually, keep pushing this idea. Maybe that throbbing vein in their foreheads will explode. That should be a good show.


To be fair, having a list of pre-set builds in game to swap between does not take away any more "permanence" from the game. So even the people railing on that topic shouldn't automatically be against this. Adding this wouldn't make your char any less permanent.

Edit - after further thought about how this might affect permanence in the game, for me it would actually add to it. I know I will be playing many different builds in D3. When I want to switch between them, having them already set up there in the UI would just make my character feel more, well, "mine".
02/27/2012 01:55 PMPosted by Tilde
I can't imagine anyone not liking the idea :) I seem to recall hearing something like that as well, but it was quite some time ago. And being that it is something that could be tested in a beta, but as far as I know, it has never been in it. Just got me thinking about.


Have you spent any time reading the forums? There's a wave of mouth-frothing D2 sociopaths screaming that the ability to change skills at any time has destroyed D3 and will end the known universe. And you want to make skill swapping even easier?

Actually, keep pushing this idea. Maybe that throbbing vein in their foreheads will explode. That should be a good show.


You're misunderstanding the original purpose of the post.

The post is about IF Blizzard goes through with the new system. What hes doing effects the interface, but not the actual way the skill system functions, in other words AFTER the skill system was already changed.

The new system already allows 15 seconds skill changes. If I were to stop by for 30 seconds to swap all my skills around, WHY would I want to wait for the slowest member of my party to spend 2 minutes changing his?

If we/Blizzard were to want the old system of less skill swapping, it'd be more ideal to just go back to the previous system. If we/Blizzard are going to be using the new system, the system should be as efficient as possible.

02/27/2012 02:31 PMPosted by TianZi


Have you spent any time reading the forums? There's a wave of mouth-frothing D2 sociopaths screaming that the ability to change skills at any time has destroyed D3 and will end the known universe. And you want to make skill swapping even easier?

Actually, keep pushing this idea. Maybe that throbbing vein in their foreheads will explode. That should be a good show.


You're misunderstanding the original purpose of the post.

The post is about IF Blizzard goes through with the new system. What hes doing effects the interface, but not the actual way the skill system functions, in other words AFTER the skill system was already changed.

The new system already allows 15 seconds skill changes. If I were to stop by for 30 seconds to swap all my skills around, WHY would I want to wait for the slowest member of my party to spend 2 minutes changing his?

If we/Blizzard were to want the old system of less skill swapping, it'd be more ideal to just go back to the previous system. If we/Blizzard are going to be using the new system, the system should be as efficient as possible.


See, now you're being rational. That has no place on these forums, or really anywhere on the internet.

Seriously though, it wouldn't surprise me if we eventually got something like this, although if gear choices have a serious impact on build then it might not be all that useful beyond a certain point.
02/27/2012 02:34 PMPosted by syrik
being able to switch skills at any point really makes a multi-spec system so appealing


Being able to change skills at will makes a multi-spec system obsolete.


If you've ever played Team Fortress 2 or perhaps Call of Duty multiplayer, that is what is being talked about here. Yes, you can easily change your spec, but being able to save a couple and be able to switch between them at the click of a button would be awesome.
I like the idea of being able to save a set of skills. That way, when I change things and try out new skills I can go back with the click of a button without writing everything down or forgetting which skill went where.

This would be a nice convenience feature, though I don't see myself using it often.
being able to switch skills at any point really makes a multi-spec system so appealing


Being able to change skills at will makes a multi-spec system obsolete.


I couldn't disagree more. A pre-set system is going to be even more helpful with this new evolution in the genre.
See, now you're being rational. That has no place on these forums, or really anywhere on the internet.

Seriously though, it wouldn't surprise me if we eventually got something like this, although if gear choices have a serious impact on build then it might not be all that useful beyond a certain point.


The issue, as I see it, is that right now GEAR and SKILLS are both too easy to swap.

The problem with this is that it's inevitable that players will swap both gear and skills for encounters that are more difficult. So we can run around with 500% GF farming trash mobs, but need to actually have some combat stats fighting bosses.

The same goes with skills, we can run around with heavy AoE abilities fighting regular mobs, but if a boss is difficult enough, we'd have to use some actually decent single target DPS abilities and some survival abilities so we can actually kill him.

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This brings in the real "issue":

If gear and skill swapping took time, you'd run the risk of that one lazy guy in your Co-op that doesn't change his gear or skills for bosses. He's wearing 500% GF and does sh!t for your group since all he does is spam AOE abilities.

This bring in problem 2. Your group would ask him to change his gear and spec to something useful. He'd take 5 minutes doing it because he doesn't have his skills set, and he has to find his real gear.

The thing is people will naturally want to wear GF/MF gear because it gets them more loot. People will also be AoE ability heavy because they want to clear stuff faster. You can probably get people to swap their skills and gear for a boss though if you ask them. That means IF the swap is going to happen, everyone in the group will like to have it done as fast as possible.

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The real problem is the skill system really messes with the "fast pace" of action RPGs. The easiest fix for pacing would be to revert to a skill system where skills are not easily switchable. That means there is no "stop to change my character to boss mode".

However, in a system that everything can be swapped, it may as well be a 1 button swap so it has the lowest delay on the pace. If the system means people will be changing spec/gear in the middle of a run, it makes sense for it to be a fast change rather then a "wait for the slowest player".
The real problem is the skill system really messes with the "fast pace" of action RPGs. The easiest fix for pacing would be to revert to a skill system where skills are not easily switchable. That means there is no "stop to change my character to boss mode".


For one I am a big fan of the skill system as is(other than wanting a pre-set system in the UI of course). While I see how you are relating it to the topic, kinda jumping waaaaay off topic at the same time as well...


However, in a system that everything can be swapped, it may as well be a 1 button swap so it has the lowest delay on the pace. If the system means people will be changing spec/gear in the middle of a run, it makes sense for it to be a fast change rather then a "wait for the slowest player".


I suppose I agree with the principle of this, but you make it sound rather negative as well lol. But anyway, I guess I agree in theory ;)
02/27/2012 02:37 PMPosted by Tilde
Seriously though, it wouldn't surprise me if we eventually got something like this, although if gear choices have a serious impact on build then it might not be all that useful beyond a certain point.


I don't see why people won't just acquire different sets of gear then. I mean, most of us know the core of the Diablo series is the item hunt. And love 'em or hate 'em, the auction houses will make acquiring gear easier than either of the first 2 games. Not to mention individual drops...nothing liking seeing that perfect axe drop for your barb and seeing some level 20sorc tele in and snatch it up, but I digress...I certainly will have multiple sets of gear for my characters.

I realize people play the game for reasons other than solely the "item hunt". I do as well. Be it PvP or item farming, everything in the Diablo series is great fun :)
I thinks a spec saving feature makes sense in the context of PVE vs. PVP builds. I think you should be able to 'load' a spec or switch specs at will from outside the game (i.e. in the lobby). You can also save a spec when you exit a PVE or PVP game into one of two slots. However, quick swaps in game should not be allowed. I think it bypasses the 6 skill limit to a degree and will feel mandatory for Inferno to eek out every bit of power you can from long cooldown skills.

Part of the reason why it takes 15 seconds is to create a small barrier to dissuade frequent specs (like every couple minutes) to kill faster. Maybe allow saved builds, but it causes every ability to go on cooldown, even if it was no different than what you had slotted there before.
I thinks a spec saving feature makes sense in the context of PVE vs. PVP builds. I think you should be able to 'load' a spec or switch specs at will from outside the game (i.e. in the lobby). You can also save a spec when you exit a PVE or PVP game into one of two slots. However, quick swaps in game should not be allowed. I think it bypasses the 6 skill limit to a degree and will feel mandatory for Inferno to eek out every bit of power you can from long cooldown skills.

Part of the reason why it takes 15 seconds is to create a small barrier to dissuade frequent specs (like every couple minutes) to kill faster. Maybe allow saved builds, but it causes every ability to go on cooldown, even if it was no different than what you had slotted there before.


Ya I'm all for putting restrictions on it if thats what people want. I really don't care either way. I don't plan to "abuse" it if you can even call it that, any type of excessive skill swapping or whatever it is you seem concerned about preventing in the first place. But hey, preventing abuse sounds legit I suppose.

When I picture it with the current UI, I see all skills getting that 15 sec CD when you swap to a new pre-set. I'm thinking this would prevent what you are concerned with?
Ya I'm surprised they didn't have this in right from the start, it just seems natural. Maybe its in the internal full game build? Never know.

It is just the first version of this skill/rune system UI that we've seen in the beta, so improvements are bound to be made.

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